How he'll help the state without cutting spending is a complete mystery to me but he has solid hair
increase taxes on the rich while cutting spending on the wasteful programs. u forget he's having warren buffet as his economic advisor. buffet actually opposed the dividend tax break and bush's most recent tax cuts citing that rich people don't need more riches in these hard times.
the majority of californian's DO NOT want gray davis in office, you could get 15 million+ petitions if you had the time.
with a population of 30million, a $34 billion deficit means davis managed to outspend by over $1000 every man woman and child that lives in california (legally). an average family of 4 means davis has outspent their money by $4000, each family.
even though CA has some of the highest taxes in the country ($2+ per gallon of gas, although i mostly blame oil monopolies and SUV drivers on that)
increase taxes on the rich while cutting spending on the wasteful programs. u forget he's having warren buffet as his economic advisor. buffet actually opposed the dividend tax break and bush's most recent tax cuts citing that rich people don't need more riches in these hard times.
the majority of californian's DO NOT want gray davis in office, you could get 15 million+ petitions if you had the time.
with a population of 30million, a $34 billion deficit means davis managed to outspend by over $1000 every man woman and child that lives in california (legally). an average family of 4 means davis has outspent their money by $4000, each family.
even though CA has some of the highest taxes in the country ($2+ per gallon of gas, although i mostly blame oil monopolies and SUV drivers on that)
How can he 'help' in creating a $38 billion deficit when most of it goes to increased electricity payments bought about by deregulation during Wilson's time? The first year CA had a deficit (2001?), it was $21 billion. During that year, CA paid about the same amount more for electricity. And the national economy is what whats pulling all states down, including CA. There is hardly any state now without a deficit. Because CA is the biggest, economy-wise, naturally it will be affected more. All those CA surpluses before weren't spend on a few rich corporate sponsors like what the Republicans would have done, it was given back to a lot of people like prison guards, state workers, etc... Everybody had a DMV registration dicount because of the surplus.
RanDum72, as you point out some states are in great shape today even given national economic nastiness. Utah and...damn memory failing...a few states in the upper northeast...are doing just fine.
The difference? Fiscal responsibility. Davis mismanaged Cali by greatly overspending during the good times. The fiscally responsible states actually tightened up and/or saved and it paid off. They're great examples of how to budget and proof that bean counters do have a role to play in this life.
The difference? Fiscal responsibility. Davis mismanaged Cali by greatly overspending during the good times. The fiscally responsible states actually tightened up and/or saved and it paid off. They're great examples of how to budget and proof that bean counters do have a role to play in this life.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Originally posted by: LunarRay
When you live in California you expect to pay more. New York is a high tax state and went broke as I remember.
What could be better than living in perpetual sunshine.. well here at least..
Iowa is pretty sunny all year. The sunsets over the fields of corn are pretty breathtaking too
But yeah, big states have big problems due to their big budgets. Spending control is needed at every level of gov't.
CkG
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Originally posted by: CADkindaGUY
Originally posted by: LunarRay
When you live in California you expect to pay more. New York is a high tax state and went broke as I remember.
What could be better than living in perpetual sunshine.. well here at least..
Iowa is pretty sunny all year. The sunsets over the fields of corn are pretty breathtaking too
But yeah, big states have big problems due to their big budgets. Spending control is needed at every level of gov't.
CkG
We have fields of everything in California... if it grows it does so also in CA.
The wine groves are cool too..
BTW this year will be the best in a long time for French wine... order some cases and in 10 yrs you'll have a grand cru.
We'll just increase tax or hope folks go back to work under bush's economic recovery plan.. we are over 10% of the country..
sMiLeYz
Platinum Member
- Feb 3, 2003
- 2,696
- 0
- 76
I'm glad I'm not a Republican, otherwise I would pretty outraged at what my party is doing to the greatest democracy on earth. Gutting it like a pig.
I thought the democrats were bad, but never this bad.
Can't win the hearts and minds of the american people? Steal, lie, cheat, the way to the top. That's the republican way! The real conservatives left went democratic, or liberterian.
What we have left are crazy righties in the Republican party that rather transform America into religious police state than give it to the democrats. .
I thought the democrats were bad, but never this bad.
Can't win the hearts and minds of the american people? Steal, lie, cheat, the way to the top. That's the republican way! The real conservatives left went democratic, or liberterian.
What we have left are crazy righties in the Republican party that rather transform America into religious police state than give it to the democrats. .
They voted Davis in while he was keeping a tight lid on the true extent of California's looming budget disaster so it wouldn't reflect badly upon his administration, harming his chances for re-election.
If the recall is an end-run around the election, its a perfectly constitutional end-run empowering the people to remove an elected official who they no longer want serving them.
But I guess Democrats want to persist in maligning the People of California for duly exercising rights vested in them by their constitution.
Ok, suit yourselves.
CADsortaGUY
Lifer
Seems a bit presumptuous to peg the California situation on rightwing Republicans. Sure the instigator may have been so(for California anyway) but it seems to me that quite a large percentage of Californians support this recall. It'd be hard to paint them all as Republicans, much less "right-wing" Republicans.
*note-I know those weren't your exact words
but classification was needed.CkG
Particularly since California, like Michigan, often elects Republican governors. With vast swaths of Republicans and 'Reagan Democrats' alike, there is a swing vote population for gubernatorial races in both states.
Davis replaced a term-limited Republican. Need I mention California's most famous Republican Governor?
Its not like Republicans are so desperate for the Governor's seat because they have either a) never had it before, or b) have little chance of ever getting it again.
And once again, for the history challenged, constitutional remedies along the likes of recalls and impeachment were intended to be instigated or spear-headed by political oppositions. The reason is simple: an elected official who turned out to be a bona fide criminal would not likely be recalled or impeached if it were up to his own party.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Seems odd that just after the election the Republican Issa started his recall efforts. Did Davis become unwanted that quick.. oh.. the budget that you say he kept a tight lid on... The folks in the legislature knew the state of the revenue as well as anyone else who cared to find out. The energy issue? Maybe so. That hit even the poor and them the hardest. Notwithstanding who really is the ultimate cause. This is another well organized effort to punish Davis for his position on the issues that are more liberal than the conservatives can live with. No matter who is in office the $ move away from social programs toward more conservative policies is the issue, I think and I find it a further slap at the less advantaged among us.
Support for recall drops to 50%
I don't want to sound like a conspiracy-theorist, but how many of you think the recall effort may somehow lead back to the White House? To me at least, this smacks of something Rove would cook up.
I don't want to sound like a conspiracy-theorist, but how many of you think the recall effort may somehow lead back to the White House? To me at least, this smacks of something Rove would cook up.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
- 1
- 0
Get a clue, junior. He was in office for a full term before he was REelected. His gross mismanagement was concealed by the fact that the economy was in the midst of the Internet boom. When the Internet euphoria ended the mess he'd made became clear and was compounded by his very slow and stupid management of the energy crisis. The people of California wanted him out. But Davis has money flowing into his campaign from special interests groups and our insanly liberal media here in Cali LOVES anybody anti-conservative and they managed, with help from Simon himself, to make Bill SImon look like a total ass. EVEN THEN Simon got like 44% of the vote. People would have voted for a lemur in a top hat over Davis, but Simon wasn't even on par with a lemur by the time the election rolled around.
By the way, something like 1/3 those who signed the recall petition were democrats. How do you explain that? A left wing conspiracy?
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Get a clue, junior. He was in office for a full term before he was REelected. His gross mismanagement was concealed by the fact that the economy was in the midst of the Internet boom. When the Internet euphoria ended the mess he'd made became clear and was compounded by his very slow and stupid management of the energy crisis. The people of California wanted him out. But Davis has money flowing into his campaign from special interests groups and our insanly liberal media here in Cali LOVES anybody anti-conservative and they managed, with help from Simon himself, to make Bill SImon look like a total ass. EVEN THEN Simon got like 44% of the vote. People would have voted for a lemur in a top hat over Davis, but Simon wasn't even on par with a lemur by the time the election rolled around.
By the way, something like 1/3 those who signed the recall petition were democrats. How do you explain that? A left wing conspiracy?
They probably were given a free "Viper" alarm system for signing up. That sounds like something Issa would do; being the ex-criminal that he is.
HeroOfPellinor
Lifer
- Dec 27, 2001
- 11,272
- 1
- 0
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Get a clue, junior. He was in office for a full term before he was REelected. His gross mismanagement was concealed by the fact that the economy was in the midst of the Internet boom. When the Internet euphoria ended the mess he'd made became clear and was compounded by his very slow and stupid management of the energy crisis. The people of California wanted him out. But Davis has money flowing into his campaign from special interests groups and our insanly liberal media here in Cali LOVES anybody anti-conservative and they managed, with help from Simon himself, to make Bill SImon look like a total ass. EVEN THEN Simon got like 44% of the vote. People would have voted for a lemur in a top hat over Davis, but Simon wasn't even on par with a lemur by the time the election rolled around.
By the way, something like 1/3 those who signed the recall petition were democrats. How do you explain that? A left wing conspiracy?
They probably were given a free "Viper" alarm system for signing up. That sounds like something Issa would do; being the ex-criminal that he is.
It always boils down to a conspiracy theory doesn't it?
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Get a clue, junior. He was in office for a full term before he was REelected. His gross mismanagement was concealed by the fact that the economy was in the midst of the Internet boom. When the Internet euphoria ended the mess he'd made became clear and was compounded by his very slow and stupid management of the energy crisis. The people of California wanted him out. But Davis has money flowing into his campaign from special interests groups and our insanly liberal media here in Cali LOVES anybody anti-conservative and they managed, with help from Simon himself, to make Bill SImon look like a total ass. EVEN THEN Simon got like 44% of the vote. People would have voted for a lemur in a top hat over Davis, but Simon wasn't even on par with a lemur by the time the election rolled around.
By the way, something like 1/3 those who signed the recall petition were democrats. How do you explain that? A left wing conspiracy?
They probably were given a free "Viper" alarm system for signing up. That sounds like something Issa would do; being the ex-criminal that he is.
It always boils down to a conspiracy theory doesn't it?
Why give out car alarms? They are too expensive and Democratic voters would be just as happy to vote for someone when given
smokes
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Get a clue, junior. He was in office for a full term before he was REelected. His gross mismanagement was concealed by the fact that the economy was in the midst of the Internet boom. When the Internet euphoria ended the mess he'd made became clear and was compounded by his very slow and stupid management of the energy crisis. The people of California wanted him out. But Davis has money flowing into his campaign from special interests groups and our insanly liberal media here in Cali LOVES anybody anti-conservative and they managed, with help from Simon himself, to make Bill SImon look like a total ass. EVEN THEN Simon got like 44% of the vote. People would have voted for a lemur in a top hat over Davis, but Simon wasn't even on par with a lemur by the time the election rolled around.
By the way, something like 1/3 those who signed the recall petition were democrats. How do you explain that? A left wing conspiracy?
They probably were given a free "Viper" alarm system for signing up. That sounds like something Issa would do; being the ex-criminal that he is.
It always boils down to a conspiracy theory doesn't it?
Why give out car alarms? They are too expensive and Democratic voters would be just as happy to vote for someone when given
smokes
Yeah, sure, maybe he gave 'em smokes too. The republicans, on the other hand, were willing to be evil for free.
LunarRay
Diamond Member
- Mar 2, 2003
- 9,993
- 1
- 76
Jerry Brown was in office Davis was his Chief of Staff and the mover of many of the policies Brown believed in. Davis is quite intelligent in his own right with good vision on the realities of California and its needs. We have many low income folks here that rely on the "system" to get by. This may be inconsistent with our current money woes but, these are human lives that must be considered. It has been an easy act to balance with strong economic conditions and not so easy today. There is no fast cure other than economic stimulus in the right places. No Governor can make the reality disappear. We have to live through it and those who can pay must pay and in the meantime harass the Congress to adopt policies that insure the nation recognizes not all its people can make it if more budget cuts are enacted..
that article just shows what sore losers democrats are.
1) clinton was impeached because he lied under oath. im not sure if this warranted him being removed but i certainly understand the position of those that wanted him removed. unlike democrats, i understand the meaning of integrity and dont believe in vast right wing conspiracies.
2) in forlida the republicans were the only ones fighting FOR democracy. gore was pushing for libral vote standards in counties that supported him, and not pushing these same standards in counties that were bush strongholds. he wanted the overseas military vote thrown out despite the fact that these folks had no control over when their ballots got to them and the speed in which the ballots returned to florida. then there was the democratic led florida supreme court which IGNORED every florida law designed to make sure the vote count process was accurate. and lets not forget that there were numerous recounts, triggered both by law and at the request of Gore. bush was the winner each and every time
3) Texas - so when democrats redraw redistricting lines thats OK but when republicans try to do it its unfair? absurd.
4) California - one of the few things that is agreed upon by republicans and democrats is that gay davis needs to go. something like 30% of the collected signatures were by democrats. davis' approval rating in april conducted by California Field Poll was 24% - the lowest percentage since the polling started 55 years ago. and what is so wrong with holding someone accountable for their actions? he is a horrible govenor and the people are now saying "GET OUT!" although i do believe the recall process needs to be reformed, the process represents democracy in its purist form.
1) clinton was impeached because he lied under oath. im not sure if this warranted him being removed but i certainly understand the position of those that wanted him removed. unlike democrats, i understand the meaning of integrity and dont believe in vast right wing conspiracies.
2) in forlida the republicans were the only ones fighting FOR democracy. gore was pushing for libral vote standards in counties that supported him, and not pushing these same standards in counties that were bush strongholds. he wanted the overseas military vote thrown out despite the fact that these folks had no control over when their ballots got to them and the speed in which the ballots returned to florida. then there was the democratic led florida supreme court which IGNORED every florida law designed to make sure the vote count process was accurate. and lets not forget that there were numerous recounts, triggered both by law and at the request of Gore. bush was the winner each and every time
3) Texas - so when democrats redraw redistricting lines thats OK but when republicans try to do it its unfair? absurd.
4) California - one of the few things that is agreed upon by republicans and democrats is that gay davis needs to go. something like 30% of the collected signatures were by democrats. davis' approval rating in april conducted by California Field Poll was 24% - the lowest percentage since the polling started 55 years ago. and what is so wrong with holding someone accountable for their actions? he is a horrible govenor and the people are now saying "GET OUT!" although i do believe the recall process needs to be reformed, the process represents democracy in its purist form.
We are not kidding, there are several states that do not require ID to vote. The arizona govenor just killed a bill to make ID required for voting. Georgia recently passed such a law.
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