Study: Same situation blacks more likely to be shot then whites

[lotus503]

When I think of lack of equal justice, I don't really consider who is more likely to get shot.

That in my mind is looking at the problem too far down the road. Why are the statistics surrounding black crime what they are?

Partially the prison industrial complex lobbying for Law that unfairly targets minorities.
Look at statistical sentencing for white people caught with an 8 ball of blow vs. Black people caught with an 8th of crack.

The fact remains the biggest issues reside within black culture, but its hard to take a good hard look at that as the problem when you have real racial issues the blame everything on.

I feel like as a society we have got to make things fair to remove the ability to make excuses.


I've watched damn near every episode of the 1st 48, and id wager 95% of the people that were murdered were engaged in some high risk behavior.

Gangbanging
Whoring
Drug using
Drug dealing
Stealing

Michael Brown for example was engaged in at least 3 of the 5 listed, yet everyone is shocked when he gets killed, I would go as far to say his life ending violently was damn near inevitable.

 

[piasabird]

Equal justice for equal crime. Blacks tend to be more violent.

 

[emperus]

I'm most likely to get away with most anything and do. I'm white, clean cut, smell good, trusting smile, dress appropriately and can speak coherent and clear english..sometimes with some wit. I have even always managed to walk away from bar fights without throwing or taking a single punch. How you behave and present yourself truly does wonders.

And the 12 year old who gets shot because he was playing with a toy gun should have done what?

I stayed away from this thread and am happy I did. Racism and stupidity do go hand in hand.

 

[highland145]

Racism and stupidity do go hand in hand.

QFT

 

[peonyu]

Blacks commit 7-10x more crime than White people do, so of course the Police will "profile" Black people more. And that is just the honest truth of the matter, and the FBI crime statistics back it up. If race were truely the end-all-be-all of how the Police operate then Asians and Latinos would be targeted just as often but its not the case. Asians actually are stopped / harassed LESS than white people usually. Of course Whites commit crime to, but if it is your JOB [Police] to day in and day out fight crime, and 9 times out of 10 when you are called to a crime scene, the perp is black...Well no shit there is going to be a tendency to target that group.

Thats not the Polices fault its the Black communities fault.

 

[Brainonska511]

Blacks commit 7-10x more crime than White people do, so of course the Police will "profile" Black people more. And that is just the honest truth of the matter, and the FBI crime statistics back it up. If race were truely the end-all-be-all of how the Police operate then Asians and Latinos would be targeted just as often but its not the case. Asians actually are stopped / harassed LESS than white people usually. Of course Whites commit crime to, but if it is your JOB [Police] to day in and day out fight crime, and 9 times out of 10 when you are called to a crime scene, the perp is black...Well no shit there is going to be a tendency to target that group.

Thats not the Polices fault its the Black communities fault.

You're just a racist apologist. The black community has been systematically discriminated against, disenfranchised, given heavier sentences for equal crimes, and having to deal with stop and frisk crap all the time. As well as more likely to be impoverished - the deck has been stacked against them.

 

[OverVolt]

..

 

[HomerJS]

Equal justice for equal crime. Blacks tend to be more violent.

As for the former blacks and white rate equal in pot consumption yet blacks are 10x more likely to be jailed.

As for the latter your assertions black people are more inherently more violent. Find an area in which middle-upper class blacks live are they more violent then whites??

As for economic impact of crime I'm sure whites have blacks beat 50-1. Hell the economic meltdown in 2007 alone cost us trillions.

 

[peonyu]

You're just a racist apologist. The black community has been systematically discriminated against, disenfranchised, given heavier sentences for equal crimes, and having to deal with stop and frisk crap all the time. As well as more likely to be impoverished - the deck has been stacked against them.

Black people have had it bad in the past but times change. The excuse of "racism" that some black people yell for seemingly EVERYTHING bad that happens is really really really old now, what truth it still has is being drowned out by the liars who just want to yell racist for everything. Its like the Boy who cried Wolf.

And coddling that demographic doesnt help anyone. Id rather be a racist apologist than to be a inept enabler who helps to enable a large part of the black population to be content to blame all of their [self-made] problems on white people, and enable them to stay on welfare all their lives AND [yes AND] teach yet another generation of children how to abuse the system and be lowlifes.

Also, black people are one of MANY groups that have had hardships in this country. Having hardship as a group is no excuse for burning down businesses/your own neighborhood like what happened in Ferguson, nor is it a valid excuse for their crime rate being so ridiculously high [almost 50% of crime in this nation is from the black community and that community is only 12% of our population]...

 

[HomerJS]

Black people have had it bad in the past but times change. The excuse of "racism" that some black people yell for seemingly EVERYTHING bad that happens is really really really old now, what truth it still has is being drowned out by the liars who just want to yell racist for everything. Its like the Boy who cried Wolf.

And coddling that demographic doesnt help anyone. Id rather be a racist apologist than to be a inept enabler who helps to enable a large part of the black population to be content to blame all of their [self-made] problems on white people, and enable them to stay on welfare all their lives AND [yes AND] teach yet another generation of children how to abuse the system and be lowlifes.

Also, black people are one of MANY groups that have had hardships in this country. Having hardship as a group is no excuse for burning down businesses/your own neighborhood like what happened in Ferguson, nor is it a valid excuse for their crime rate being so ridiculously high [almost 50% of crime in this nation is from the black community and that community is only 12% of our population]...

Based on what I highlighted do you believe blacks and whites are treated equally by the criminal justice system??

BTW - Completely agree on burning/looting. Doesn't help anyone. NYC is an example of the way to handle it.

 

[peonyu]

Based on what I highlighted do you believe blacks and whites are treated equally by the criminal justice system??

BTW - Completely agree on burning/looting. Doesn't help anyone. NYC is an example of the way to handle it.

Im sure there are times when black people are treated worse and singled out. But I dont think its anywhere near as bad as the press makes it seem like [you would think we still live in the 1960s if you believed pro-black groups or the media]. The issue in Ferguson imo was the kid's fault, the way that community reacted is ridiculous. The choking death in NYC is fucked up, I thought the same when it happened to. I dont know if he was choked to death for just being black though - thats a tough one to prove, but its just so easy to take it and run with it and make headlines and money from it by saying its simply racism and the cop wanted to kill a black man that day.

But if I was forced to give a straight answer I would say they are treated equally most of the time and rarely they are not [just like most Americans btw, black/white and others]. Most police are just there doing a job like me and you and dont care if the person is green or white or something else, they just want to make it through the day without being shot to death. I think Darren Wilson is the latter btw. Our justice system has a ton of pressure on it to NOT be racist, especially now. It just cant be as bad as the media makes it out to be. If anyone [white] were to show a tiny morsel of racism im sure their butts would be out the door in a hurry, its just the way our society is nowadays [so much so that a black person crying racism makes national headlines as though we are on Defcon 1 and the world is about to end, think about it].

 

[HomerJS]

Im sure there are times when black people are treated worse and singled out. But I dont think its anywhere near as bad as the press makes it seem like [you would think we still live in the 1960s if you believed pro-black groups or the media]. The issue in Ferguson imo was the kid's fault, the way that community reacted is ridiculous. The choking death in NYC is fucked up, I thought the same when it happened to. I dont know if he was choked to death for just being black though - thats a tough one to prove, but its just so easy to take it and run with it and make headlines and money from it by saying its simply racism and the cop wanted to kill a black man that day.

But if I was forced to give a straight answer I would say they are treated equally most of the time and rarely they are not [just like most Americans btw, black/white and others]. Most police are just there doing a job like me and you and dont care if the person is green or white or something else, they just want to make it through the day without being shot to death. I think Darren Wilson is the latter btw. Our justice system has a ton of pressure on it to NOT be racist, especially now. It just cant be as bad as the media makes it out to be. If anyone [white] were to show a tiny morsel of racism im sure their butts would be out the door in a hurry, its just the way our society is nowadays [so much so that a black person crying racism makes national headlines as though we are on Defcon 1 and the world is about to end, think about it].

If you look at the pot usage vs arrest statistics you might reconsider.

If you read the U of C study results and reactions aligned with race of alleged perp.

 

[cubby1223]

I make this addition to the current back & forth discussion...

The disparities in law enforcement statistics absolutely are not anywhere near validating even a suggestion that black lives have no value in this country, I'm referencing the statement recently put out by the Congressional Black Caucus.
http://cbc.fudge.house.gov/press-re...tatement-on-the-ferguson-grand-jury-decision/

The whole discussion, while necessary, must be brought back within the realm of reality, otherwise things may get a lot worse in the future. These incidents are having a larger effect than I had thought they would, these discussions are popping up in places they've never been before. But the discussions are not productive. It's anger more than anything else, on all sides. And it's being fueled in large part by an arrogant and disrespectful dismissal of reality.

Most topics come and go, this one may actually have staying power. But the conversations must stay within the confines of reality, so that anger will not prevail. We do not want anger to prevail. The nation is at attention more than they ever have been before. Those in leadership roles need to reign in the outlandish statements before the opportunity is lost.

Just my humble opinion

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I make this addition to the current back & forth discussion...

The disparities in law enforcement statistics absolutely are not anywhere near validating even a suggestion that black lives have no value in this country, I'm referencing the statement recently put out by the Congressional Black Caucus.
http://cbc.fudge.house.gov/press-re...tatement-on-the-ferguson-grand-jury-decision/

The whole discussion, while necessary, must be brought back within the realm of reality, otherwise things may get a lot worse in the future. These incidents are having a larger effect than I had thought they would, these discussions are popping up in places they've never been before. But the discussions are not productive. It's anger more than anything else, on all sides. And it's being fueled in large part by an arrogant and disrespectful dismissal of reality.

Most topics come and go, this one may actually have staying power. But the conversations must stay within the confines of reality, so that anger will not prevail. We do not want anger to prevail. The nation is at attention more than they ever have been before. Those in leadership roles need to reign in the outlandish statements before the opportunity is lost.

Just my humble opinion

I must say that when I'm told I either find one way or another on a particular issue or else I am someone who has utter disregard for black lives I'm not inclined to go along with that bullying.

I don't intimidate well, and it makes it harder to be sympathetic. I expect a great many others are tired of being tagged as racists for holding that everyone is entitled to proper treatment.

 

[ctbaars]

A question being asked with the rash of unarmed black males being shot/killed, would the result change if the victim was white.
...

Very true. True no matter the shooters skin color, including black.
Black waiters get lower tips than white waiters too; from any color patron, including black.
What does it mean and what do we do about it?
(Source: Freakonomics)
This is not an original study.

 

[HomerJS]

I make this addition to the current back & forth discussion...

The disparities in law enforcement statistics absolutely are not anywhere near validating even a suggestion that black lives have no value in this country, I'm referencing the statement recently put out by the Congressional Black Caucus.
http://cbc.fudge.house.gov/press-re...tatement-on-the-ferguson-grand-jury-decision/

The whole discussion, while necessary, must be brought back within the realm of reality, otherwise things may get a lot worse in the future. These incidents are having a larger effect than I had thought they would, these discussions are popping up in places they've never been before. But the discussions are not productive. It's anger more than anything else, on all sides. And it's being fueled in large part by an arrogant and disrespectful dismissal of reality.

Most topics come and go, this one may actually have staying power. But the conversations must stay within the confines of reality, so that anger will not prevail. We do not want anger to prevail. The nation is at attention more than they ever have been before. Those in leadership roles need to reign in the outlandish statements before the opportunity is lost.

Just my humble opinion

I'll start. In the US as a whole across almost all parts of the criminal justice systems blacks are treated worse then whites. There is not equal justice under the law

 

[cubby1223]

I'll start. In the US as a whole across almost all parts of the criminal justice systems blacks are treated worse then whites. There is not equal justice under the law

Here is the other side to think about.

Do you want this momentum that's begun to be the next Occupy Wallstreet? A lot of protests but in the end nothing accomplished?

The image of this movement is not the chokehold in NYC, or the shooting in Cleveland, it's the burning businesses of Ferguson fueled by deceit and manipulation by African-Americans in positions of leadership. It is that senseless violence and destruction that took place in that community which can no longer be spun into a narrative of blame on racist whites nor militarized police.

This movement has a lot of rhetoric that does not match reality, and I highlighted one such claim made by one of highest positions of leadership in this nation. You can scream all you want about these statistics, your voice is being drowned out by the louder nonsense going on. (and believe me, my voice isn't adding anything of consequence either way)


It's an uphill battle if this movement's target goal is support of the majority of this country. And time is not on your side. The longer time passes, the more the realities of the Ferguson situation will sink in. The other option is a power-move. Annoy, irritate, piss off people long enough until the government gives into your demands out of frustration, not out of compassion.

This movement is being pursued on the belief that the means are inconsequential if the end is achieved. I don't believe any of us are going to find real justice and equality at the end of that path.

But, best of luck to you. If this movement makes an about-face and begins recognizing the truths about the situations we have witnessed, and the truths of future examples to come, for sure I will be more enthusiastic about supporting it.

 

[DigDog]

Study: Same situation lions more likely to be shot than chihuahuas

 

[HomerJS]

Here is the other side to think about.

Do you want this momentum that's begun to be the next Occupy Wallstreet? A lot of protests but in the end nothing accomplished?

The image of this movement is not the chokehold in NYC, or the shooting in Cleveland, it's the burning businesses of Ferguson fueled by deceit and manipulation by African-Americans in positions of leadership. It is that senseless violence and destruction that took place in that community which can no longer be spun into a narrative of blame on racist whites nor militarized police.

This movement has a lot of rhetoric that does not match reality, and I highlighted one such claim made by one of highest positions of leadership in this nation. You can scream all you want about these statistics, your voice is being drowned out by the louder nonsense going on. (and believe me, my voice isn't adding anything of consequence either way)


It's an uphill battle if this movement's target goal is support of the majority of this country. And time is not on your side. The longer time passes, the more the realities of the Ferguson situation will sink in. The other option is a power-move. Annoy, irritate, piss off people long enough until the government gives into your demands out of frustration, not out of compassion.

This movement is being pursued on the belief that the means are inconsequential if the end is achieved. I don't believe any of us are going to find real justice and equality at the end of that path.

But, best of luck to you. If this movement makes an about-face and begins recognizing the truths about the situations we have witnessed, and the truths of future examples to come, for sure I will be more enthusiastic about supporting it.

As for the protests not sure if you are condemning protests or protests for this reason. I seem to recall Tea Party rallies trolling the White House with confederate flags and protestors spitting on congressman. The destruction in Ferguson did nothing but ruin businesses and give people an excuse to posture "see look at those people". Legitimate concerns are muted by the actions of criminal element a lot of them I suspect just looking for an excuse to loot and burn. Protests in NY and other cities after the Garner decision are doing it correctly. People are taking to the streets organically because the see a grave problem in this country. It didn't take some super-pac bussing a bunch of people in town faking a grass roots rally.

As for what do they/I want, at a high level equal justice under the law would be nice. I like how you term that "giving in to your demands". If that were to happen there would be people crowing "see the progress we have made". If you think for a second its laughable.

Protests get attention but longer term results will happen when people mobilize at the voting booth.

 

[moonbogg]

This is because inner city gang culture produces dangerous people. Most of them happen to be black in this country. Go to central America and you will find far more dangerous people.

 

[cubby1223]

I seem to recall Tea Party rallies trolling the White House with confederate flags

A small subset of a small subset.

and protestors spitting on congressman.

If I recall correctly, the claim they were spat on was debunked as false. The accusation was made nearing the passing of Obamacare, and was used to reference the passage of the civil rights act as a group of African-Americans were walking past crowds outside the Capitol building.

The destruction in Ferguson did nothing but ruin businesses and give people an excuse to posture "see look at those people". Legitimate concerns are muted by the actions of criminal element a lot of them I suspect just looking for an excuse to loot and burn. Protests in NY and other cities after the Garner decision are doing it correctly. People are taking to the streets organically because the see a grave problem in this country. It didn't take some super-pac bussing a bunch of people in town faking a grass roots rally.

There are more people in this country than activist liberals and TEA Partiers. A lot more. And the goal should not be to just be slightly more moral & presentable than something you find horrible on the end of "the other side".

I don't believe the message of the protests is coming across. That's why I believe those in leadership positions need to reign in their comments, not make outlandish claims. Because it is very easy for the message of the entire package to come across as "give me more handouts." That's not the message these protests are saying to me, but that's because I subject myself to the news and to forums like this, read and take in opinions like yours, more than most others. The Garner decision came too soon after the Ferguson riots.

Here in Chicago protestors were blocking city streets from traffic last night, and trying to make their way onto the highway towards Soldier Field where the NFL game was being held. The broadcast news stations (read: not Fox News) covered the protests as if it were a nuisance we just have to wait out, rather than a passionate & desperate struggle for justice & equality.

As for what do they/I want, at a high level equal justice under the law would be nice. I like how you term that "giving in to your demands". If that were to happen there would be people crowing "see the progress we have made". If you think for a second its laughable.

Al Sharpton just came out with a press conference announcing his plan for the federal government to be in control of grand jury proceedings within states. That's his demand.

The same federal government who gifted us the Patriot Act. NSA spying. Warrantless wiretapping. Waterboarding. Warrantless drone killing of U.S. citizens. I pulled on some extreme examples near the end, you get the point. If we don't act with honesty in what we say and do, how can we expect others to treat us better?

At least with the federal government in control, we will all be oppressed equally without regard to skin-color

Protests get attention but longer term results will happen when people mobilize at the voting booth.

Change at the voting booth requires greater citizen support. If you've caught it in other past threads, I openly admit I don't vote. So you don't have to worry about me voting against your desires. The job is to then convince as many as you can in the most efficient way you can that you stand for honesty and have passionate pressing concern.


Your style of argument is still along the lines of "I'm right because some other people are wrong." It's just not an argument I can respect. What is the difference between "I'm right because some in the TEA Party say crazy things," and "I'm right because some in the Congressional Black Caucus say crazy things"? I appreciate your passion for the underlying statistics, the underlying issues, but the individuals in this country need to have productive conversations about solutions, rather than discussions about how bad other people are.

I have to answer for what some extremists within the TEA Party say and do, you have to answer for what some extremists on your "side" say and do. And I don't have anything to do with any TEA Party group.

 

[cubby1223]

This is because inner city gang culture produces dangerous people. Most of them happen to be black in this country. Go to central America and you will find far more dangerous people.

The conjoining problem is the inner city gang members strongly enforce a code of silence within the communities they live in.

 

[piasabird]

I live in an area in Southern Illinois where I see a big difference socially and economically depending which town you live in. It is across the Mississippi river from St Louis, MO in Southern Illinois. About 10 miles away is a town with the county capital and it has a lot of well-off people living there. However, in my area which is closer to the Mississippi river, there are a lot of poor white people who live in this area. A couple towns over there are more black people living in that area. In southern Illinois the main common factor is a lot of people are poor some of them living off of welfare. The liberals in Illinois have raised taxes and most of the good paying union jobs have disappeared. It seems there are just too many people and no jobs and we keep letting people import goods from China. This country really needs to promote American Made Goods from Cars to shoes. Every time you buy foreign goods or import foreign h1b visa holders for technology jobs that is putting our brothers and sisters out of work. We need to seriously consider what we are doing as a country.

 

[Victorian Gray]

The conjoining problem is the inner city gang members strongly enforce a code of silence within the communities they live in.

Sounds like the police.