• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Study finds Voter ID laws would reduce voting by 19-29 yo minorities by up to 700,000

Page 2 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Jan 25, 2011
16,083
7,571
146
Notwithstanding the fact that your comments make little sense, U.S. population? Did you mean citizens? You have to be a citizen to vote so you can't count illegals in any percentage with no ID. But as I said, you drew some kind of bizarro world parallel that makes no sense whatsoever.
An analysis by the Brennan Center for Justice at New York University's law school found that 11 percent of Americans lack a government-issued photo ID such as a passport, driver's license, state ID card or military ID.
Any other bullshit you want to throw out now? Are you discrediting the Brennan Center's statement as including illegals? Do you have supporting evidence of this or just your usual nonsense?
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
Curious how the people in the study are able to obtain a job, rent a place to live, own a bank account or a credit card. Surely, the lack of these things are of more concern than worrying about their ability to vote every so often, amiright?
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
Is there anything else in the constitution that should be denied if it's not exercised or just someone's choice to vote?
What do you mean anything else? The right to vote isn't in the constitution.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,670
6
0
Curious how the people in the study are able to obtain a job, rent a place to live, own a bank account or a credit card. Surely, the lack of these things are of more concern than worrying about their ability to vote every so often, amiright?
Especially since for 18-29 year olds you lose the well they set their bank account up 30 years ago when you did not need ID excuse :D
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,599
5
0
Is there anything else in the constitution that should be denied if it's not exercised or just someone's choice to vote?
300m people living in america

300M go hungry every day.

How many of those actually are starving or just have not eaten a meal.

Numbers can be twisted based on what the objective is.

A better test would be to count the number of people that have an ID this election that vote.

Then some decent baseline can exist; not just an estimate of how many people over 18 do not have an ID.

I can count 5 extended family members that can vote, but do not. One does not have a state issued ID.

Does this indicate that there could be 20% voter suppression in this sampling because the ID does not exist.

It shows that there is 5 people that choose not to vote that are eligible.
there is actually 0% suppression because the one that does not have an ID chooses to not vote anyhow.

But both numbers are correct - it all depends on what the intended outcome of the #s are.
 

dank69

Lifer
Oct 6, 2009
26,209
6,267
136
Seems like we might need to look at what the hindrance is in actually getting an ID.. The bigger issue here might be why so many citizens don't have one.

Voting laws aside, how can you begin to expect to participate in modern society (in any western country) without one. You need it for literally everything else BUT voting.

...
I agree. I think we should make a law that all people should have to carry ID on them at all times or be thrown in jail. Or over the border if they aren't white.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
And in a competing study, those without an ID are well under 1% of the population.

The number of people without proper ID in Pennsylvania is also not nearly as large as voter-ID critics claim. State officials testified that it was under 1 percent. That&#8217;s in line with court findings in recent ID cases and an American University analysis of three states, which found that fewer than one-half of 1 percent of people lacked ID. Critics claim that the state of Pennsylvania found that 758,000 registered voters lacked a Department of Motor Vehicles ID, but those numbers do not tell the whole story. Over l67,000 were inactive voters who hadn&#8217;t seen a polling place in at least five years. Many others may have other forms of acceptable identification ranging from passports to military IDs to government-employee IDs to cards issued by nursing homes or assisted-living facilities.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/314273/voter-fraud-keystone-state-john-fund?pg=2
 

Pens1566

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2005
7,557
671
126
Especially since for 18-29 year olds you lose the well they set their bank account up 30 years ago when you did not need ID excuse :D
I opened a new account last year without an ID. Online. In another state. Major regional bank.
 

Todd33

Diamond Member
Oct 16, 2003
7,842
2
81
? The 14th Amendment doesn't give you the right to vote. Not sure what you are trying to say by posting that link but it doesn't refute my original statement.
So no one can vote? It is in the Constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voting_rights_in_the_United_States

These extensions state that voting rights cannot be denied or abridged based on the following:
Birth - "All persons born or naturalized" "are citizens" of the U.S. and the U.S. State where they reside (14th Amendment, 1868)
"Race, color, or previous condition of servitude" - (15th Amendment, 1870)
"On account of sex" - (19th Amendment, 1920)
In Washington, D.C., presidential elections after 164 year suspension by U.S. Congress (23rd Amendment, 1961)
(For federal elections) "By reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax" - (24th Amendment, 1964)
(For state elections) Taxes - (Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections, 383 U.S. 663 (1966))
"Who are eighteen years of age or older, to vote, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or by any state on account of age" (26th Amendment, 1971).
In addition, the 17th Amendment provided for the direct election of United States Senators.
The "right to vote" is explicitly stated in the U.S. Constitution in the above referenced amendments but only in reference to the fact that the franchise cannot be denied or abridged based solely on the aforementioned qualifications. In other words, the "right to vote" is perhaps better understood, in layman's terms, as only prohibiting certain forms of legal discrimination in establishing qualifications for suffrage. States may deny the "right to vote" for other reasons.
So unless a citizen somehow doesn't qualify, he or she cannot be kept from voting. Of course the right would love to limit it, all those undeserving low life non-white people out there.
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
29,793
3,309
126
I have trouble feeling sympathy for those who claim to be unable to find a DMV, but can find the ballot box.
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,941
126
I have trouble feeling sympathy for those who claim to be unable to find a DMV, but can find the ballot box.
Not that this issue affects her, but I know someone who lives a good 15mi from a DMV, but could host a polling place in her house.

Fucking with people's ability to participate in their government doesn't really compare to all the other issues people bring up that tend to rely on ID.

For this republic to function at its best, everyone needs to have that ability to participate with the fewest hurdles in place as possible.



If all this focus was on registration fraud at least it'd be where it might actually do some good. The idea of in-person voter fraud as an actual problem is a strawman at a national level, and potentially cover for an insidious disenfranchisement effort.
 

thraashman

Lifer
Apr 10, 2000
10,909
1,057
126
Curious how the people in the study are able to obtain a job, rent a place to live, own a bank account or a credit card. Surely, the lack of these things are of more concern than worrying about their ability to vote every so often, amiright?
Especially since for 18-29 year olds you lose the well they set their bank account up 30 years ago when you did not need ID excuse :D
Lets see, the I-9 form for jobs doesn't require a photo id. It is fully possible to meet hte requirements of it without one. It is possible to set up a bank account without an ID, I set up my first one prior to being of an age where I would have an ID and I set up an online one without an ID. Renting a place would depend on how you did it, for example I had a roommate living with me and paying me rent at my place for 3 years and I never once saw his ID.

And in addition, not one of those things is a Constitutionally guaranteed right.

It is absolutely disgusting the mental gymnastics conservatives go through to justify voter suppression. It's not like it's a secret that these laws disproportionately suppress voters to stopping any form of voter fraud. The absolute lowest estimate I've been able to get from all the sources is 80:1, that's 80 legal voters disenfranchised to 1 fraudulent vote stopped. And that's using super generous estimates of fraud and super conservative estimates of suppression. Most of the numbers put it at between 50k:1 or 250k:1.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
14,536
7,592
146
I have trouble feeling sympathy for those who claim to be unable to find a DMV, but can find the ballot box.
True or False

Citizens over the age of 18 can vote in this country.

Citizens are still citizens even without ID.

Citizens need your sympathy to vote.
 

chucky2

Lifer
Dec 9, 1999
10,038
36
86
Every time these threads come up on voter ID, I cannot help but wonder what the real motivation behind not supporting - or at least, not blocking - the effort comes from?

It's clear that a properly implemented voter ID/state ID/national ID system would not only slightly increase the amount of government workers needed to implement such a system, and as such, those on the left just came in their pants at that thought.

It's also clear that such a properly implemented system would pose basically zero hindrance to those voting, given that they hold their vote so dear, would make sure to get their freely provided ID card well ahead of the elections.

What then is the reason for so much pushback? If people whose vote is so vitally important are going to be making sure they have their free ID (and that would include the proper code that goes with that ID for their online cast absentee ballot, no more paper ballots in such a system), and they have weeks/months/years to accomplish this simple task before the election, what exactly is the massive problem?

It can't be that this will add government overhead, as - generally - the people arguing against such an ID system cream in their pants at the thought of more government. Exactly what is the problem?

Chuck
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
14,536
7,592
146
You have a right to keep and bear arms, have you ever tried to buy a gun without a picture ID?
Good point and as so aptly shown in this thread there are probably people who have guns that don't have any ID.

So I propose we lobby for a new law where all gun owners are required to show valid photo ID every 5 years at the DMV or face felony charges.
 

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,833
1
0
I have trouble feeling sympathy for those who claim to be unable to find a DMV, but can find the ballot box.
Fortunately this is America and the right to vote isn't subject to your "sympathy", which let's face it, is really your way of saying you don't believe certain types of people should be allowed to vote.
 

xBiffx

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2011
8,232
2
0
I presented no picture ID. Which is what we're discussing.
We are discussing ID. State supplied ID to be specific. Yes, most of these forms have a picture on them. But the pertinent information most of the time isn't your mug.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY