Students punished for defending themselves against burglar

madoka

Diamond Member
Jun 22, 2004
4,344
712
121
That's what they get for not inviting the burglar into their home to have his way with whatever he wanted from them.

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Two Gonzaga University students are on indefinite probation for pulling out a gun when an intruder allegedly tried to force his way into their university-owned apartment.

Erik Fagan and Dan McIntosh were notified Sunday in a letter from the Spokane, Wash., university they had been placed on indefinite probation for violating the school's weapons policy Oct. 24 when a six-time felon knocked on their door and allegedly demanded money.

Fagan said he answered the door to their apartment when he confronted John Taylor, a repeat offender who told him he'd just gotten out of jail.

"I just kind of popped up and opened the door and see Mr. Taylor standing there and he starts explaining how he's homeless and needs money," Fagan told ABC News.

Fagan said Taylor tried to barge in and he called out to his roommate for help. McIntosh entered the room and brandished his gun.

"I drew my pointed weapon at him and at which time he sees me and takes off," McIntosh said.

McIntosh, an electrical engineering major, said he and Fagan called police after the incident and Taylor was arrested.

McIntosh has a concealed weapons permit for his gun but campus police confiscated the weapon and told the seniors they had violated school policy and could be suspended or even expelled.

Even though the incident took place off campus, the building that houses the apartment is owned by Gonzaga and school officials say their rules on no weapons is clearly stated.

"The university policy prohibits the possession of weapons in residential facilities. We also have a similar prohibition on the rest of campus," Vice President of Gonzaga Dr. Earl Martin said.

Fagan and McIntosh say they didn't know anything about the policy, but they wouldn't change a thing as they wonder what would have happened to them if they hadn't been armed.

"Because we were just defending ourselves there is no reason that we should be punished for it," Fagan said.

The seniors said they plan to appeal the school's indefinite probation ruling.
 

PieIsAwesome

Diamond Member
Feb 11, 2007
4,054
1
0
Why?

Why?

WHY?!?!?

Why do people not post links to articles?! :mad::mad::mad:

I hope that guy visits you next and has his way with you.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,483
8,344
126
That's a shit situation. I almost have to side with the school as I have issues with firearms in a dorm room. College age kids + alcohol + firearms = bad juju. I understand the schools reasoning. They have to side by their policy. If they waver and let it slide then it opens the door for more guns to come in.

Hallways to dorms floors should be locked. At least they always were for us. I was an RA in college. That was one of the major no-no's...propping doors open. It's one of the first and only lines of security that most campuses have.
 

PingviN

Golden Member
Nov 3, 2009
1,848
13
81
That's what they get for not inviting the burglar into their home to have his way with whatever he wanted from them.

They were not punished for defending themselves, they were punished for violating university policy. Guns are not allowed on campus.

Are you stupid or just stupid?
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,418
1,599
126
They were not punished for defending themselves, they were punished for violating university policy. Guns are not allowed on campus.

Are you stupid or just stupid?

...except they weren't on campus.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
44,296
15
81
That's a shit situation. I almost have to side with the school as I have issues with firearms in a dorm room. College age kids + alcohol + firearms = bad juju. I understand the schools reasoning. They have to side by their policy. If they waver and let it slide then it opens the door for more guns to come in.

Hallways to dorms floors should be locked. At least they always were for us. I was an RA in college. That was one of the major no-no's...propping doors open. It's one of the first and only lines of security that most campuses have.

Off campus university owned apartment does not necessarily equal dorm room.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,483
8,344
126
Off campus university owned apartment does not necessarily equal dorm room.

It was still owned by the school. I'm sure there's a policy in there somewhere about the firearm policy.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,143
10
81
That's a shit situation. I almost have to side with the school as I have issues with firearms in a dorm room. College age kids + alcohol + firearms = bad juju. I understand the schools reasoning. They have to side by their policy. If they waver and let it slide then it opens the door for more guns to come in.

Hallways to dorms floors should be locked. At least they always were for us. I was an RA in college. That was one of the major no-no's...propping doors open. It's one of the first and only lines of security that most campuses have.

I agree..but this was not a dorm.

This was a off campus apartment. Slightly diffrent situation. THOUGH the rules still apply. the kids should have known better.

Though i think at most they should be kicked out of the campus housing. still a fucked up situation.
 

KB

Diamond Member
Nov 8, 1999
5,402
386
126
No issue found: "school officials say their rules on no weapons is clearly stated."

They aren't being punished for defending themselves, they are being punished for not following the rules. Although I believe the rule is unfair, it is still their rule. The students could have stayed in non-university property if they wanted to carry a weapon.
 

lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
58,021
8,249
126
Like the saying goes, better judged by twelve than carried by six. They did what was important. Everything else is a trivial detail.
 

dbk

Lifer
Apr 23, 2004
17,685
10
81
That's a shit situation. I almost have to side with the school as I have issues with firearms in a dorm room. College age kids + alcohol + firearms = bad juju. I understand the schools reasoning. They have to side by their policy. If they waver and let it slide then it opens the door for more guns to come in.

Hallways to dorms floors should be locked. At least they always were for us. I was an RA in college. That was one of the major no-no's...propping doors open. It's one of the first and only lines of security that most campuses have.

I hope the students just receive a slap on the wrist as it happened off-campus. The school should revisit their policy regarding gun ownership for off-campus residents. The only connection to the school itself is that the building is its ownership.
 

Howard

Lifer
Oct 14, 1999
47,982
10
81
Well, they did break the rules as far as I can see. Hopefully the punishment is minimal though.
 

vi edit

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Oct 28, 1999
62,483
8,344
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I hope the students just receive a slap on the wrist as it happened off-campus. The school should revisit their policy regarding gun ownership for off-campus residents. The only connection to the school itself is that the building is its ownership.

It's all about shifting legal blame. If another student gets shot on "school property" then the school is potentially on the hook. They are just trying to protect themselves from issues.
 

iGas

Diamond Member
Feb 7, 2009
6,240
1
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I like to see the school written polices regard school properties and off campus residents before I can make a clear judgment.
 

sixone

Lifer
May 3, 2004
25,030
4
61
It's all about shifting legal blame. If another student gets shot on "school property" then the school is potentially on the hook. They are just trying to protect themselves from issues.

The school is free to choose between getting used for failing to protect students from each other or from those taking advantage of no-gun zones.

Looks like a no-win, to me.
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
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This is idiotic. So what happens if they were killed by the burglar or seriously injured then will the school be held responsible?

These guys defended themselves and did the right thing. The people who want to punish them should be fired for their sheer stupidity. This is the problem with the gun control nut-jobs.
 

Via

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2009
4,670
4
0
Unless the bum confirms that he tried to "barge in" I need more info. Are the guys in the apartment little guys or big rugby boys?

I've been approached by people claiming to be poor and asking for money several times in my life and none of them suddenly turned violent.

That being said - I'm glad it turned out ok.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
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Like the saying goes, better judged by twelve than carried by six. They did what was important. Everything else is a trivial detail.



Yup. They are alive and only on probation. They should simply sue the university for violating their Civil Rights. :p
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
Unless the bum confirms that he tried to "barge in" I need more info. Are the guys in the apartment little guys or big rugby boys?

I've been approached by people claiming to be poor and asking for money several times in my life and none of them suddenly turned violent.

That being said - I'm glad it turned out ok.




So you've had 6 time felons knocking on your home's door?
 

Via

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2009
4,670
4
0
So you've had 6 time felons knocking on your home's door?

No, but I've been approached at places like gas stations by people asking for change, even offering to pump my gas for it.

Unlike you I can't tell if a person is a six-time felon by looking at them.
 

olds

Elite Member
Mar 3, 2000
50,072
744
126
No, but I've been approached at places like gas stations by people asking for change, even offering to pump my gas for it.

Unlike you I can't tell if a person is a six-time felon by looking at them.
Sure you can. Just look for a neck tattoo.
 

Nintendesert

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2010
7,761
5
0
No, but I've been approached at places like gas stations by people asking for change, even offering to pump my gas for it.

Unlike you I can't tell if a person is a six-time felon by looking at them.




When someone is up to 6 felonies, you can usually tell. :whiste: