Student throws Koran in toilet, arrested for hate crime

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
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http://www.newsday.com/news/lo...7jul27,0,6882662.story

AP New YorkHate-crime arrests in Quran desecrations at Pace University
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July 27, 2007, 8:33 PM EDT

NEW YORK (AP) _ A 23-year-old man was arrested Friday on hate-crime charges after he threw a Quran in a toilet at Pace University on two separate occasions, police said.

Stanislav Shmulevich of Brooklyn was arrested on charges of criminal mischief and aggravated harassment, both hate crimes, police said. It was unclear if he was a student at the school. A message left at the Shmulevich home was not immediately returned.

The Islamic holy book was found in a toilet at Pace's lower Manhattan campus by a teacher on Oct. 13. A student discovered another book in a toilet on Nov. 21, police said.

Muslim activists had called on Pace University to crack down on hate crimes after the incidents. As a result, the university said it would offer sensitivity training to its students.

The school was accused by Muslim students of not taking the incident seriously enough at first. Pace classified the first desecration of the holy book as an act of vandalism, but university officials later reversed themselves and referred the incident to the New York Police Department's hate crimes unit.

The incidents came amid a spate of vandalism cases with religious or racial overtones at the school. In an earlier incident on Sept. 21, the school reported another copy of the Quran was found in a library toilet, and in October someone scrawled racial slurs on a student's car at the Westchester County satellite campus and on a bathroom wall at the campus in lower Manhattan. Police did not connect Shmulevich to those incidents.

Treatment of the Quran is a sensitive issue for Muslims, who view the book as a sacred object and mistreating it as an offense against God. The religion teaches that the Quran is the direct word of God.

In 2005, Newsweek magazine published and later retracted a story claiming U.S. interrogators at a prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, flushed a copy of the holy book down a toilet. The report sparked deadly demonstrations in Afghanistan and protests throughout the Middle East.

Pace University has 14,000 students on its campuses in New York City and Westchester County.

Messages left for school administrators and for officials with the New York and national chapters of the Council on American-Islamic Relations were not immediately returned Friday evening.

Ibrahim Hooper, a spokesman for the national CAIR office in Washington, D.C., has said the organization receives frequent reports of Quran desecrations in the United States, especially postings on Internet sites, but seldom makes them public.

He said CAIR decided to speak out about the Pace incidents because Muslim students are impacted by the creation of what could be viewed as a hostile campus environment.

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Pardon me, but the Koran is not holy to me. In fact, I'd be more offended if you flushed a copy of the US Constitution. Or Moby Dick. And when I say "more offended", I mean it would annoy me that you're doing it, but that's about it. So how can this stand in a country where separation of church and state is supposed to exist?

Chris Hitchen's take here: http://www.slate.com/id/2171371/
 

SiliconJon

Senior member
Nov 1, 2004
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While I think his actions are childish it is a form of expression which is classified under the freedom of speech. Though I bet we'll here some hypocrits chime in who think burning the flag should be a felony while this sort of behavior is OK, eh?
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
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So I would expect someone doing the same to a bible, or the torah to have the same charges applied, right?

Or any book for that matter.
 

SiliconJon

Senior member
Nov 1, 2004
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Sorry, forgot to mention that this being someone's property is was no longer free speech. One would expect that such an act against a bible would result in the same under such a standard.

Hell, this place is falling apart faster than the glue can dry.
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
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Originally posted by: SiliconJon
Sorry, forgot to mention that this being someone's property is was no longer free speech. One would expect that such an act against a bible would result in the same under such a standard.

Hell, this place is falling apart faster than the glue can dry.

Its possible its theft / destruction of property, but what if this guy bought a new book and threw it in the toilet?
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
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Originally posted by: GoPackGo
So I would expect someone doing the same to a bible, or the torah to have the same charges applied, right?

Or any book for that matter.

No, you see, the Bible, the Torah, and the Quran are all special magical story books. God cries when you throw a pile of paper in the toilet, and then you go to hell.

... :laugh:

Oh dear, I didn't just commit a hate crime, did I?
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Wow... you can burn the flag while chanting *Die Bush Die* but you can't flush the Quaran? I'd better start taking notes...

Heh... at first I read that as "Student throws Korean in toilet" :laugh:
 

Fern

Elite Member
Sep 30, 2003
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We need someone to host a picture of a "Muslim Whaambulance", so we can just link it up everytime we get one of these stories.

Fern
 

jonks

Lifer
Feb 7, 2005
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Originally posted by: Fern
We need someone to host a picture of a "Muslim Whaambulance", so we can just link it up everytime we get one of these stories.

Fern

This story has little to do with Muslims, and more to do with out of control sensitivity and bad law. If some Christian group complained an atheist threw the bible in the toilet and he was arrested for it, I'd find it just as repugnant.
 

Mxylplyx

Diamond Member
Mar 21, 2007
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If someone ever made me go to "sensitivity training", I think I would show them how sensitive to their cause I am by taking a dump on the floor.
 

manowar821

Diamond Member
Mar 1, 2007
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Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
If someone ever made me go to "sensitivity training", I think I would show them how sensitive to their cause I am by taking a dump on the floor.

Wow that made me laugh... :laugh:
 
Feb 6, 2007
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3 things:

1. It's free speech. Free speech only applies to unpopular speech, as no one wants to ban popular speech.
2. All crimes are hate crimes. If you loved someone, you wouldn't commit a crime against them.
3. If God is really that offended that you threw his book in the shitter, he will punish you (he is omnipotent after all).

Why in God's name (literally in this case) can't people ever be rational when dealing with this stuff?
 

nageov3t

Lifer
Feb 18, 2004
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2. All crimes are hate crimes. If you loved someone, you wouldn't commit a crime against them.

not really... though in this specific instance, I think it's a reach to classify these as hate crimes.
 

daveymark

Lifer
Sep 15, 2003
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next thing you know, people will be arrested for offering to shake your hand with their left hand
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
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I don't care what Muslims think of their holy book, the law should just treat it as a book; no different than a Zane Gray novel or a Calvin & Hobbs compilation.
 

palehorse

Lifer
Dec 21, 2005
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Originally posted by: babylon5
Politicians here are scared if they don't do what Muslims want.
Sadly, that is a global trend. It's ridiculous.

This was NOT a hate crime - hell, it's hardly a crime at all!
 

magomago

Lifer
Sep 28, 2002
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Originally posted by: babylon5
Politicians here are scared if they don't do what Muslims want.

Yes, BOW DOWN TO US.



The reality it is an assy thing, just like having a painting of "piss jesus" is (and I am easily opposed to that).

I think that as a country we should maintain free speech, even if its sickos who are absolute retards. So yes, this person has the right to be a prick

However, looking at this from an international position - we are trying to manuver in iraq and we can't let people think "We are after Islam" because that isn't our goal. Those over there who are the most extreme WANT to propagate that image because it allows them to garner more support for their political goals. Of course we have arses here doing the exact same (*cough* people on this forum*cough*). If we don't atleast condem it and say something like " we must allow people to have rights to do what they want, but we do not condone those actions and find it sickening", then we have played right into the hands of the extremists; and if we do, then we show what the real definition of "freedom" is - even if we don't like it~ and extremists would (as if they don't already, but our extremists also engage in this just as much!) have to lie through their teeth about what happens.

And a lie, no matter how good and well constructed it is, will always fall apart.
 

piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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Probably what happened is some person had to go to sensitivity training for muslims and just decided to use his right to freedom of speech to express his protest by throwing the books in the toilet. Maybe it was his only way to express what he felt. Every time we turn around in education we have to learn about more people that belong to a special protected class of people. It has gotten so bad that I am afraid to talk to Black people or to Gay people, now I can not talk to muslims. Heaven forbid saying anything about a Jew. However, every time I turn around everyone on the face of the earth can talk all kinds of hate speech about christians and get away with it all they want. We should just agree that we can call each other any kind of name we want and it is no big deal. How do you have a conversation and discuss each other's problems if everytime you say something bone-headed, someone wants to sue you or, even worse, chop your head off.

Throwing anything in a toilet like a book should probably be considered a crime. Simply because then the janitor has to remove it. For goodness sake make your protest out in a quad or the front lawn of the administration building. What they need is a protest of some kind. People could go buy their own Koran and have a big bon fire in a field near the school and call it a Muslim Barbeque and serve Barbeque Pork Steaks. People have a constitutional right to protest.

Now I will probably get banned for metioning what I said.

Muslims need to learn to live in peace with people from other religions. If they can not do this then they will never be accepted as Americans. Americans are willing to bend over backwards to accept everyone and everybody. However, we fought the revolutionary war against England and against any and all forces of Tyrany who wanted to enslave our people.

We proudly flew the flag with the snake with the saying "Dont Tread on Me!" Let it forever be our battle cry.
 

Kadarin

Lifer
Nov 23, 2001
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Originally posted by: babylon5
Pretty much everyone here is scared if they don't do what Muslims want.

Fixed that for you.

Personally, I think it's ridiculous. If I purchase a Koran and then shred it or burn it or piss on it, should I get arrested for a "hate crime"?

These Muslims really need to understand that their beliefs are NOT the center of the universe.