Student Loan cuts

[Theb]

Here's an article on student loan cuts:
via Medford Mail Tribune

Here's a link to a video of Bush "answering" a question about student loan cuts (Quicktime required):
via OneGoodMore.org

To me this seems unbelievably short-sighted. It seems like college graduates are kind of important as far as a country's future is concerned.
I realize that semi-literate alcoholics from wealthy families will always be able to go to ivy league schools, but I'm talking about college graduates that will actually produce something of value.

 

[Meuge]

Move along, nothing to see here... just trying to get the good ole' class system in place.

 

[dahunan]

This is a way to get more people to "join" the military

 

[EatSpam]

Why do we need college graduates? Just keep spending, spending, spending!!!! Its your job as a patriotic American.

Americans are consumers, period, well, until their credit runs out. After that? Oh yeah, who cares?

Big Business will import slaves on H1-B visas to do all the intellectual jobs or simply hire people in India or China to do those jobs. The Chinese already make just about everything at Target and Wal-mart. Plus, all those illegal aliens will do the blue collar jobs at less than minimum wage. Who needs Americans, except to consume?

 

[surreal1221]

First link takes you directly to Microsoft.

edit: omg, second link too!! end of the world!

remove the extra http please

 

[Theb]

Originally posted by: surreal1221
First link takes you directly to Microsoft.

edit: omg, second link too!! end of the world!

remove the extra http please

:Fixed:
Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Theb

Originally posted by: surreal1221
First link takes you directly to Microsoft.

edit: omg, second link too!! end of the world!

remove the extra http please

:Fixed:
Thanks for the heads-up.

Too bad you couldn't get a student loan to study hyperlinking

 

[Theb]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Theb

Originally posted by: surreal1221
First link takes you directly to Microsoft.

edit: omg, second link too!! end of the world!

remove the extra http please

:Fixed:
Thanks for the heads-up.

Too bad you couldn't get a student loan to study hyperlinking

There was a 2-for-1 sale on protocols and I can't resist a bargain.

 

[Ronstang]

Cry me a river. With the changes made to the system the example in the article shows the averabe Stafford loan costing $15 more a month to pay off and the Plus loans an additional $12.50 a month. If you can't come up with that amount of money out of the vastly larger salary you will receive as a college grad then you probably shouldn't be in school anyway. Three less Starbucks a month for a college education....not much of a trade off in my opinion. Why does everyone always want something for nothing these days? I worked through undergrad and paid for everything myself and managed to save enough that I was able to not work in graduate school and owned a house at the same time. I never asked anyone for ANYTHING. The loan on my mortgage for my house to live in at the time was 10% too. I guess I should have demanded the government subsidize that for me. Damn I was stupid paying for it myself.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Cry me a river. With the changes made to the system the example in the article shows the averabe Stafford loan costing $15 more a month to pay off and the Plus loans an additional $12.50 a month. If you can't come up with that amount of money out of the vastly larger salary you will receive as a college grad then you probably shouldn't be in school anyway. Three less Starbucks a month for a college education....not much of a trade off in my opinion. Why does everyone always want something for nothing these days? I worked through undergrad and paid for everything myself and managed to save enough that I was able to not work in graduate school and owned a house at the same time. I never asked anyone for ANYTHING. The loan on my mortgage for my house to live in at the time was 10% too. I guess I should have demanded the government subsidize that for me. Damn I was stupid paying for it myself.

Well, the problem is most kids can't afford to work their way thru college and pay off their bills. A four year degree, just the beginning for many, at at good college can cost over 100,000. And a student loan is a LOAN. And you can't get rid of it by declaring bankruptcy. At a time when we are faced with goblabization we need the most educated workers we can get.
The mere fact we are cutting it shows MORE people need to get an education just so they can understand how stupid it is to cut student loans.

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: techs
Well, the problem is most kids can't afford to work their way thru college and pay off their bills. A four year degree, just the beginning for many, at at good college can cost over 100,000. And a student loan is a LOAN. And you can't get rid of it by declaring bankruptcy. At a time when we are faced with goblabization we need the most educated workers we can get.
The mere fact we are cutting it shows MORE people need to get an education just so they can understand how stupid it is to cut student loans.

Your point? Why can't they afford to work? Why can't they do with less while they are in school since it is an investment that pays dividends the rest of your life? Kids these days don't need to max out credit cards living the good life in school only to have it bite them later. They need to learn how money works when they are young. People have become STUPID about handling money and it needs to stop. They need to realize the REAL costs of things and get their heads out of their credit card butts. Going into debt to buy goodies is stupid whereas taking out loans for an education is an actual investment.

This is not a cut of loans either. It is an adjustment of interest rates to reflect something closer to the market. Having the money available is the important part and that hasn't changed. In fact a higher rate is more of an insurance marker to make sure this type of money is there in the future. The government can't keep holding everyone's hand. If you truly want an education then you CAN work to make it happen. If you won't then I don't feel you deserve it in the first place.

I'm sorry that I just can't get a handle on all this I CAN"T do it attitude. Like I said, I did it. I worked hard, played hard, and managed to save a lot of money at the same time. I know kids that are doing it. They come to me for advice and I help them with their decisions. I have a 19 year old friend I met on the internet that I have been helping to build a 69 Mach 1 for the last two years who was in high school when I met him. He is now in college and paying for it himself. Two weeks ago he had saved up enough money to put new rims on the daily drive he saved the money to buy....and I talked him into an IRA instead. The kid is now excited about saving and will be doing the $2K every year into the IRA so when he retires it should be worth about $1.5 million. Believe me it can still be done. He is taking out no loans, just like I did it.

 

[techs]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: techs
Well, the problem is most kids can't afford to work their way thru college and pay off their bills. A four year degree, just the beginning for many, at at good college can cost over 100,000. And a student loan is a LOAN. And you can't get rid of it by declaring bankruptcy. At a time when we are faced with goblabization we need the most educated workers we can get.
The mere fact we are cutting it shows MORE people need to get an education just so they can understand how stupid it is to cut student loans.

Your point? Why can't they afford to work? Why can't they do with less while they are in school since it is an investment that pays dividends the rest of your life? Kids these days don't need to max out credit cards living the good life in school only to have it bite them later. They need to learn how money works when they are young. People have become STUPID about handling money and it needs to stop. They need to realize the REAL costs of things and get their heads out of their credit card butts. Going into debt to buy goodies is stupid whereas taking out loans for an education is an actual investment.

This is not a cut of loans either. It is an adjustment of interest rates to reflect something closer to the market. Having the money available is the important part and that hasn't changed. In fact a higher rate is more of an insurance marker to make sure this type of money is there in the future. The government can't keep holding everyone's hand. If you truly want an education then you CAN work to make it happen. If you won't then I don't feel you deserve it in the first place.

I'm sorry that I just can't get a handle on all this I CAN"T do it attitude. Like I said, I did it. I worked hard, played hard, and managed to save a lot of money at the same time. I know kids that are doing it. They come to me for advice and I help them with their decisions. I have a 19 year old friend I met on the internet that I have been helping to build a 69 Mach 1 for the last two years who was in high school when I met him. He is now in college and paying for it himself. Two weeks ago he had saved up enough money to put new rims on the daily drive he saved the money to buy....and I talked him into an IRA instead. The kid is now excited about saving and will be doing the $2K every year into the IRA so when he retires it should be worth about $1.5 million. Believe me it can still be done. He is taking out no loans, just like I did it.

Yeah, yeah.
Meanwhile we aren't turning out enough engineers and other tech degrees to compete on the world stage.
And your anecdotal evidence is specious.
Every analysis has proven it has gotten and is continuing to get more difficult to get a college education and that many kids are effectively being forced out of the option of a college education.
Meanwhile the most productive period for US technology was when the soldiers who got a paid college education via the GI bill after WW2 entered the workforce.
The guys who built the moon rockets were educated under the GI bill.
Seems like public funding of college education is great for America.
Which is why anything that makes it more difficult to get a college education is not just stupid but uninformed.
Try an internet search on the changes in affordability for college educations over the last 6 years. Its way, way, way more difficult.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Cry me a river. With the changes made to the system the example in the article shows the averabe Stafford loan costing $15 more a month to pay off and the Plus loans an additional $12.50 a month. If you can't come up with that amount of money out of the vastly larger salary you will receive as a college grad then you probably shouldn't be in school anyway. Three less Starbucks a month for a college education....not much of a trade off in my opinion. Why does everyone always want something for nothing these days? I worked through undergrad and paid for everything myself and managed to save enough that I was able to not work in graduate school and owned a house at the same time. I never asked anyone for ANYTHING. The loan on my mortgage for my house to live in at the time was 10% too. I guess I should have demanded the government subsidize that for me. Damn I was stupid paying for it myself.

Well, the problem is most kids can't afford to work their way thru college and pay off their bills. A four year degree, just the beginning for many, at at good college can cost over 100,000. And a student loan is a LOAN. And you can't get rid of it by declaring bankruptcy. At a time when we are faced with goblabization we need the most educated workers we can get.
The mere fact we are cutting it shows MORE people need to get an education just so they can understand how stupid it is to cut student loans.

100k for a good school. What schools are you talking about. There are many schools that are far more affordable than that. And that is probably the reason why the average student loan is 20k.

As far as wrking and going to school. It was not that long ago that graduated debt free because I worked(part time during school and 80 hours/week summer) and went to school.

 

[piasabird]

I think the key here is that some schools have higher tuition because they know the government will give out loans. It is the Educational institution ripping off the student, not the government.

I work in education and understand this a bit more.

I question why a school book for one class can cost over $100.00. It is just a big rip-off.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Cry me a river. With the changes made to the system the example in the article shows the averabe Stafford loan costing $15 more a month to pay off and the Plus loans an additional $12.50 a month. If you can't come up with that amount of money out of the vastly larger salary you will receive as a college grad then you probably shouldn't be in school anyway. Three less Starbucks a month for a college education....not much of a trade off in my opinion. Why does everyone always want something for nothing these days? I worked through undergrad and paid for everything myself and managed to save enough that I was able to not work in graduate school and owned a house at the same time. I never asked anyone for ANYTHING. The loan on my mortgage for my house to live in at the time was 10% too. I guess I should have demanded the government subsidize that for me. Damn I was stupid paying for it myself.

Well, the problem is most kids can't afford to work their way thru college and pay off their bills. A four year degree, just the beginning for many, at at good college can cost over 100,000. And a student loan is a LOAN. And you can't get rid of it by declaring bankruptcy. At a time when we are faced with goblabization we need the most educated workers we can get.
The mere fact we are cutting it shows MORE people need to get an education just so they can understand how stupid it is to cut student loans.

100k for a good school. What schools are you talking about. There are many schools that are far more affordable than that. And that is probably the reason why the average student loan is 20k.

As far as wrking and going to school. It was not that long ago that graduated debt free because I worked(part time during school and 80 hours/week summer) and went to school.

Any school that's not tax payer subsidized.. You know like Stanford, Yale, Norte Dame etc Where did you go?

You two crack me up with your "i did all myself debt free" when in fact you more likly than not attended a school which was heavily subsidized by state and federal tax payers to the tune of 95%. Free money you got with zero obligation other than it's implicit you'll become a tax payer later to continue the cycle for the next generation. And now you're bagging on kids who just want a more of a loan, nothing free like you had.

Again what school what years I can tell you how much welfare you got.

 

[charrison]

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Cry me a river. With the changes made to the system the example in the article shows the averabe Stafford loan costing $15 more a month to pay off and the Plus loans an additional $12.50 a month. If you can't come up with that amount of money out of the vastly larger salary you will receive as a college grad then you probably shouldn't be in school anyway. Three less Starbucks a month for a college education....not much of a trade off in my opinion. Why does everyone always want something for nothing these days? I worked through undergrad and paid for everything myself and managed to save enough that I was able to not work in graduate school and owned a house at the same time. I never asked anyone for ANYTHING. The loan on my mortgage for my house to live in at the time was 10% too. I guess I should have demanded the government subsidize that for me. Damn I was stupid paying for it myself.

Well, the problem is most kids can't afford to work their way thru college and pay off their bills. A four year degree, just the beginning for many, at at good college can cost over 100,000. And a student loan is a LOAN. And you can't get rid of it by declaring bankruptcy. At a time when we are faced with goblabization we need the most educated workers we can get.
The mere fact we are cutting it shows MORE people need to get an education just so they can understand how stupid it is to cut student loans.

100k for a good school. What schools are you talking about. There are many schools that are far more affordable than that. And that is probably the reason why the average student loan is 20k.

As far as wrking and going to school. It was not that long ago that graduated debt free because I worked(part time during school and 80 hours/week summer) and went to school.

Any school that's not tax payer subsidized.. You know like Stanford, Yale, Norte Dame etc Where did you go?

You two crack me up with your "i did all myself debt free" when in fact you more likly than not attended a school which was heavily subsidized by state and federal tax payers to the tune of 95%. Free money you got with zero obligation other than it's implicit you'll become a tax payer later to continue the cycle for the next generation. And now you're bagging on kids who just want a more of a loan, nothing free like you had.

Again what school what years I can tell you how much welfare you got.

Yes I am aware state school are subsidized. And for the most part I dont mind education being subsidized as it is general benefit to all of our society. However this does not change my point that getting a college education does not require 100K in loans and the average student loan is far less than that. Most(around 90%) of the goverment spending for education comes at the state and local level. I have no problems with student loan program in but I also dont think students loans are a job of the fed either.

I am not bagging on anyone, my point still remains with the current rules of the game student loans are not really needed for most people. And to be honest, I probably would have been off taking a student loan and graduatiing 2 years eawrly. 2 years of increased income would have easily offset any interest payments from a loan.

 

[Thump553]

This is a rather old story and the knee-jerk reaction is to condemn Bush & Co. as heartless rich beating up on poor students. Things are not as they first appear. The government pays interest subsidies to the leaders that grant these student loans. These rates haven't been changed for quite a while, despite interest rates falling rather dramatically over the last couple of years. The student loan rates charged to the students/families in this program haven't come down. Net effect-the lenders have been making unjustified windfall profits off an excessively high government subsidy.

I paid for myself through college and post-grad work, and am now paying for my children (plus these loans). I should be a person opposed to this change, but from my understanding of it, it is one of those rare instances where Bush did the right thing-even though it was contrary to the monied interests (the lenders).

 

[brandonbull]

Haha that is funny. Accepting direct subsidized money = bad. Using subsidized education = good. I love all these arrogant asses that brag about how they worked 100 hours a week and still went to school to earn 3 bachelor degrees. Good for you. How do you think many of the the education systems around the world work? They are heavily subsidized.

Students in the US are having a harder time paying for college. I know from the time I started college until I received my degree tuition increased ~50%.

 

[CycloWizard]

Originally posted by: techs
Well, the problem is most kids can't afford to work their way thru college and pay off their bills. A four year degree, just the beginning for many, at at good college can cost over 100,000. And a student loan is a LOAN. And you can't get rid of it by declaring bankruptcy. At a time when we are faced with goblabization we need the most educated workers we can get.
The mere fact we are cutting it shows MORE people need to get an education just so they can understand how stupid it is to cut student loans.

I paid $100k for my undergrad education, getting an engineering degree in four years working 20+ hours a week for the last three years and I still owe $85k in PRIVATE loans. Why should the government pay for me to get a degree when I can pay for it myself? Get your ass to http://www.studentloan.com like I did and quit sucking up MY money to pay for your education when you wouldn't pay for mine because I'm a middle-class white kid instead of a minority.

Originally posted by: piasabird
I think the key here is that some schools have higher tuition because they know the government will give out loans. It is the Educational institution ripping off the student, not the government.

I work in education and understand this a bit more.

I question why a school book for one class can cost over $100.00. It is just a big rip-off.

QFT. Higher education is a complete racket these days, with skyrocketing fees and declining professor salaries. Of course, you also go to WashU so you know all about that.

 

[Meuge]

Originally posted by: Ronstang

Originally posted by: techs
Well, the problem is most kids can't afford to work their way thru college and pay off their bills. A four year degree, just the beginning for many, at at good college can cost over 100,000. And a student loan is a LOAN. And you can't get rid of it by declaring bankruptcy. At a time when we are faced with goblabization we need the most educated workers we can get.
The mere fact we are cutting it shows MORE people need to get an education just so they can understand how stupid it is to cut student loans.

Your point? Why can't they afford to work? Why can't they do with less while they are in school since it is an investment that pays dividends the rest of your life? Kids these days don't need to max out credit cards living the good life in school only to have it bite them later. They need to learn how money works when they are young. People have become STUPID about handling money and it needs to stop. They need to realize the REAL costs of things and get their heads out of their credit card butts. Going into debt to buy goodies is stupid whereas taking out loans for an education is an actual investment.

This is not a cut of loans either. It is an adjustment of interest rates to reflect something closer to the market. Having the money available is the important part and that hasn't changed. In fact a higher rate is more of an insurance marker to make sure this type of money is there in the future. The government can't keep holding everyone's hand. If you truly want an education then you CAN work to make it happen. If you won't then I don't feel you deserve it in the first place.

I'm sorry that I just can't get a handle on all this I CAN"T do it attitude. Like I said, I did it. I worked hard, played hard, and managed to save a lot of money at the same time. I know kids that are doing it. They come to me for advice and I help them with their decisions. I have a 19 year old friend I met on the internet that I have been helping to build a 69 Mach 1 for the last two years who was in high school when I met him. He is now in college and paying for it himself. Two weeks ago he had saved up enough money to put new rims on the daily drive he saved the money to buy....and I talked him into an IRA instead. The kid is now excited about saving and will be doing the $2K every year into the IRA so when he retires it should be worth about $1.5 million. Believe me it can still be done. He is taking out no loans, just like I did it.

How much did you pay for your school? You say that because the school you went to was likely an order of magnitude cheaper than what people pay for a decent education nowadays.

Tell that to a medical student. At $30k/year+ and 16-hour days... let's see you do that and still work full-time. Oh, wait... that's impossible!

 

[techs]

Of course if you come from a poor family, or a family with a member who has a health problem you probably have to go straight to work and skip college. If you're a decent human being.
Seems like we are going backwards to the days when two or three kids went to work out of high school to help one kid go to college. And not necessarly the brightest one.
And a college degree, in many, many fields, is worth next to nothing in the job market. So add 2-3 years of graduate school costs into the equation.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Theb

Two common educational loans for middle-class families ? Stafford loans made to students and PLUS loans made to parents ? will have a higher cost starting in July, thanks to Bush?s recent action. Another loan program, Perkins loans for lower-income students, doesn?t appear at all in the president?s proposed budget.

To me this seems unbelievably short-sighted.

Actually, this makes all the sense in the world: An ignorant electorate is the friend of the right, as it's difficult to propagandize those who are capable of rational thought.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: piasabird
I think the key here is that some schools have higher tuition because they know the government will give out loans. It is the Educational institution ripping off the student, not the government.

I work in education and understand this a bit more.

I question why a school book for one class can cost over $100.00. It is just a big rip-off.

You try and establish yourself as some type of expert for education by saying you work in it, but then you go off and say that a $100 book is a rip off.

Sorry buddy, but do you know what goes into producing that $100 book?

Did you know that even outside of college a good educational book costs more than $100?

I pay tons for good finance books outside of college.



As far as the rest of you. Perhaps the subsidy the govt gives to the finance companies is a bit stupid. Cut that, not the actual loans.

Through loans I put myself through undergrad (2 majors) and grad (mba). Because I got all of that done in 6.5 years and I worked one full time job for another 2.5 years, which I only got because of grad school, I now make over 6 figures, before I hit 28.

I am worth far more by paying higher taxes and interest rates than somebody who spends 6 years getting through school by working or burning out right away.

Not to mention my knowledge and experience gained because of my education will pay off to society in spades.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Cry me a river. With the changes made to the system the example in the article shows the averabe Stafford loan costing $15 more a month to pay off and the Plus loans an additional $12.50 a month. If you can't come up with that amount of money out of the vastly larger salary you will receive as a college grad then you probably shouldn't be in school anyway. Three less Starbucks a month for a college education....not much of a trade off in my opinion. Why does everyone always want something for nothing these days? I worked through undergrad and paid for everything myself and managed to save enough that I was able to not work in graduate school and owned a house at the same time. I never asked anyone for ANYTHING. The loan on my mortgage for my house to live in at the time was 10% too. I guess I should have demanded the government subsidize that for me. Damn I was stupid paying for it myself.

That 'vastly larger salary' you're talking about amounts to 36-40k a year for me with a masters and two bachelors. Not saying I disagree with your general statement, but lets be careful about over-generalizing what a college degree is worth.

 

[Zebo]

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: Zebo

Originally posted by: charrison

Originally posted by: techs

Originally posted by: Ronstang
Cry me a river. With the changes made to the system the example in the article shows the averabe Stafford loan costing $15 more a month to pay off and the Plus loans an additional $12.50 a month. If you can't come up with that amount of money out of the vastly larger salary you will receive as a college grad then you probably shouldn't be in school anyway. Three less Starbucks a month for a college education....not much of a trade off in my opinion. Why does everyone always want something for nothing these days? I worked through undergrad and paid for everything myself and managed to save enough that I was able to not work in graduate school and owned a house at the same time. I never asked anyone for ANYTHING. The loan on my mortgage for my house to live in at the time was 10% too. I guess I should have demanded the government subsidize that for me. Damn I was stupid paying for it myself.

Well, the problem is most kids can't afford to work their way thru college and pay off their bills. A four year degree, just the beginning for many, at at good college can cost over 100,000. And a student loan is a LOAN. And you can't get rid of it by declaring bankruptcy. At a time when we are faced with goblabization we need the most educated workers we can get.
The mere fact we are cutting it shows MORE people need to get an education just so they can understand how stupid it is to cut student loans.

100k for a good school. What schools are you talking about. There are many schools that are far more affordable than that. And that is probably the reason why the average student loan is 20k.

As far as wrking and going to school. It was not that long ago that graduated debt free because I worked(part time during school and 80 hours/week summer) and went to school.

Any school that's not tax payer subsidized.. You know like Stanford, Yale, Norte Dame etc Where did you go?

You two crack me up with your "i did all myself debt free" when in fact you more likly than not attended a school which was heavily subsidized by state and federal tax payers to the tune of 95%. Free money you got with zero obligation other than it's implicit you'll become a tax payer later to continue the cycle for the next generation. And now you're bagging on kids who just want a more of a loan, nothing free like you had.

Again what school what years I can tell you how much welfare you got.

Yes I am aware state school are subsidized. And for the most part I dont mind education being subsidized as it is general benefit to all of our society. However this does not change my point that getting a college education does not require 100K in loans and the average student loan is far less than that. Most(around 90%) of the goverment spending for education comes at the state and local level. I have no problems with student loan program in but I also dont think students loans are a job of the fed either.

I am not bagging on anyone, my point still remains with the current rules of the game student loans are not really needed for most people. And to be honest, I probably would have been off taking a student loan and graduatiing 2 years eawrly. 2 years of increased income would have easily offset any interest payments from a loan.

All Schools cost $100,000 for four years. It's only a matter if your sponging off the gov't in a public school and don't see all the costs - or actually relising them by attending a private school.

I'd rather have them taking 100K in fed loans than taking tax monies be they state/local/federal or a combination of all three. it's further proof Bush is a socialist - cutting LOAN programs like SBA and student loans - while increasing free funding and thus forced collection for both.

As far as your opportunity cost - yeah it's a huge mistake to work and go to school finacially and socially. As a unspoken general rule my company does'nt hire recent grads over 24 and that wer'nt involved acedemically and socially (acedemic societies, greeks, student govt etc..) around campus. More evidence to my mind loans are needed.