Student gets Suspended for taking PIC of napping Teacher!

[Bulk Beef]

You think it's ridiculous until someone brings a butter knife and stabs another kid.

OK, this is just dumb now.

PS - ˄ not a personal attack. Don't get your feelings hurt.

 

[GotIssues]

I guess the personal attack is rather rude, but so is replying that I am acting like a complete asshole and then telling me to either discuss like an adult or leave.

Woe is you. You come in here making personal attacks and you want sympathy? No thanks.

Um...isn't that a personal attack? You are suggesting that my opinion doesn't mater or is somehow invalid because I may have come from a small school district.

How is that a personal attack? Please, elaborate. No, the world isn't out to get you. No, you aren't the victim. Stop trying to play one.

I'm getting more information on the situation as to form a better argument. There is not a single rational and logical way that could be construed as a personal attack - other than an attempt to by you to make yourself look like the victim.

There is a huge difference between small school system and a large school system. Do you disagree? Simple yes or no will suffice.

For the record, I worked at a school district in a large middle class suburb of Los Angeles, CA. I was a librarian and classroom technology aide in middle and elementary schools.

As a librarian and classroom technology aide, how does that give your opinion any more validity than anyone else's? How involved were you in the disciplinary process as a librarian and classroom technology aide? Why exactly were you trying to use it as a bolstering fact to your opinion?

What does it matter how well the rule was communicated? Cell phones in schoosl are very old problems, at least a dozen years or so. My argument is that ANY zero tolerance rule is silly and are put in place to relieve the administration from having to use good judgment when resolving an issue.

It wasn't until fairly recently that kids regularly had cell phones. I didn't graduate HS that long ago, and I knew 5 or 10 out of 1500 that had cellphones. Now, every kid has one. Not to mention, the evolution of cell phones in general have brought about rampant texting. That is a new problem.

How the hell can kicking a kid out of school for anything short of violence help anyone? Does anyone think it will make him a better student?

You really need to calm down.

How does in school punishment make him or her a better student? Did going to detention make you smarter?

Stop with the straw man arguments. I don't think it's cool for kids to stab each other with knives, and nothing I said indicates so. You are trying to be sensational.

We live in a society where nothing is ever done until something bad happens to someone. Here they are preventing problems, and people are ignoring reason and logic. Had the article read: "Student breaks rules, gets suspended," this thread would never exist. Suspension for using a phone? Yes, it might be excessive, but as I mentioned previously, and you've conveniently ignored, there is an appeal system for a reason.

Assault is illegal! Packing a weapon is illegal! Why do we need zero tolerance rules that force us to expel students from school for biting their chicken nuggets into the shape of a gun? Are we safer for doing so? Are we teaching better for doing so? Does the student or anyone else benefit from such a ridiculously rigid rule?

Who's sensationalizing? I use an example of a knife being used as a weapon. You use an example of a chicken nugget as a firearm.

If one of my students had caught one of our teachers sleeping and snapped a cell-phone pic of it, any of the principals I've ever worked for would have been ashamed. The would have apologized to the kid's parent, not suspended him as a punishment for embarrassing them.

See, you just don't get it. It's not the fact that he snapped a picture of the teacher. No one is arguing the teacher shouldn't get fired. No one. None. Zero. Zilch. Nada. This is about a student who decided to break the rules and get suspended.

You are too caught up in the story and headlines that are meant to enrage to actually see why the student got suspended and discuss like an adult as to the why it's right or wrong.

 

[GotIssues]

OK, this is just dumb now.

Take a butter knife. Stab yourself in the gut. If it won't work, as you are implying, then you'll turn out fine.

PS - ˄ not a personal attack. Don't get your feelings hurt.

I'm trying to keep this discussion from deteriorating into a mess of insults. If my desire to keep this a conversation rather than a series of juvenile name calling goes against what you'd like this thread to be, then by all means, see yourself out.

 

[Regs]

I think that picture was well worth the suspension. He might just have a career in journalism.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

The student was smart because all he got was a slap on the wrist and the teacher gets fired.

It is a win-win.

 

[GotIssues]

Bad analogy,

He's saying that since he's using the phone (iPad) as only a camera (deck of cards), it's not really using a phone (iPad) but a camera (deck of cards). A phone is still a phone, using another feature on it doesn't magically make it something completely different. Explain how the logic of my statement is incorrect.

but it doesn't seem you're too on top of logic anyway as you support zero tolerance policies. Just leave the thinking to others and go by the book.

"You don't agree with me, so I'm going to just throw some blind, lame, and completely incorrect insult to attempt to discredit you, then state my opinion again without ever providing any logical or rational argument to support it."

Support your argument. Resorting to this horseshit is basically just stating you have nothing to support your opinion. Provide some reasoned argument as to why you are right and I am wrong. Not just another post of "This is my opinion. Insult person that doesn't agree with me. My opinion is right."

 

[GotIssues]

I think that picture was well worth the suspension. He might just have a career in journalism.

I agree (as I stated in an earlier post). Picture is hilarious.

I doubt the suspension will hold up, anyways. It wouldn't have held up even if news agencies didn't sensationalize it. As I've said multiple times, there is an appeal system for a reason.

 

[Analog]

I think that picture was well worth the suspension. He might just have a career in journalism.

 

[AlienCraft]

Was this at an Air Traffic Controller training?

 

[Analog]

I mentioned this story to a friend of mine who is a sub and she thought it was pretty funny.

 

[Howard]

Moral of the story: bring a real camera so that GotIssues won't get his panties in a wad somewhere on the Internet.

 

[Sonikku]

Student gets in trouble for calling out a bad teacher for sleeping on the job? They're there to babysit the kids not the other way around. I bet you get suspended for using your cell to call 911 on school grounds in a medial emergency at this rate.

 

[gothamhunter]

Let's switch that example up.

A man is walking though the halls of the school killing your fellow classmates. Should you be suspended for using your cell phone to call 911?

I still haven't seen a response on this. I'm guessing GotIssues thinks this student should get a suspension too. Want to make sure he doesn't do it again! :awe:

 

[Dude111]

Totally stupid!!!!!

As bad as the police!!!!!!!! (If someone films them they usually flip out!)

 

[ioni]

Zero tolerance was how I get suspended for NOT fighting in school. It is also why the next time I got in a fight, rather than holding my hands up saying "I don't want to fight you", I took the kids head and smashed it into a bloody mess.

If I was going home, i was going home for something I did.

Zero tolerance is simply retarded. It paints a picture of a black and white reality which doesn't exist in the real world.

Reminds of this http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ba-Sofd2LyQ#t=502s

 

[fatpat268]

Take a butter knife. Stab yourself in the gut. If it won't work, as you are implying, then you'll turn out fine.

Take a pen or pencil. Stab yourself in the gut. Oh wait, that works. Lets ban those too. :hmm:

 

[Howard]

Take a pen or pencil. Stab yourself in the gut. Oh wait, that works. Lets ban those too. :hmm:

Take your finger and... put through your eye?

 

[Howard]

Gotta love time warp.

 

[Danadcorps]

There are an infinite amount of weapons at the disposal of students: almost anything can be turned into a lethal object given the right situation. So let's stop talking about guns, plastic forks, etc since they can all be used as a weapon, although some have certain stereotypes that make them more prone to cause injuries (but let's not kid ourselves and say that since it hasn't been used to hurt someone yet that it cannot ever be used!).

In any case, this kid took a picture with a device that was not allowed to be used during school. While I agree that zero-tolerance is absolute crap since it only allows the use of a scape-goat, the kid should still be punished for using a device that shouldn't be allowed in a situation that didn't warrant the necessity of the device. If anything, however, his offense is minor and it provided more evidence against the teacher than against the student and should warrant a detention, not a suspension (upon independent questioning of the students and the "subs" behavior to make sure that this "nap" lasted long enough). Students, while they need firm discipline when they are young in order to know what is right and what is wrong, should also be familiar with the real world where more-often-than-not the actions fall unto a grey area where motive is considered to be a key component.

 

[slag]

He got suspended for taking the picture, the subject was irrelevant. With cellphones, I'm all for the zero tolerance policy in schools and the kid should be suspended. They are very disruptive to the education process.

As for the teacher, do whatever the policy has for punishment (I'm sure napping on the job would be in there) and be done with it.

He got suspended for taking the picture, the subject was irrelevant. With cellphones, I'm all for the zero tolerance policy in schools and the kid should be suspended. They are very disruptive to the education process.

As for the teacher, do whatever the policy has for punishment (I'm sure napping on the job would be in there) and be done with it.

I'm totally against zero tolerance policies, especially in schools where young children are learning how to behave and act in public. With learning comes mistakes and zero tolerance does not allow for these mistakes.

My son was harassed and punched by a kid on the playground at his school and tried to defend himself. Both kids were given suspensions. My child did nothing wrong as other kids attested to and was still punished.

I've since told him to fight back and make it count and that I'd stand behind him and support him no matter what happens. That was a couple years ago and he is now friends with the other person, but still, zero tolerance is a joke.

 

[GotIssues]

Moral of the story: bring a real camera so that GotIssues won't get his panties in a wad somewhere on the Internet.

Grow up. Read the thread, I've stated that he shouldn't get it.

Student gets in trouble for calling out a bad teacher for sleeping on the job? They're there to babysit the kids not the other way around. I bet you get suspended for using your cell to call 911 on school grounds in a medial emergency at this rate.

He got in trouble for using his phone in school, which was a clear rule with clear consequences. The subject of the picture is irrelevant.

I still haven't seen a response on this. I'm guessing GotIssues thinks this student should get a suspension too. Want to make sure he doesn't do it again! :awe:

If you weren't too lazy to read the thread, you'd know I didn't think the suspension would or should hold up. Unfortunately, it looks like laziness and sensationalism is the only thing people defending this thread are capable of. There has been very, very little arguments against it other than personal attacks at me.

Take a pen or pencil. Stab yourself in the gut. Oh wait, that works. Lets ban those too. :hmm:

Pencils are required instruments. Knives are not. Stop sensationalising as your only defense.

There are an infinite amount of weapons at the disposal of students: almost anything can be turned into a lethal object given the right situation. So let's stop talking about guns, plastic forks, etc since they can all be used as a weapon, although some have certain stereotypes that make them more prone to cause injuries (but let's not kid ourselves and say that since it hasn't been used to hurt someone yet that it cannot ever be used!).

In any case, this kid took a picture with a device that was not allowed to be used during school. While I agree that zero-tolerance is absolute crap since it only allows the use of a scape-goat, the kid should still be punished for using a device that shouldn't be allowed in a situation that didn't warrant the necessity of the device. If anything, however, his offense is minor and it provided more evidence against the teacher than against the student and should warrant a detention, not a suspension (upon independent questioning of the students and the "subs" behavior to make sure that this "nap" lasted long enough). Students, while they need firm discipline when they are young in order to know what is right and what is wrong, should also be familiar with the real world where more-often-than-not the actions fall unto a grey area where motive is considered to be a key component.

Careful, you are stating what I've already stated. You'll end up with a bunch of people defending their stance by trying to insult you and add no real value to the discussion.

I'm totally against zero tolerance policies, especially in schools where young children are learning how to behave and act in public. With learning comes mistakes and zero tolerance does not allow for these mistakes.

My son was harassed and punched by a kid on the playground at his school and tried to defend himself. Both kids were given suspensions. My child did nothing wrong as other kids attested to and was still punished.

I've since told him to fight back and make it count and that I'd stand behind him and support him no matter what happens. That was a couple years ago and he is now friends with the other person, but still, zero tolerance is a joke.

Zero tolerance policies do have their place on obvious matters (drugs, alcohol, guns). Some policies on things will be too harsh, some will be not harsh enough. No set of rules are perfect. There are grey areas in a lot of situations, which is why you can appeal suspensions. If you lose that appeal, the zero tolerance rule is pretty irrelevant, because the case was reviewed and found not to qualify for a reduced punishment, therefore it's pretty easy to conclude that given more flexibility, a non-zero tolerance punishment would have been the same.


3/4 the people in this thread seem to be lacking the maturity for an actual debate regarding the topic of the thread, which is one of the biggest problems of OT.

 

[fatpat268]

Pencils are required instruments. Knives are not. Stop sensationalising as your only defense.

No one is sensationalizing except for you. Is a butterknife required for a school lunch? Probably not. However, a butter knife is no more dangerous than a pen, pencil, compass, metal ruler, or whatever else you have. You can't simply disregard my argument simply because you feel like it better fits your agument.

Fact is, properly used, butter knives are harmless. So are pens and pencils. Now, if we're talking about pocket knives and steak knives, then yea maybe some disciplinary action is needed, but for a butter knife? Come on.

But then of course, when I was in elementary school, kids carried around swiss army knives, and no one ever got stabbed. Imagine that.

 

[MotF Bane]

Got issues - zero tolerance on drugs often gets applied to cold meds, aspirin, rx, etc. again, zt is a bad idea

.

 

[WelshBloke]

...



Pencils are required instruments. Knives are not. Stop sensationalising as your only defense.



...

How the hell are you supposed to eat your lunch without a knife?

 

[Fritzo]

Well, I'm no expert here, but IF THE TEACHER WAS FREAKIN' AWAKE, THE KID WOULDN'T HAVE HAD HIS PHONE OUT TAKING PICTURES OF HIM!