Student gets Suspended for taking PIC of napping Teacher!

[Phoenix86]

suspension for using a phone?? Is detention not a thing anymore?

Detention=more work for the schools.
Suspension=less work for the schools.

 

[sourceninja]

If you take out a gun in the school hallway without intent using it, is that ok? You are not using it, not hurting anyone. What's the big deal?

That's an extreme example, but rules have to be black and white, especially at a high school. HAVE to be. You were/are of that age, you should know that you'd do your best to "technically" get around the rules. You probably spent a lot of time coming up with new ways to get around the rules. Hell, you are trying to do it right now.

There is an appeal system for a reason. Zero tolerance is fine, and credible grievances should be heard, but this is not one of them. The kid didn't need to break the rules, he did it anyways.

Let's switch that example up.

A man is walking though the halls of the school killing your fellow classmates. Should you be suspended for using your cell phone to call 911?

 

[sourceninja]

What exactly were you doing to have the person want to fight you to begin with? It might not have been entirely about not fighting, but how you got to that point to begin with.

I remember it exactly. I broke up with a crazy girl. She told her ROTC friends that I broke up with her because she was pregnant (we never even had sex). As I was walking to my locker I was grabbed and thrown into the locker by a screaming guy I never met. I tried to stop him by yelling "I do not want to fight you" over and over while hoping for a teacher to help. A kid tried to hold him back and was also suspended with us. My nose was broken.

I did track him down a few days later and show him what a fight was....that's another story.

Zero tolerance really isn't zero tolerance. It's still subject to appeals and the like. It's a deterrent to prevent people from testing the rules, which kids do all the time. Work with kids sometime. Dropping the hammer is a much stricter message than a lengthy debate regarding the actual rule breaking. Leaving it open for debate encourages kids to test the rules more to find out where the boundaries actually are.

It's not about the micro, it's about the macro.

Isn't part of growing up learning to test the rules and found out what your boundaries are?

 

[Paladin3]

If you take out a gun in the school hallway without intent using it, is that ok? You are not using it, not hurting anyone. What's the big deal?

That's an extreme example, but rules have to be black and white, especially at a high school. HAVE to be. You were/are of that age, you should know that you'd do your best to "technically" get around the rules. You probably spent a lot of time coming up with new ways to get around the rules. Hell, you are trying to do it right now.

There is an appeal system for a reason. Zero tolerance is fine, and credible grievances should be heard, but this is not one of them. The kid didn't need to break the rules, he did it anyways.

Not true.

What if he was stretching out his back at the time? Pictures don't tell the full story out of context. If they do, I have proof that a single balloon can lift a man, I even have photographic proof.

Dude, you've got more issues than your handle even hints at.

I've worked in the public education system and I can tell you that zero tolerance rules help nobody except lazy administrators. Schools are perfectly willing to throw students under the bus so long as they can blame it on a zero tolerance rule and they don't have to make any decision that might later be questioned.

The goal of public education is to educate our children so they can go on to become productive members of society. That goal should be paramount in any decision an administrator makes. The kid who took that picture was suspended from school because he embarrassed the administration and for no other reason. The administration just got lucky that they had the asinine zero tolerance rule in place so they could get away with it.

 

[BladeVenom]

Government run schools, what do you expect.

 

[unokitty]

I appreciate that it can be difficult sometimes to maintain order and keep students focused. But I would have more respect for school officials if they could keep up with Canada. See this article:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5juGFSx9LiPaur6eO1KJAypB2ImVQ

The article states that "In Canada, 15-year-olds are more than one school year ahead of their US peers in math and more than half a school year ahead in reading and science ..."

Or this article:

http://www.oecd.org/document/7/0,3746,en_21571361_44315115_46635719_1_1_1_1,00.html

This articles states that "Overall, the U.S. comes out as an average performer in reading (rank 14 in OECD) and science (rank 17) but the U.S. drops below the OECD average in mathematics (rank 25). "

It isn't clear to me how suspending the student is going to make the school better.

I'd rather see something about teachers that fall asleep will be disciplined as will the people that hire them.

I might be in a minority, but I would like to see more emphasis on learning and less emphasis on rules that protect sleeping teachers and the school bureaucrats that hire them.

YMMV
Uno

 

[PlasmaBomb]

If the kid was carrying the cell phone and the policy is that cell phones are to be off and in the locker, then the kid is obviously in violation of that's rule.

officials said, "A student may possess a telecommunication device while on school premises"

The kids cell phone didn't have to be off and in the locker...

 

[LTC8K6]

The student is a whistle-blower. Whistle-blowers are generally protected from reprisals.

 

[PieIsAwesome]

Lol, suspension for using a phone.

Over here, there are always people texting or playing WoW in some classes. "Some" classes, because in others, the prof. will yell and curse at you and tell you to get the F out if he catches you.

People doing that annoy me and I'm just a student. If I were an instructor, it would drive me insane. But suspension is pretty over the top. The instructor kicking texting students out of class seems appropriate.

 

[KeithTalent]

I don't get the point of suspending a student. You misbehave and get a day off?

But it goes on your permanent record!

KT

 

[God Mode]

IMO, student did good. For too long in our history we let assholes get away with shit because it always ends up in a 'he said she said' situation where the more affluent person wins without much scrutiny. Time to record all the things and take out privileged corrupted bastards down a few pegs.

 

[Bulk Beef]

If you take out a gun in the school hallway without intent using it, is that ok? You are not using it, not hurting anyone. What's the big deal?

That's a shitty analogy, but since you brought it up, zero tolerance weapons policies are what get elementary school kids suspended for having butter knives packed with their lunches.

Zero tolerance simply removes the requirement and the opportunity for an administrator to exercise a little common sense or judgment.

 

[Paladin3]

I appreciate that it can be difficult sometimes to maintain order and keep students focused. But I would have more respect for school officials if they could keep up with Canada. See this article:

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5juGFSx9LiPaur6eO1KJAypB2ImVQ

The article states that "In Canada, 15-year-olds are more than one school year ahead of their US peers in math and more than half a school year ahead in reading and science ..."

Or this article:

http://www.oecd.org/document/7/0,3746,en_21571361_44315115_46635719_1_1_1_1,00.html

This articles states that "Overall, the U.S. comes out as an average performer in reading (rank 14 in OECD) and science (rank 17) but the U.S. drops below the OECD average in mathematics (rank 25). "

It isn't clear to me how suspending the student is going to make the school better.

I'd rather see something about teachers that fall asleep will be disciplined as will the people that hire them.

I might be in a minority, but I would like to see more emphasis on learning and less emphasis on rules that protect sleeping teachers and the school bureaucrats that hire them.

YMMV
Uno

I don't fault the U.S. schools for the poor performance, though, God knows, they're not really helping. It's mostly the bad parents who don't instill their children with any sense of responsibility to do well.

Very few countries are as full of citizens who demand their rights and ignore their responsibilities as the U.S. is. It is only natural that we have parents raising children who believe they don't owe anything to anyone, not even themselves.

Other countries and cultures value study and hard work and obligation to society. Here we value an individuals right to do whatever they want and not be told what to do. We call it living in a "free" country.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

If the kid was carrying the cell phone and the policy is that cell phones are to be off and in the locker, then the kid is obviously in violation of that's rule. The context of how he got caught has nothing to do with this.

Most likely, the substitute won't be substituting again.
Edit- suspension for cell phone use seems a little severe, if this was a first time offense. A better set of penalties is 1st time = parent has to go to the school to pick it up. 2nd offense = it's kept in the school office until the end of the year.

I used to drag a camera around school with me every day...

You're outline of punishments may be fine and dandy, but if he was just using it as a camera, then the school is being unduly unreasonable.

 

[GotIssues]

Dude, you've got more issues than your handle even hints at.

Are personal attacks really necessary? Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean you should be a complete asshole. Your personal attacks are neither provoked nor warranted. Either discuss like an adult or see yourself out the door.

I've worked in the public education system and I can tell you that zero tolerance rules help nobody except lazy administrators. Schools are perfectly willing to throw students under the bus so long as they can blame it on a zero tolerance rule and they don't have to make any decision that might later be questioned.

What did you do in the public education system? How big was the system? Size makes a huge difference. /thatswhatshesaid

The goal of public education is to educate our children so they can go on to become productive members of society. That goal should be paramount in any decision an administrator makes. The kid who took that picture was suspended from school because he embarrassed the administration and for no other reason. The administration just got lucky that they had the asinine zero tolerance rule in place so they could get away with it.

He got suspended for violating the rules that are clearly communicated. Cell phones in schools are a new problem and there will be issues as rules evolve.

That's a shitty analogy, but since you brought it up, zero tolerance weapons policies are what get elementary school kids suspended for having butter knives packed with their lunches.

Zero tolerance simply removes the requirement and the opportunity for an administrator to exercise a little common sense or judgment.

You think it's ridiculous until someone brings a butter knife and stabs another kid.

If they didn't make these rules and someone brought a butter knife to school and attacked another kid, you'd be pissed because rules weren't in place ahead of time. The rules are in place ahead of time and you are pissed because there is no reason the rules should be in place. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[GotIssues]

I used to drag a camera around school with me every day...

You're outline of punishments may be fine and dandy, but if he was just using it as a camera, then the school is being unduly unreasonable.

If you use an iPad to solely play solitaire, that does not make it a deck of cards. A phone is still a phone.

 

[ShawnD1]

As for the teacher, do whatever the policy has for punishment (I'm sure napping on the job would be in there) and be done with it.

How is napping any different from grading papers? In both cases, the teacher is not teaching, and the students are occupied by something else (ie in class assignment).

It could just as easily be said that half of the people in ATOT should be fired right now. I'm not working. I just sent off the thing I was working on, so now it's fuck around time. The only reason I'm not napping is because it looks bad; we have people from offices in other cities visiting.

 

[AznAnarchy99]

suspension for using a phone?? Is detention not a thing anymore?

When I was in high school most of my teachers had common sense. The administration however was a completely different thing and I got into many many verbal arguments (adding in the fact that I was a very passive aggressive teenager)

 

[Fayd]

You think it's ridiculous until someone brings a butter knife and stabs another kid.

with a butter knife?

when i attended school, i had probably 5-6 things in my backpack more deadly than a butter knife. pencils, drafting compass, etc.

no, schools institute zero tolerance policies in order to remove the requirement to think.

 

[Fayd]

How is napping any different from grading papers? In both cases, the teacher is not teaching, and the students are occupied by something else (ie in class assignment).

It could just as easily be said that half of the people in ATOT should be fired right now. I'm not working. I just sent off the thing I was working on, so now it's fuck around time. The only reason I'm not napping is because it looks bad; we have people from offices in other cities visiting.

a school teacher is there for more than just administering lesson plans. they're there to monitor the classroom. he can't exactly do that if he's sleeping.

 

[marvdmartian]

Geez, napping, or dead?? I'd be afraid to approach that guy, for fear that he'd suddenly come flailing up, all zombified, trying to eat my brains!!

 

[ShawnD1]

with a butter knife?

when i attended school, i had probably 5-6 things in my backpack more deadly than a butter knife. pencils, drafting compass, etc.

Certain pencils and pens would make effective weapons. A cheap Bic mechanical pencil is fairly safe because it's weak plastic and it will break easily, but the pencil on my desk here is pretty dangerous. The sides are very hard plastic, the tip is very pointed, and that pointy tip is metal. Getting stabbed in the gut with this pencil would suck.

a school teacher is there for more than just administering lesson plans. they're there to monitor the classroom. he can't exactly do that if he's sleeping.

If the class gets out of hand, it would obviously make enough noise to wake the teacher.

 

[dainthomas]

They are still responsible for all work assigned that day, assignments, projects, etc, on the same time table as every one else. And they lose any participation points for the day or any work that was assigned and due that day.

You may not be at school, but it does hurt your grade. If you care about that.

People who get suspended are often the type who don't care. So they fall more behind, do worse, and care less. Good plan.

The only kids suspension would likely be effective for would be those who don't normally get in trouble.

 

[SphinxnihpS]

If you use an iPad to solely play solitaire, that does not make it a deck of cards. A phone is still a phone.

Bad analogy, but it doesn't seem you're too on top of logic anyway as you support zero tolerance policies. Just leave the thinking to others and go by the book.

 

[Paladin3]

Are personal attacks really necessary? Just because you don't agree with me doesn't mean you should be a complete asshole. Your personal attacks are neither provoked nor warranted. Either discuss like an adult or see yourself out the door.

I guess the personal attack is rather rude, but so is replying that I am acting like a complete asshole and then telling me to either discuss like an adult or leave.

What did you do in the public education system? How big was the system? Size makes a huge difference. /thatswhatshesaid

Um...isn't that a personal attack? You are suggesting that my opinion doesn't mater or is somehow invalid because I may have come from a small school district.

For the record, I worked at a school district in a large middle class suburb of Los Angeles, CA. I was a librarian and classroom technology aide in middle and elementary schools.

He got suspended for violating the rules that are clearly communicated. Cell phones in schools are a new problem and there will be issues as rules evolve.

What does it matter how well the rule was communicated? Cell phones in schoosl are very old problems, at least a dozen years or so. My argument is that ANY zero tolerance rule is silly and are put in place to relieve the administration from having to use good judgment when resolving an issue.

How the hell can kicking a kid out of school for anything short of violence help anyone? Does anyone think it will make him a better student?

You think it's ridiculous until someone brings a butter knife and stabs another kid.

If they didn't make these rules and someone brought a butter knife to school and attacked another kid, you'd be pissed because rules weren't in place ahead of time. The rules are in place ahead of time and you are pissed because there is no reason the rules should be in place. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Stop with the straw man arguments. I don't think it's cool for kids to stab each other with knives, and nothing I said indicates so. You are trying to be sensational.

Assault is illegal! Packing a weapon is illegal! Why do we need zero tolerance rules that force us to expel students from school for biting their chicken nuggets into the shape of a gun? Are we safer for doing so? Are we teaching better for doing so? Does the student or anyone else benefit from such a ridiculously rigid rule?

If one of my students had caught one of our teachers sleeping and snapped a cell-phone pic of it, any of the principals I've ever worked for would have been ashamed. The would have apologized to the kid's parent, not suspended him as a punishment for embarrassing them.