Student Disciplined for wearing Controversial T-Shirt

[Comet]

Saw this article recently, and the controversy behind it seems to be gaining some momentum.

LancasterOnline Article Link

The High school student recently wore a t-shirt to school which is described here

On the front pocket, in addition to the picture of the military sidearm, were the words: "Volunteer Homeland Security." On the back, superimposed over another image of the weapon, the words "Special issue ? Resident ? Lifetime License ? United States Terrorist Hunting Permit ? Permit No. 91101 Gun Owner ? No Bag Limit."

He received the t-shirt as a gift from his uncle, a soldier serving in Iraq, and claims that the shirt is patriotic.

In early December, he wore the shirt to Penn Manor High School. No one said a word about it all day, he said, until his final period, when a classmate complained to the teacher. The teacher asked him to turn the shirt inside out, but he refused. Miller was sent to the principal's office.

His behavior, and infraction of the school's policy resulted in detention.

In my opinion the child's mother is pursuing litigation for the money, she made no effort to resolve the matter with the school's officials, and now will undoubtedly cost the school countless amounts in legal fees.

The school has rules in which all of the student have to abide by, and sooner or later this kid will realize after he graduates and gets a job that he cannot just where whatever he wants, and has to follow a dress code.

Just the fact that guns are pictured on the shirt is enough to ban him from wearing it in school, and the fact that it advocates indiscriminate violence (no bag limit), and vigilante violence (resident terrorist hunting permit) does not help him either.

I like the fact that he wants to support our troops, but he could find a more appropriate shirt, and have a feeling he chose to wear it to gain popularity among his friends. The school has a dress code. I do believe students should have the right to wear what they want, and it would be sad to see this school assign students uniforms to prevent future conflict, but in this particular incident I believe the student crossed the line.

Alternate Biased Article

 

[GodlessAstronomer]

He wasn't punished for wearing the t-shirt, he was punished for refusing to turn it inside out. End of story. Anyway, dress codes don't constitute violations of free speech.

 

[1prophet]

School uniforms would eliminate this and many other problems, perhaps with a little flexibility like allowing seniors to have a casual friday.

 

[IronWing]

He should follow the rules of his school and not wear the shirt. The content of the shirt only matters in that it violates a school policy.

Our local school district had a "no message" dress code for years. Basically, it said that students couldn't wear clothes with any messages on them, whether big ass brand names, sports teams (other than school team), political, humorous, etc. The policy has been discontinued which is too bad as it avoided lots of problems like the one described above.

 

[yllus]

I'm generally all about the free speech - to the point where I think that my own country shouldn't have deported/refused citizenship to Ernst Zundel for his Holocaust denial nonsense - but schools are tough enough to teach in with zero disruptions. You don't need a bunch of no-nothing teenagers getting hot under the collar debating TV/movie-derived politics when they should be studying math or history.

 

[Slick5150]

I question the motivation of anyone who's first post on Anandtech is starting a new thread in P&N.

In other words, what's your other user ID that you use here?

 

[Comet]

Originally posted by: Slick5150
I question the motivation of anyone who's first post on Anandtech is starting a new thread in P&N.

In other words, what's your other user ID that you use here?

Have not had another user ID prior to this, although I have browsed through the forums a few times a week for the past month or so. I've just never had the motivation to create an account until now. I am a high school student in this region and am interested in hearing others opinions on the topic.

 

[Exterous]

Originally posted by: yllus
I'm generally all about the free speech - to the point where I think that my own country shouldn't have deported/refused citizenship to Ernst Zundel for his Holocaust denial nonsense - but schools are tough enough to teach in with zero disruptions. You don't need a bunch of no-nothing teenagers getting hot under the collar debating TV/movie-derived politics when they should be studying math or history.

The teacher made a reasonable request (which includes turning a potentially disrupting shirt inside out) and he refused which is insubordination - at least in the school my wife teaches in. Fvck the lady for suing

Haven't previous rulings found that the First Amendment does not fully apply in schools?

 

[extra]

Good, I hope he wins. Perhaps then we can finally get this kind of crap behind us. The teacher should have told the complaining student to sit down and stop whining. If things have gotten so absurd that a *picture* of a gun offends you at school...I just don't know what to say.

 

[JD50]

Not appropriate for school.

 

[piasabird]

School was within their rights. The shirt was just too inflamatory and could have caused a riot. It may have even been considered racist or possibly pro-violent. This is similar to maintaining a website with a target over some doctor that works at an abortion clinic. While not illegal, it could be considered to be encouraging violence by others.

Students do not have freedom of speech. However, if other people get to where offensive t-shirts then that may be another separate issue.

 

[Brainonska511]

Originally posted by: piasabird
School was within their rights. The shirt was just too inflamatory and could have caused a riot. It may have even been considered racist or possibly pro-violent. This is similar to maintaining a website with a target over some doctor that works at an abortion clinic. While not illegal, it could be considered to be encouraging violence by others.

Students do not have freedom of speech. However, if other people get to where offensive t-shirts then that may be another separate issue.

You're wrong. Students do have free speech, along with all their other constitutional rights. It is just superseded by the other 2 priorities of the school - providing a safe environment and educating students. As long as the free speech does not interfere with the first two priorities of the school, there should be no issue.

Just one example: Tinker vs. Des Moines

 

[1prophet]

Originally posted by: piasabird
School was within their rights. The shirt was just too inflamatory and could have caused a riot. It may have even been considered racist or possibly pro-violent. This is similar to maintaining a website with a target over some doctor that works at an abortion clinic. While not illegal, it could be considered to be encouraging violence by others.

Students do not have freedom of speech. However, if other people get to where offensive t-shirts then that may be another separate issue.

What race do terrorists belong to, since last I checked they could be of any color or ethnicity?

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: Comet

The High school student recently wore a t-shirt to school which is described here

On the front pocket, in addition to the picture of the military sidearm, ...

Gun paraphernalia? That's an automatic No No in schools...sorry kid, find another wanna be bad @ss shirt to wear...

Chuck

 

[TheVrolok]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Comet

The High school student recently wore a t-shirt to school which is described here

On the front pocket, in addition to the picture of the military sidearm, ...

Gun paraphernalia? That's an automatic No No in schools...sorry kid, find another wanna be bad @ss shirt to wear...

Chuck

Pretty much.

 

[Nebor]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Comet

The High school student recently wore a t-shirt to school which is described here

On the front pocket, in addition to the picture of the military sidearm, ...

Gun paraphernalia? That's an automatic No No in schools...sorry kid, find another wanna be bad @ss shirt to wear...

Chuck

It is 100% ridiculous that you can't wear a shirt with a picture of a gun on it. But a shirt with a picture of a tank, or a knife, or a spear, no one would think twice about.

 

[hellokeith]

Originally posted by: 1prophet
School uniforms would eliminate this and many other problems, perhaps with a little flexibility like allowing seniors to have a casual friday.

:thumbsup:

Schools are not a democracy.

 

[Rainsford]

I think chucky2 hit the nail right on the head here, you can't wear shirts with gun paraphernalia to school...no matter how cool you think the political message is.

But what I find more amusing is that the kid thought it was "patriotic". Is this the kind of bumper sticker bullshit that passes for "patriotism" now? It used to be you had to do something to actually help your country and what it stands for, now all you need to do is have the ability to slap down $20 at some Cafepress store for a tshirt with a brainless slogan or a flag on it. Which I suppose makes it easier for the people who want to label themselves patriots without having to actually DO anything to deserve the title, but I can't help but think folks like this kid cheapen the whole concept a little.

Still, the fact that he's a twit in no way affect my opinion of what the school did. Wearing "message" shirts is pretty thin ice at most schools I've heard of, and ANYTHING having to do with guns is a pretty big no-no for anyone with half a brain. I don't find what the school did at all inconsistent with decades of school policy all over the country, the fact that you might like (or dislike) with the content of the shirt doesn't change that.

 

[BoomerD]

I have a couple of t-shirts that much to my wife's dismay, I wear out in public, offensive as they are, but I NEVER wear them to school, even though I attend college not high school. I just don't feel it's the appropriate place or venue for them. However, I will wear them to the grocery store, the mall, or where ever else I choose. If you don't like what they say, don't look.

Schools have rules for a reason. To keep the students under their thumbs...I mean to help eliminate distractions and enhance the learning atmosphere...:roll'

 

[JEDIYoda]

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: piasabird
School was within their rights. The shirt was just too inflamatory and could have caused a riot. It may have even been considered racist or possibly pro-violent. This is similar to maintaining a website with a target over some doctor that works at an abortion clinic. While not illegal, it could be considered to be encouraging violence by others.

Students do not have freedom of speech. However, if other people get to where offensive t-shirts then that may be another separate issue.

You're wrong. Students do have free speech, along with all their other constitutional rights. It is just superseded by the other 2 priorities of the school - providing a safe environment and educating students. As long as the free speech does not interfere with the first two priorities of the school, there should be no issue.

Just one example: Tinker vs. Des Moines

spoken like a kid still in school!
No children do NOT have freedom of speech!!

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: JEDIYoda

Originally posted by: Brainonska511

Originally posted by: piasabird
School was within their rights. The shirt was just too inflamatory and could have caused a riot. It may have even been considered racist or possibly pro-violent. This is similar to maintaining a website with a target over some doctor that works at an abortion clinic. While not illegal, it could be considered to be encouraging violence by others.

Students do not have freedom of speech. However, if other people get to where offensive t-shirts then that may be another separate issue.

You're wrong. Students do have free speech, along with all their other constitutional rights. It is just superseded by the other 2 priorities of the school - providing a safe environment and educating students. As long as the free speech does not interfere with the first two priorities of the school, there should be no issue.

Just one example: Tinker vs. Des Moines

spoken like a kid still in school!
No children do NOT have freedom of speech!!

Actually, they do (to some extent). Read the Tinker case. Students have free speech to the extent that their speech doesn't substantially interfere with school discipline or the rights of others. A teacher would not, for example, be permitted to punish a student for wearing a wristband supporting a cause she didn't agree with. However, shirts like the one the student was wearing are disruptive and thus not protected speech. But limited or not, students do have rights to free speech that the school can't arbitrarily violate.

 

[jackschmittusa]

"If you're gonna do the crime, you better be able to do the time." The kid broke the rules. He was advised of the rules, and was instructed to remedy the situation without penalty. By refusing, he willingly acquired the penalty.

Seems pretty cut and dried to me.

And I agree with Rainsford that many people seem to think wearing a T-shirt or slapping a decal on their cars somehow means that they have demonstrated their patriotism. The politicians have taught them well; just do or say something cheap and easy with that "feel good" element in it, no need to actually contribute anything.

 

[TallBill]

He should be allowed to wear the shirt, but the school has every right to punish him for refusing to turn it inside out.

 

[TallBill]

Originally posted by: 1prophet
School uniforms would eliminate this and many other problems, perhaps with a little flexibility like allowing seniors to have a casual friday.

That's the dumbest thing that I've read all day. Granted, the day just began, but still.

 

[WhipperSnapper]

Maybe the school district should just institute a dress code requiring people to wear either shirts without images or shirts with images of benign pink bunnies. I hope the boy and his mother win the lawsuit. Not allowing someone to wear a patriotic T-shirt is ridiculous.