Stud from front right wheel broken again

[MiataGirl]

Okay, so a week ago my mom in her Accord broke off a stud (I think that's the name..the screw thing that the lugs are connected to), in her front right wheel..so he took it to a mechanic and they took off the whole axle and replaced it. Cost him $60 for labor. What happened was my dad was trying to take off the front right wheel, one of the lugs just wouldn't budge, so he pried at it until the lug came off..along with half of the stud still STUCK to the lug.

Today then, we took the car to Costco to get the tires changed. Now what they did was replace the front tires and rotated them..so we have our old tires in the front and the new ones in the back. My dad decided to do some brake work on the car as well since they seemed to be fading a bit. However, again one of the lugs in the front wheel just wouldn't come off. He could twist it a bit like last time, but it's not coming off easily...and we're sure that if twists some more it'll break off like last time. There doesn't seem to be a way to tell if it's the stud we recently replaced or what..but it is the same axle and a different wheel.

Now, the car rides finely and all except for some brake work that's needed..it's just that the front right wheel isn't coming off and it's probably only connected by 3 lugs right now. Can we take the car back to Costco and see what they can do? What could possibly cause a car's lug to completely warp itself a stud?

 

[JC]

Japanese cars (especially) tend to get seized-on lug nuts. I have a broken one on the front of my 626

Solution is use some white lithium grease on the studs whenever a wheel's off. That will keep the nut from seizing, or galling the threads.

JC

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: JC
Japanese cars (especially) tend to get seized-on lug nuts. I have a broken one on the front of my 626

Solution is use some white lithium grease on the studs whenever a wheel's off. That will keep the nut from seizing, or galling the threads.

JC

never ever grease wheel studs. Ever!

tell the poeple who are changing the tires not to over torque them. There is a limit. Pass it and things break. Charge Cosco for replacements if they are over the recomended limit.

 

[JC]

Dude, the problem is corrosion between the lug and the stud, due to the steel they use. You have to use something to stop the corrosion....just the correct torque won't fix it!

Use antiseize if you have a problem with white grease. With the proper torque, the grease doesn't cause loosening or anything like that

 

[JC]

Besides, dry threads cause incorrect torque readings. You know about that, right?

 

[Evadman]

Originally posted by: JC
Dude, the problem is corrosion between the lug and the stud, due to the steel they use. You have to use something to stop the corrosion....just the correct torque won't fix it!

Use antiseize if you have a problem with white grease. With the proper torque, the grease doesn't cause loosening or anything like that

Grease is expressly forbiden in every automotive book and by every decent mechanic on the planet. If the problem is galvimetric corrosion, use a corrosion inhibitor, not grease.

And actually, yes. It can cause looseining. Haynes was sued for that very reason, which is why it now states explicity, in the section on basic maintnance, to never use grease on wheel studs.

<edit>
Yes, I know about dry threads. That is what thread locker is for.

 

[MiataGirl]

Originally posted by: Evadman

Originally posted by: JC
Dude, the problem is corrosion between the lug and the stud, due to the steel they use. You have to use something to stop the corrosion....just the correct torque won't fix it!

Use antiseize if you have a problem with white grease. With the proper torque, the grease doesn't cause loosening or anything like that

Grease is expressly forbiden in every automotive book and by every decent mechanic on the planet. If the problem is galvimetric corrosion, use a corrosion inhibitor, not grease.

And actually, yes. It can cause looseining. Haynes was sued for that very reason, which is why it now states explicity, in the section on basic maintnance, to never use grease on wheel studs.

<edit>
Yes, I know about dry threads. That is what thread locker is for.

Hmm, what do you recommend for my future nut problems?

 

[jer22]

are the wheels stock? if so, was that one curbed at any time? it might have disconfigured that stud mount and put it in a bind. you might need a new rotor, just a thought. jer , i'm assuming it has front disks, (think so)

 

[JC]

You need proper torque and something to prevent the corrosion on the studs. I'll leave Evadman to recommend a product

JC

 

[MiataGirl]

Originally posted by: jer22
are the wheels stock? if so, was that one curbed at any time? it might have disconfigured that stud mount and put it in a bind. you might need a new rotor, just a thought. jer

Hmm, I remember my mom replacing her rotor a few months ago..or rather she got them smoothened out and they seemed to be as good as new. The wheels are stock yes, but both times it's been the front right wheel that's had the bad lug..and it's been through a rotation so it's been a different wheel on each occcassion..

 

[Evadman]

I assume this is what happened?

First, Torque them correctly.

Correct torque settings baised on stud diameter

Use an anti-seize, like JC recomended, Such as Locktite Brand when you put the lug nuts back on.

From now on, use sharp blows to remove the lug nuts expecialy when they are torqued excessively. You want to use a sharp blow to break the nut loose from the stud ( or use an air gun, but most people do not have one ) Using a long pipe, or a extension bar and slowly pressing is actually worse. Then you just rotate the shaft of the stud, which will snap it off if there is the slightest fatigue or corrosion crack.

 

[jer22]

the wheels move, the rotors usually stay the same, turning the rotors or "smoothing " them doesn't mean the rotors have moved it just means they've been resurfaced for better perfomance. a bad stud porthole (for lack of better description) probably won't change with a tire rotation or a turning. we don't have costco down here in texas, but a visit to a reputable automotive shop would be advisable. jer

 

[yakko]

Originally posted by: MiataGirl
Hmm, what do you recommend for my future nut problems?

If you fix my nuts I will fix yours.

I use a copper based anti seize from Wurth. I have never had a siezed lug bolt yet.

 

[XCLAN]

Originally posted by: yakko

Originally posted by: MiataGirl
Hmm, what do you recommend for my future nut problems?

If you fix my nuts I will fix yours.

I use a copper based anti seize from Wurth. I have never had a siezed lug bolt yet.

I use graphite based anti sieze.....just a very very small amount...can get at most hardware stores.

 

[BooneRebel]

If the axle was just replaced then corrosion probably isn't the issue. I'm surprised I haven't seen the suggestion yet, but it's common for mechanics with air wrenches to torque the lugs too tight, even when they use a 'torque stick'. Tell your dad to take the car back to Costco to have them remove the lugs, since they were the last to work on it. If the stud snaps then they're responsible and should replace it then and there. Once the lugs are off (have them do all four tires), insist that they hand tighten the lugs back to the specified torque. Every shop I've been to will use air wrenches unless you specify, but if you ask they will hand torque. Had to learn this the hard way after going through a similar experience and taking my truck back to the mechanic to have them replace a stud.

 

[Tominator]

Originally posted by: BooneRebel
If the axle was just replaced then corrosion probably isn't the issue. I'm surprised I haven't seen the suggestion yet, but it's common for mechanics with air wrenches to torque the lugs too tight, even when they use a 'torque stick'. Tell your dad to take the car back to Costco to have them remove the lugs, since they were the last to work on it. If the stud snaps then they're responsible and should replace it then and there. Once the lugs are off (have them do all four tires), insist that they hand tighten the lugs back to the specified torque. Every shop I've been to will use air wrenches unless you specify, but if you ask they will hand torque. Had to learn this the hard way after going through a similar experience and taking my truck back to the mechanic to have them replace a stud.

That hit the nail on the head. The proper torque is the key! It is VERY important and most shops do not torque the wheel nuts. This leads to broken studs, cracked alloy rims and even warped rotors as well as misdiagnosed front wheel problems.

 

[rudder]

Originally posted by: yakko

Originally posted by: MiataGirl
Hmm, what do you recommend for my future nut problems?

If you fix my nuts I will fix yours.

I use a copper based anti seize from Wurth. I have never had a siezed lug bolt yet.

Well at least I am not too dissappointed in this thread. With all this talk about nuts and studs and at least there was 1 crude reference.

 

[yakko]

Originally posted by: Tominator

Originally posted by: BooneRebel
If the axle was just replaced then corrosion probably isn't the issue. I'm surprised I haven't seen the suggestion yet, but it's common for mechanics with air wrenches to torque the lugs too tight, even when they use a 'torque stick'. Tell your dad to take the car back to Costco to have them remove the lugs, since they were the last to work on it. If the stud snaps then they're responsible and should replace it then and there. Once the lugs are off (have them do all four tires), insist that they hand tighten the lugs back to the specified torque. Every shop I've been to will use air wrenches unless you specify, but if you ask they will hand torque. Had to learn this the hard way after going through a similar experience and taking my truck back to the mechanic to have them replace a stud.

That hit the nail on the head. The proper torque is the key! It is VERY important and most shops do not torque the wheel nuts. This leads to broken studs, cracked alloy rims and even warped rotors as well as misdiagnosed front wheel problems.

Now you know why I do the work myself. Of course I also have the advantage of using the tire mounting machin and wheel balancer at my old shop too.

 

[MiataGirl]

Originally posted by: BooneRebel
If the axle was just replaced then corrosion probably isn't the issue. I'm surprised I haven't seen the suggestion yet, but it's common for mechanics with air wrenches to torque the lugs too tight, even when they use a 'torque stick'. Tell your dad to take the car back to Costco to have them remove the lugs, since they were the last to work on it. If the stud snaps then they're responsible and should replace it then and there. Once the lugs are off (have them do all four tires), insist that they hand tighten the lugs back to the specified torque. Every shop I've been to will use air wrenches unless you specify, but if you ask they will hand torque. Had to learn this the hard way after going through a similar experience and taking my truck back to the mechanic to have them replace a stud.

Hmm, okay so we took the car to Costco today, and told them of the problem. They tried their guns on the lug, but it wouldn't come off. They concluded that if they were to use a wrench that it would break off..which is a proper conclusion.

They said that I could take it to a mechanic, have them fix it, and they'd pay for it Not a bad deal.

 

[jlee]

They said that I could take it to a mechanic, have them fix it, and they'd pay for it Not a bad deal.

Get it in writing.

 

[notfred]

(I think that's the name..the screw thing that the lugs are connected to)

And you guys thought she was lying about being a girl

 

[Bluefront]

Sounds like you lucked out with your broken stud. That being said, I'd like one question answered. It was asserted by several people in this thread, not to put any sort of lubrication or grease on the studs. At the same time several people said it was ok to put anti-seize compound on the studs. Can someone tell me what is the difference?

If you use the anti-seize stuff, the affect is the same as using plain old grease, as far as causing any problems are concerned. Explain to me what the use of grease would do that is bad....the anti-seize stuff would act like grease, just would protect against seizing more than the grease.

Personally, I've use lubrication of all kinds on wheel studs for many years.....with absolutely no problems.