Stubborn Congressman Tries to block Federal MJ Legalization bill

[Vette73]

Doesn't sound like this bill is legalizing MJ.

The goal of the bill, HR 2306, is not to legalize marijuana but to remove it from the list of federally controlled substances while allowing states to decide how they will regulate it.

In other words a republican blocking the federal gov from returning states powers. :hmm:


But one thing he said looked dumb. Has, or can, the FDA approve a use for an illegal drug?
FDA: We approve crack cocaine as treatment for restless leg syn...

 

[xj0hnx]

Much of what he said was true even if you don't like it. There are tobacco smugglers now, don't expect this to hurt the cartel business especially since there are other drugs still in the stream.

Most of what he said is not true, and that which has a hint of truth is heavily over exaggerated. The only reason it's "abused" is because it is illegal, you don't say people are "abusing cigarettes" yet most smokers smoke more cigarettes in a day than pot smokers smoke joints. It is not a "gateway" drug, that honor goes to alcohol more so than pot. It does indeed have medical use, as thousands of people, and doctors have proven. Just about the only thing legalizing it will not do is stem cartel violence because they will still be smuggling heroin, cocaine, meth, slaves, etc...

 

[Genx87]

Much of what he said was true even if you don't like it. There are tobacco smugglers now, don't expect this to hurt the cartel business especially since there are other drugs still in the stream.

What % of the tobacco industry do you think is black market?

Compare that to drug cartels % of the MJ industry? There will always be a black market. But there is little doubt legalizing and regulating MJ would utterly destroy the black market the cartels live within today.

 

[davmat787]

Most other people have an opinion one way or the other, but it's not a matter of great pressing concern because they are not dopeheads. Legal or not doesn't impact me if I'm not a dumb doper.

It could via increased tax revenue.

 

[davmat787]

Doesn't sound like this bill is legalizing MJ.

The goal of the bill, HR 2306, is not to legalize marijuana but to remove it from the list of federally controlled substances while allowing states to decide how they will regulate it.

Which is an important distinction. Currently, MJ is a schedule 1 controlled substance, while Cocaine is merely a schedule 2. Now how does that make sense? Alcohol is more dangerous FFS.

disclaimer: I am NOT in favor of any legislation regarding cocaine, only in decriminalizing MJ.

 

[PokerGuy]

Not true, I do not smoke anything and I would love to see this mild drug legalized and taxed.

You fall into the "have an opinion, but it's not a huge pressing concern" category.

Look, this has been brought up in other threads, but there are really two very separate discussions.

First, there's the discussion of decriminalization and what the effects might be in terms of reducing crime, hurting cartels, freeing up jail space and all that stuff. Included is also the libertarian perspective that government should not be involved in that decision at all. I agree with all that.

Then, there's the OP's perspective of "hey, this is great, now I can be a dumb dopehead without facing possible nasty consequences!". Using this stuff is stupid, legal or not. Anyone who isn't a doper is not concerned with those consequences of using it, they care about the stuff in the previous paragraph.

 

[xj0hnx]

Which is an important distinction. Currently, MJ is a schedule 1 controlled substance, while Cocaine is merely a schedule 2. Now how does that make sense? Alcohol is more dangerous FFS.

Cocaine is still used in some nasal surgery because of it's constricting effects on the capillaries.

disclaimer: I am NOT in favor of any legislation regarding cocaine, only in decriminalizing MJ.

Why not? Other than pot having known medical value, all the same arguments apply, the only difference is the social stigma attached to cocaine.

 

[PokerGuy]

Fat gamblers

lol Wut?

 

[fskimospy]

You fall into the "have an opinion, but it's not a huge pressing concern" category.

Look, this has been brought up in other threads, but there are really two very separate discussions.

First, there's the discussion of decriminalization and what the effects might be in terms of reducing crime, hurting cartels, freeing up jail space and all that stuff. Included is also the libertarian perspective that government should not be involved in that decision at all. I agree with all that.

Then, there's the OP's perspective of "hey, this is great, now I can be a dumb dopehead without facing possible nasty consequences!". Using this stuff is stupid, legal or not. Anyone who isn't a doper is not concerned with those consequences of using it, they care about the stuff in the previous paragraph.

How are people who smoke pot 'dumb dopeheads'? Do you consider people who drink to be dumb boozeheads?

 

[PokerGuy]

Ending alcohol prohibition put the bootleggers out of business, there's no reason that MJ legalization wouldn't do the same to pot smugglers.

You're smoking something (pardon the pun) if you think any legalization of any of this stuff will put the cartels "out of business". They will do what criminal organizations have always done, they will simply shift their focus to other forms of crime to get their money. The criminals will not vanish just because you decriminalize one aspect of their business.

 

[fskimospy]

You're smoking something (pardon the pun) if you think any legalization of any of this stuff will put the cartels "out of business". They will do what criminal organizations have always done, they will simply shift their focus to other forms of crime to get their money. The criminals will not vanish just because you decriminalize one aspect of their business.

But they will become vastly less powerful. Ending prohibition didn't get rid of the mob in the US, but it sure as hell reduced their power.

 

[xj0hnx]

You're smoking something (pardon the pun) if you think any legalization of any of this stuff will put the cartels "out of business". They will do what criminal organizations have always done, they will simply shift their focus to other forms of crime to get their money. The criminals will not vanish just because you decriminalize one aspect of their business.

No, it won't, but decriminalization of drugs will go a LOOOONG way towards lessening their presence in the States. Legalizing weed alone will do next to nothing to end cartel violence this side of the border.

 

[PokerGuy]

How are people who smoke pot 'dumb dopeheads'?

Anyone who is willing to take on potentially draconian potentially devastating life consequences (jail, losing your job, big fines) just to smoke something and get high for a few minutes is a moron. A dumb dopehead.

Do you consider people who drink to be dumb boozeheads?

If you do something like drinking and driving, or you become an alcoholic, then yes. Otherwise, you're consuming a perfectly legal product without assuming undue risk.

Lets put it this way, if eating M&M's puts could land you in jail for 30 years, would you eat M&M's? No, not unless you're stupid. I'd say the law making M&M's use punishable that way is crazy, but until that got resolved I'd stay away from them.

 

[davmat787]

You're smoking something (pardon the pun) if you think any legalization of any of this stuff will put the cartels "out of business". They will do what criminal organizations have always done, they will simply shift their focus to other forms of crime to get their money. The criminals will not vanish just because you decriminalize one aspect of their business.

Agree with this, but I think much of their revenue would then come from sources outside the US. Or, rather than smuggling MJ in, they use their tunnels and expertise smuggling illegal immigrants in. Get more active in the Coyote biz as such. *shrug*

 

[PokerGuy]

But they will become vastly less powerful. Ending prohibition didn't get rid of the mob in the US, but it sure as hell reduced their power.

I'm not so sure about that. The mob just moved into other rackets until the federal government went after them in earnest, including using the RICO statutes to go after a lot of mobsters. That's when they took a hit, but the crime itself never went away.

 

[fskimospy]

I'm not so sure about that. The mob just moved into other rackets until the federal government went after them in earnest, including using the RICO statutes to go after a lot of mobsters. That's when they took a hit, but the crime itself never went away.

You think the mob was as powerful after prohibition ended as it was before? What are you basing this on?

 

[fskimospy]

Anyone who is willing to take on potentially draconian potentially devastating life consequences (jail, losing your job, big fines) just to smoke something and get high for a few minutes is a moron. A dumb dopehead.



If you do something like drinking and driving, or you become an alcoholic, then yes. Otherwise, you're consuming a perfectly legal product without assuming undue risk.

Lets put it this way, if eating M&M's puts could land you in jail for 30 years, would you eat M&M's? No, not unless you're stupid. I'd say the law making M&M's use punishable that way is crazy, but until that got resolved I'd stay away from them.

So basically somewhere north of 40% of all people in America are dumb dopeheads?

 

[PokerGuy]

Why not? Other than pot having known medical value, all the same arguments apply, the only difference is the social stigma attached to cocaine.

No, there's another huge difference. Coke creates a physical dependency, addiction that is (apparently) very hard to shake.

 

[shira]

Most other people have an opinion one way or the other, but it's not a matter of great pressing concern because they are not dopeheads. Legal or not doesn't impact me if I'm not a dumb doper.

It has a huge affect on you, unless your believe that government wasting tens of billions of dollars each year fighting MJ (includes prison costs, criminal-justice costs, lost productivity, and opportunity costs) has no effect on you.

 

[PokerGuy]

So basically somewhere north of 40% of all people in America are dumb dopeheads?

I haven't seen the stats, but if 40% of people are using the stuff then yes, 40% of people are stupid dopeheads. The number of people doing it is irrelevant. The stupidity of doing something for small benefit (a short high) in the face of huge potential negative consequences is unequivocal.

 

[PokerGuy]

It has a huge affect on you

Please read the rest of the thread

 

[fskimospy]

I haven't seen the stats, but if 40% of people are using the stuff then yes, 40% of people are stupid dopeheads. The number of people doing it is irrelevant. The stupidity of doing something for small benefit (a short high) in the face of huge potential negative consequences is unequivocal.

Very few of those people are actually risking those consequences. My point was to show you that maybe your idea of the what marijuana smoking entails are a bit off.

 

[xj0hnx]

No, there's another huge difference. Coke creates a physical dependency, addiction that is (apparently) very hard to shake.

So do alcohol and cigarettes, as well as many legitimate, legal medications, that is irrelevant. Cocaine is a lot less physically addictive than nicotine.

 

[PokerGuy]

You think the mob was as powerful after prohibition ended as it was before? What are you basing this on?

What are you basing the opposite assumption on? If memory serves, the mob really became a big problem in the 50's and 60's, prompting the feds to go after them. I'm not sure how to compare the "power" of the mob over the decades though.

 

[dank69]

Anyone who is willing to take on potentially draconian potentially devastating life consequences (jail, losing your job, big fines) just to smoke something and get high for a few minutes is a moron. A dumb dopehead...

You act as if an infinitly small chance of minor consequences is a real risk. First of all nobody goes to jail for smoking a joint unless there are other factors and not all employers care if you smoke weed. Let's try not to blow things out of proportion for the sake of argument.