Strom Thurmond dead

[Syringer]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,90549,00.html

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

A hundred eh? Must have seen a lot of change in his lifetime. He would have remembered WWI

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
A hundred eh? Must have seen a lot of change in his lifetime. He would have remembered WWI

And the civil rights marches in the '60s.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
A hundred eh? Must have seen a lot of change in his lifetime. He would have remembered WWI

My grandma is 99. She remembers it, along with the Depression, WWII, Korea, etc, etc. Pretty cool. She had an uncle who fought in the Civil War.

 

[tcsenter]

A hundred eh? Must have seen a lot of change in his lifetime. He would have remembered WWI

Well I should hope he would remember WWII:

"Though his long career brought him national prominence, Mr. Thurmond was better known in the Senate for looking out for South Carolina and the United States Army than for any particular legislation he sponsored. As a lieutenant colonel in an Army civil affairs unit in 1944, he landed in France by glider on D-Day and captured German soldiers at pistol point. He was awarded the Bronze Star for valor and the French Croix de Guerre."


"In 1941, Mr. Thurmond joined the Army as a captain. After the invasion of Normandy, his civil affairs unit was among the first to arrive at the Nazi death camp at Buchenwald. In 1996 he remembered the ways the Germans had murdered their victims ? by starvation or shooting or bashing in their skulls. "I had never seen such inhuman acts in my life," he said. "I couldn't dream of men treating men in such a manner. It was awful."

NY Times Obituary, Strom Thurmond

 

[Piano Man]

Didn't like the man and I never agreed with his views, but I'm saddened by his death. It appears he died peacefully with his family around him, and I'm sure he took comfort in that.

 

[0roo0roo]

you bet he's seen many changes. he was the one that said "there's not enough troops in the army to force the southern people to break down segregation and admit the n*gger race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches!"

 

[tcsenter]

you bet he's seen many changes. he was the one that said "there's not enough troops in the army to force the southern people to break down segregation and admit the n*gger race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches!"

Well that would be one way to paraphrase Thurmond's actual comments. A wrong one, but one nonetheless...

Thurmond also is noted for:

"In 1938, he campaigned hard among his fellow legislators, and they elected him a circuit judge, which provided an opportunity for him to become known statewide and broaden his political contacts. In 1940, he called on the grand jury in Greenville to be ready to take action against the Ku Klux Klan, which, he said, represented "the most abominable type of lawlessness." Years later, as a United States senator, he insisted that the four death sentences he had imposed as a judge had deterred crime."

"A month after he took office in 1947, a mob in Greenville lynched a black man accused of robbing and killing a white taxi driver. As governor, Mr. Thurmond brought in a tough prosecutor, but a jury acquitted all 28 white defendants. Mr. Thurmond was widely praised for his efforts, and he said he believed the prosecution would deter lynchings in the future. South Carolina has never had another lynching."

"In many areas, Mr. Thurmond was a progressive governor, pressing to improve black schools, promoting equal pay for women and fighting for better working conditions at textile mills. He even called for rent control. And when a federal judge, J. Waties Waring, ordered the state Democratic Party to allow blacks to vote in the primaries, Governor Thurmond kept silent, neither denouncing nor praising the decision."

"In 1971, he was among the first Southern senators to hire a black aide ? in recognition of increased black voting resulting from the legislation he had fought. From then on, black South Carolinians, like all other residents, benefited from his skills as a pork-barrel politician who took care of the home folks."

"He hired Thomas Moss of Orangeburg, a state director of the Voter Education Project, which sought to encourage blacks to register to vote. Mr. Moss was the first black employed by any of South Carolina's members of Congress. For a quarter of a century, Mr. Moss worked for the senator and for black South Carolinians, using Mr. Thurmond's clout to win sewer grants for black hamlets and grants for black colleges and small businesses."

 

[calbear2000]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

you bet he's seen many changes. he was the one that said "there's not enough troops in the army to force the southern people to break down segregation and admit the n*gger race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches!"

Well that would be one way to paraphrase Thurmond's actual comments. A wrong one, but one nonetheless...

Are you saying those weren't his actual comments?

I found many a website that credits Strom with this quote.

Or are you calling it an incorrect paraphrase because he actually used the word "negro" instead?

 

[jaeger66]

Originally posted by: Piano Man
Didn't like the man and I never agreed with his views, but I'm saddened by his death.

I'm not.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

I think it would be well to remember that people, like the times change with the age. A great many here who claim an enlightened view on things like slavery etc, would most likely feel quite differently if born a few hundred years ago into a family of means in the Carolinas. You are not inherently superior, it depends on the social context you were raised in. What matters is when the times change, you do too as is appropriate. To know which beliefs to change and which to keep is a hallmark of wisdom.

 

[calbear2000]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
I think it would be well to remember that people, like the times change with the age. A great many here who claim an enlightened view on things like slavery etc, would most likely feel quite differently if born a few hundred years ago into a family of means in the Carolinas. You are not inherently superior, it depends on the social context you were raised in. What matters is when the times change, you do too as is appropriate. To know which beliefs to change and which to keep is a hallmark of wisdom.

Another hallmark of wisdom, or I guess humility, is to recant the former views that are antiquated and now politically and socially unacceptable. Perhaps the Senator could have erased much of the controversy surrounding his name if he later spoke out against segregation.

*waits for apologists to show me that he actually did recant*

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: calbear2000

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
I think it would be well to remember that people, like the times change with the age. A great many here who claim an enlightened view on things like slavery etc, would most likely feel quite differently if born a few hundred years ago into a family of means in the Carolinas. You are not inherently superior, it depends on the social context you were raised in. What matters is when the times change, you do too as is appropriate. To know which beliefs to change and which to keep is a hallmark of wisdom.

Another hallmark of wisdom, or I guess humility, is to recant the former views that are antiquated and now politically and socially unacceptable. Perhaps the Senator could have erased much of the controversy surrounding his name if he later spoke out against segregation.

*waits for apologists to show me that he actually did recant*

Indeed, that should have been done. I don't know much about the man in truth. If he did it was to his credit, if not then it isn't.

 

[Alistar7]

I can think of something else he said that was at least as controversial, if not more, but he's dead so I will let it go.....


From the age of horse and buggy to a world of space tarvel, computers, and genetic engineering, has man ever come so far in less time and how lucky are the ones who saw it all happen.....

 

[Nitemare]

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

Originally posted by: calbear2000

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
I think it would be well to remember that people, like the times change with the age. A great many here who claim an enlightened view on things like slavery etc, would most likely feel quite differently if born a few hundred years ago into a family of means in the Carolinas. You are not inherently superior, it depends on the social context you were raised in. What matters is when the times change, you do too as is appropriate. To know which beliefs to change and which to keep is a hallmark of wisdom.

Another hallmark of wisdom, or I guess humility, is to recant the former views that are antiquated and now politically and socially unacceptable. Perhaps the Senator could have erased much of the controversy surrounding his name if he later spoke out against segregation.

*waits for apologists to show me that he actually did recant*

Indeed, that should have been done. I don't know much about the man in truth. If he did it was to his credit, if not then it isn't.

I would rather have an unspoken apology and performing actions to redress your past wrongs than a verbal empty apology and no actions performed to correct your past mistake.....but that is just me



Rest In Peace Strom. I know that you said what you did in the past to remain in favor with the locals(Every politician would do this including the legendary humanitarian JFK who let the civil rights bill sit on his desk and had no intention on signing it...We can thank his bro and LBJ for getting it signed) You have shown by your past actions that you are a true American and a South Carolinian and I for one am saddened by your passing.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Nitemare

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider

Originally posted by: calbear2000

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
I think it would be well to remember that people, like the times change with the age. A great many here who claim an enlightened view on things like slavery etc, would most likely feel quite differently if born a few hundred years ago into a family of means in the Carolinas. You are not inherently superior, it depends on the social context you were raised in. What matters is when the times change, you do too as is appropriate. To know which beliefs to change and which to keep is a hallmark of wisdom.

Another hallmark of wisdom, or I guess humility, is to recant the former views that are antiquated and now politically and socially unacceptable. Perhaps the Senator could have erased much of the controversy surrounding his name if he later spoke out against segregation.

*waits for apologists to show me that he actually did recant*

Indeed, that should have been done. I don't know much about the man in truth. If he did it was to his credit, if not then it isn't.

I would rather have an unspoken apology and performing actions to redress your past wrongs than a verbal empty apology and no actions performed to correct your past mistake.....but that is just me

As would I, but they are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: calbear2000

Originally posted by: Hayabusarider
I think it would be well to remember that people, like the times change with the age. A great many here who claim an enlightened view on things like slavery etc, would most likely feel quite differently if born a few hundred years ago into a family of means in the Carolinas. You are not inherently superior, it depends on the social context you were raised in. What matters is when the times change, you do too as is appropriate. To know which beliefs to change and which to keep is a hallmark of wisdom.

Another hallmark of wisdom, or I guess humility, is to recant the former views that are antiquated and now politically and socially unacceptable. Perhaps the Senator could have erased much of the controversy surrounding his name if he later spoke out against segregation.

*waits for apologists to show me that he actually did recant*

I agree. He should have recanted, but it would have served no purpose. If he really changed he should have said so. Sad that he died though.

 

[shootsfor3]

He lived a long life, it was time. I couldn't stand looking at him.

 

[Pudgygiant]

Wow, I really live under a rock... I live in SC and I didn't hear about this! Of course, playing CS 10 hours a day doesn't help news uptake...

 

[0roo0roo]

Originally posted by: calbear2000

Originally posted by: tcsenter

you bet he's seen many changes. he was the one that said "there's not enough troops in the army to force the southern people to break down segregation and admit the n*gger race into our theaters, into our swimming pools, into our homes, and into our churches!"

Well that would be one way to paraphrase Thurmond's actual comments. A wrong one, but one nonetheless...

Are you saying those weren't his actual comments?

I found many a website that credits Strom with this quote.

Or are you calling it an incorrect paraphrase because he actually used the word "negro" instead?

no i believe he used n*gger. pussy footed journalists in many newspapers toned it down to be p.c. whenever using the quote.

 

[tcsenter]

no i believe he used n*gger. pussy footed journalists in many newspapers toned it down to be p.c. whenever using the quote.

The only 'evidence' that Thurmond used the word n-gger instead of negro stems from an unsubstantiated claim in a fringe black magazine.

This claim was purely logic oriented, arguing that a 'racist' such as Thurmond surely would have used the more derogatory slur, under the distorted presumption that 'states rights' was exclusively about racism, and that the white racist media was surely censoring Thurmond's use of the word. They're 'evidence'? Well, because that's what the white racist media does. IOW, they had no proof, just an unsubstantiated accusation.

Thurmond's rhetoric on segregation was always offered as but one component of a greater objection to unconstitutional expansions of federal power driven by what he [and many other Southerners] believed to be 'Communist' infiltrators and ideologies. It encompassed a number of other issues as well.

Thurmond's actual words were, "...all the laws of Washington and all the bayonets of the Army cannot force the Negro into our homes, into our schools, our churches and our places of recreation and amusement."

 

[Perknose]

Thurmond's actual words were, "...all the laws of Washington and all the bayonets of the Army cannot force the Negro into our homes, into our schools, our churches and our places of recreation and amusement."

You have misspoken, tscenter.

You can clearly hear Strom use the term "THE N*GGER RACE" in this tape of his speech of July 17th, 1948, here: http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20021205.atc.thurmond.ram. You have to (ugh!) download RealAudio to hear it.

I actually thought the tape might be garbled and inconclusive. It is not. Strom clearly says "the n*gger race", not anything else.

I had thought he might have used the Southern white honorific "nigra", or that it might be hard to distinguish whether or not he said "nigra" or "n*gger", but, sure enough, he said "n*gger" just as plain as day.

On the other hand, I wish to salute his patriotism, courage and honor for his combat service to our country in WWII.

 

[tcsenter]

You can clearly hear Strom use the term "THE N*GGER RACE" in this tape of his speech of July 17th, 1948, here: http://www.npr.org/ramfiles/atc/20021205.atc.thurmond.ram. You have to (ugh!) download RealAudio to hear it.

WHY WHY REAL PLAYER?

At any rate, it doesn't change my point. If Thurmond was really this 'racist' he surely wouldn't have cracked down on the KKK or lynchings or supported the ban on poll taxes in his own state or tried to improve conditions for black schools, all before the black vote got his attention. Every thing Thurmond did and said was consistent with his statement that it was opposition to overreaching federal power and 'Communist' ideologies that caused him to oppose federal integration mandates, not because he was racist or opposed integration, but because it was the federal government doing the mandating.

This is why he supported the ban on poll taxes in his own state but did not support it on the federal level, because he didn't believe it was the federal government's business to be telling states how to run theirs, whether or not he fundamentally agreed with the cause, he strongly disagreed with the messenger.

 

[calbear2000]

Originally posted by: tcsenter

no i believe he used n*gger. pussy footed journalists in many newspapers toned it down to be p.c. whenever using the quote.

The only 'evidence' that Thurmond used the word n-gger instead of negro stems from an unsubstantiated claim in a fringe black magazine.

This claim was purely logic oriented, arguing that a 'racist' such as Thurmond surely would have used the more derogatory slur, under the distorted presumption that 'states rights' was exclusively about racism, and that the white racist media was surely censoring Thurmond's use of the word. They're 'evidence'? Well, because that's what the white racist media does. IOW, they had no proof, just an unsubstantiated accusation.

Thurmond's rhetoric on segregation was always offered as but one component of a greater objection to unconstitutional expansions of federal power driven by what he [and many other Southerners] believed to be 'Communist' infiltrators and ideologies. It encompassed a number of other issues as well.

Thurmond's actual words were, "...all the laws of Washington and all the bayonets of the Army cannot force the Negro into our homes, into our schools, our churches and our places of recreation and amusement."

I'm sincerely curious as to which apologist's publication you're getting your info from? Obviously your quote is incorrect and is the one that is blatantly paraphrased, he did use the word "n*gger", and it was not an "ubsubstantatiated claim in a fringe black magazine"

Can you provide a link? PM me if you don't want it publicized and I will respect that...

 

[tcsenter]

I'm sincerely curious as to which apologist's publication you're getting your info from? Obviously your quote is incorrect and is the one that is blatantly paraphrased, he did use the word "n*gger", and it was not an "ubsubstantatiated claim in a fringe black magazine"

The quote was taken from the ultra-right wing publication The New York Times c/o my link to Thurmond's NYT obituary near the top of the thread.

Several months ago, there was a thread about this very subject; the media's alleged 'censoring' of Thurmond's speech. The thread creator linked to a fringe black magazine as a source for the claim. To my knowledge, in that article, there was no evidence provided to support this claim, nor any mention of a recording of Thurmond's speech that could be used as verification, which as of yet I have not verified and will reserve judgement until I do.