Strengths of the X1900XT?

[Maximilian]

Yea ive seen many lists that say it has better AA than the GTX's etc etc.

Whats that mean though? Higher quality? Takes less of a performance hit from AA? What exactly are the strengths of an X1900 card??

 

[Ackmed]

Quality to me is about the same, for 2x and 4x. The XT takes less of a hit overall than the GTX with AA applied. The XT can also do 6xAA, while the GTX cannot. The GTX can do 8xAA, but its a different type of AA. It looks very nice, but is far too demanding, and puts frames under playable. At least for me. Im sure you can use it in older games, with a lower res fairly well, but thats not something I do.

 

[Munky]

It takes less of a performance hit when enabling AA. Using regular 4xAA the quality seems the same as Nv cards. Also, both Ati and Nv cards have methods of applying AA to transparency textures, like the ones commonly used for chain link fences, wires, etc. Due to different gamma used by these methods, Ati's transparency AA usually looks better on CRT monitors, while Nvidia transparency AA looks better on LCD monitors. Nv, however, does have supersampling AA, which takes an even bigger performance hit, but it looks nicer on older games because it also applies AA to textures, not just geometry edges.

 

[akshayt]

bottomline, what is better for image quality?

 

[hardwareking]

well ati adaptive AA has been proven to be better than nvidias transperency supersampling or multisampling AA>
And it takes less of a performance hit.
And ATI has HQ AF which no nvidia card has.There the image quality is visibly different where ATi gets the win,hands down.
Bottom line ATI is x1xxx series is best for image quality.

 

[Keysplayr]

Originally posted by: hardwareking
well ati adaptive AA has been proven to be better than nvidias transperency supersampling or multisampling AA>
And it takes less of a performance hit.
And ATI has HQ AF which no nvidia card has.There the image quality is visibly different where ATi gets the win,hands down.
Bottom line ATI is x1xxx series is best for image quality.

ATI adaptive AA may take less of a performance hit, but proven to be better than Nvidia's TSAA? I don't think so. When you use the word "proven" in here, you should always try to post a link to where the proof is so we can look at it and decide if it is viable or not to the rest of us. Otherwise, you get people like me calling it out. So, please post some link we can check out that proves AAA is better than TSAA.

Thanks in advance.

 

[redbox]

Originally posted by: hardwareking
well ati adaptive AA has been proven to be better than nvidias transperency supersampling or multisampling AA>
And it takes less of a performance hit.
And ATI has HQ AF which no nvidia card has.There the image quality is visibly different where ATi gets the win,hands down.
Bottom line ATI is x1xxx series is best for image quality.

I don't know how you can prove something when talking about image quality? Also I run my nvidia card in HQ everything, I don't know if this includes AF but it looks really pretty.

 

[Keysplayr]

Unless all of us get together in some sort of mini convention and have two identical systems, save the vid cards and see for ourselves, this argument will usually end up moot, and without resolution. And even then, there will be disputes.

 

[redbox]

I wonder how the hardware reviews go here at anandtech. Do they argue about which set up had the best looking results?

 

[hardwareking]

@keysplayr2003-sorry about that my bad.I made the mistake of confusing performance hit with better quality.
Anyways the HQ AF feature as per hardocp(i'll get a link soon)has a great impact on games which have a lot of outdoor segments such as battlefield 2 and call of duty 2.

 

[pelikan]

Higher minimum frame rate in oblivion than 7900gtx.

 

[akshayt]

according to me radeon 1900xt is a better buy especially for the future.

 

[DJCrunkMix]

^^ ...I just bought one!

 

[josh6079]

I wouldn't say that the supersampling transperancy on Nvidia cards is worse than "Quality" Adaptive AA. In fact, I think its better on Nvidia cards, I don't remember a huge performance hit when doing it. I will agree though that the 8x AA feature on Nvidia cards is pretty much worthless unless you've got SLI. 8x for one card could not be handled well for me. ATI's 6x is much more flexible in that it doesn't kill my frame rates. Yet when I enable 6xAAA, I'm really hurting in games like BF2 and the like. AAA has, I think, a bigger performance hit on ATI cards than Nvidia's transparency AA does on their cards. At least, that's just the conclusion I've gotten from two 7800GT's and an X1900XTX.

 

[LittleNemoNES]

From my personal experience, Nvidia has better AA but ATI has better AF...

HL2 crossfire performance: You can use 14xAA with less performance hit than 8x SLIAA (GTX)

 

[Polish3d]

I have both a 7800gtx (which I will be selling) and an X1900XTX which I am now borrowing but will be buying one of my own.

Image quality:


The picture is just plain sharper. For instance, when starting up, the text in my bios for example on the GTX is blurry and looks smooth, on the XTX you can literally see each pixel edge. The overall sharpness in HL2 EP 1 was starkly different.

Addtionally, performance, particularly after OCing the X1900XTX and comparing it to my OCed GTX was roughly doubled, which falls into line with benchmarks on AT. (with AA enabled but who doesnt)

HQ AF is noticeable and superior. I can now shoot further in BF2 due to clearer picture.

This is the first video card that has really impressed me with its power and image quality.

 

[otispunkmeyer]

Originally posted by: redbox

Originally posted by: hardwareking
well ati adaptive AA has been proven to be better than nvidias transperency supersampling or multisampling AA>
And it takes less of a performance hit.
And ATI has HQ AF which no nvidia card has.There the image quality is visibly different where ATi gets the win,hands down.
Bottom line ATI is x1xxx series is best for image quality.

I don't know how you can prove something when talking about image quality? Also I run my nvidia card in HQ everything, I don't know if this includes AF but it looks really pretty.

yeah IQ is subjective, depends on whos using it

 

[nichrf36]

Originally posted by: Frackal
I have both a 7800gtx (which I will be selling) and an X1900XTX which I am now borrowing but will be buying one of my own.

Image quality:


The picture is just plain sharper. For instance, when starting up, the text in my bios for example on the GTX is blurry and looks smooth, on the XTX you can literally see each pixel edge. The overall sharpness in HL2 EP 1 was starkly different.

Addtionally, performance, particularly after OCing the X1900XTX and comparing it to my OCed GTX was roughly doubled, which falls into line with benchmarks on AT. (with AA enabled but who doesnt)

HQ AF is noticeable and superior. I can now shoot further in BF2 due to clearer picture.

This is the first video card that has really impressed me with its power and image quality.

I will be picking up a 1900xt this week but keep in mind that ATI card'ds are notoriously loud compared to nvidia offerings. But either way each card has its positives and negatives I would say.

 

[BFG10K]

The X1900XT has the performance advantage in modern shader based games and with high quality AF.

It does not have the advantage with AA image quality however.

For one thing multiple reviewers have commented that transparency AA smooths edges better at long distances than adaptive AA does.

Secondly in single card configurations ATi doesn't have anything that can touch the quality of nVidia's 8xAA and 16xAA modes, especially in Direct3D where transparency AA stacks with those modes and provides unreal image quality.

Benchmarks and screenshots here.

As you can see, the modes are quite playable at high resolutions in older games. I can run every Quake 3 engined game I own at 1920x1440 with 8xAA and they look gorgeous. Even in semi-new games like Vampire Bloodlines (2004) 8xAA combined with super-sampling transparancy is very usable and looks stunning.

Also ATi users can only dream of the cooling solution the 7900 GTX offers.

 

[1Dark1Sharigan1]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
Also ATi users can only dream of the cooling solution the 7900 GTX offers.

What about ICEQ3?

 

[thilanliyan]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
For one thing multiple reviewers have commented that transparency AA smooths edges better at long distances than adaptive AA does.

Secondly in single card configurations ATi doesn't have anything that can touch the quality of nVidia's 8xAA and 16xAA modes, especially in Direct3D where transparency AA stacks with those modes and provides unreal image quality.

Benchmarks and screenshots here.

I don't know what it is ...maybe just the jpg compression on the screenshots you posted at ARS but the first thing I thought when I looked at the screenies was that they looked a bit blurry. Is there another site you recommend that did a comparison on both 7800/7900 cards vs. x1800/x1900 cards for image quality??

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
The X1900XT has the performance advantage in modern shader based games and with high quality AF.

It does not have the advantage with AA image quality however.

For one thing multiple reviewers have commented that transparency AA smooths edges better at long distances than adaptive AA does.

Secondly in single card configurations ATi doesn't have anything that can touch the quality of nVidia's 8xAA and 16xAA modes, especially in Direct3D where transparency AA stacks with those modes and provides unreal image quality.

Benchmarks and screenshots here.

As you can see, the modes are quite playable at high resolutions in older games. I can run every Quake 3 engined game I own at 1920x1440 with 8xAA and they look gorgeous. Even in semi-new games like Vampire Bloodlines (2004) 8xAA combined with super-sampling transparancy is very usable and looks stunning.

Also ATi users can only dream of the cooling solution the 7900 GTX offers.

How exactly does full screen SSAA look compared to MSAA + transparency SSAA? Does it help out the texture filtering quality, and if so, does it also reduce the texture shimmering? It's been a long while since I had a card that did any kind of full screen SSAA.

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: BFG10K
The X1900XT has the performance advantage in modern shader based games and with high quality AF.

It does not have the advantage with AA image quality however.

For one thing multiple reviewers have commented that transparency AA smooths edges better at long distances than adaptive AA does.

Secondly in single card configurations ATi doesn't have anything that can touch the quality of nVidia's 8xAA and 16xAA modes, especially in Direct3D where transparency AA stacks with those modes and provides unreal image quality.

Benchmarks and screenshots here.

As you can see, the modes are quite playable at high resolutions in older games. I can run every Quake 3 engined game I own at 1920x1440 with 8xAA and they look gorgeous. Even in semi-new games like Vampire Bloodlines (2004) 8xAA combined with super-sampling transparancy is very usable and looks stunning.

Also ATi users can only dream of the cooling solution the 7900 GTX offers.

I agree on AA, but doesn't nvidia HSF dump heat INSIDE the case? That's a huge no-no for me, totally unacceptable. Even as hot as the XTX gets it doesnt seem to affect my ambient at all.

 

[BFG10K]

What about ICEQ3?

Sure, if you want to tinker with a $500 card and void your warranty. Also if it doesn't work and overheats the card then what? Are you going to RMA because the card is "faulty"?

Is there another site you recommend that did a comparison on both 7800/7900 cards vs. x1800/x1900 cards for image quality??

Not at the AA levels I run; most websites just stick to 4xAA. Also what resolution are you viewing the images at? You aren't mashing them into a lower resolution are you?

Screenshots don't really do it justice anyway because you have to see it in motion to appreciate how good it is.

How exactly does full screen SSAA look compared to MSAA + transparency SSAA? Does it help out the texture filtering quality, and if so, does it also reduce the texture shimmering?

Yes, nVidia's SSAA modes AA everything which means all textures get smoother as well. And again you can enable both transparency AA and the xS modes in Direct3D to get even better image quality.

I agree on AA, but doesn't nvidia HSF dump heat INSIDE the case?

Better that than going deaf from the cooler. And actually nVidia's HSF exhausts hot air out of the case as well, just not as much as ATi's.

That's a huge no-no for me, totally unacceptable. Even as hot as the XTX gets it doesnt seem to affect my ambient at all.

How exactly does ambient temperature affect you? I'm looking for an answer in the context of a comparison to a fan that sounds like a jet engine.

 

[Polish3d]

The fan is only loud when gaming and isnt really louder than the game.


Granted, I dont buy a 500 dollar card to be annoyed by a loud ass fan, but I also dont buy a 500 dollar card to have to lower my processor and memory OC because it cant manage to vent air outside the case