Strange squeal only when steering wheel is turned right slightly

[hongz]

My car has a problem similar to one described by an old post, but not identical. Since the original poster did not report the final diagnosis, I am asking for tips here now.

A squeal happens more and more frequently when the steering wheel is turned right slightly (i.e. 5 - 10 degrees of the steering wheel). The squeal appears to come from the front left wheel. The squeal stops as soon as the steering wheel is turned more or less. In other words, the squeal happens only when the steering wheel is turned right to a specific degree. The specific degree can change slightly from time to time.

I asked a tech to look at the wheel to see if there is anything stuck there when he changed the oil for the car. He did not find anything abnormal.

The car is a 2008 Chrysler Sebring.

Any tips to help diagnose this problem will be greatly appreciated.

 

[MiataNC]

Does it sound like a belt squeal?

The power steering system may be putting different loads on the pump/belt depending on which direction you are turning. That could be enough to cause a belt squeal on an aging/glazed belt.

 

[JCH13]

Sounds like a power steering belt issues of some flavor.

 

[hongz]

Thanks a lot for the tips.
The thought of the belt being the culprit crossed my mind. This is how I tested it:
1. I parked the car, and turned the steering wheel to different degrees, and also ran the engine at different RPMs. The squeal did not happen.
2. I drove the car at low speed (<20 MPH), and turned the steering wheel to different degrees, the squeal did not happen.
3. When the squeal happened, I shifted the gear to the neutral to reduce the engine RPM significantly, but it did not affect the squeal.

It seems the squeal requires the car moving above certain speed.

It is snowing here (near Boston) now and the road condition is not good. When I have a chance, I will record the squeal and report back here. I may have to wait till tomorrow to do this.

 

[JCH13]

Does your car have any sort of adaptive power steering system?

 

[hongz]

I am sorry for my ignorance. This is my first time to hear "adaptive power steering system". How can I find out whether it has it?
I did a search of "Chrysler sebring adaptive power steering system", and could not find anything indicating the car does.

 

[hongz]

Here is the video with the squeal.
I noticed the squeal never occur until the car reaches certain speed (usually > 30 MPH). Once it happens, lowering the speed will not make it disappear. The first part of the video was recorded when the speed was lowered to < 20 MPH. The second part was done when the car was moving faster than 30 MPH.

Somehow the video link does not work on my computer. Here is the video's address: http://youtu.be/KTKPW3FBbZo

 

[RLGL]

Brake pads?

 

[tortillasoup]

Hate to make things more complicated for you but some higher end vehicles have speed sensitive steering. IMO I think you should adjust the belt tension slightly to see if the squeal goes away. What could happen is the load is slightly high enough and sudden enough to cause the squeal. So a sudden high load + loose belt = squeal. Obviously driving at a higher speed should be a lower load but since it's speed sensitive, it could be a factor.

Easiest thing to do is just adjust the belt and see if it continues. Other thing to look for is low power steering fluid.

 

[hongz]

Thank you all for the tips.
Actually, I took off the front left wheel yesterday, but could not see anything abnormal around the brake pad. I can certainly take the pad off and examine it more carefully.
I assume adjusting the power steering belt is fairly easy though I have never done it. Fortunately, it is going to warm up a bit in the next too days, so I will do it by Saturday for sure, and report back here.

 

[LTC8K6]

Could be a wheel bearing, a brake wear sensor, a dust shield...

Video really sounds like something slightly touching something else. Like the pad wear sensor or the dust shield.

The PS belt is not adjustable afaik, it's a serpentine belt, and if it were going to squeal, I would expect it to squeal when the effort is highest, when the car is not moving.

 

[styrafoam]

Video does sound like a rubbing/squeaking to my ears also.

Watching this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ELk_MnCLhMg#t=155

there is a dust shield behind the rotor, it could have possible taken a hit and come loose or gotten bent at some point.

 

[hongz]

Thank you all for the tips. I took off the wheel two days ago, and noticed a thin metal disk behind the rotor. I assume that is what you meant by dust shield. I did not notice anything abnormal, but I will take a closer look at it next time.

How would I confirm it is from the bearing?

BTW, the brake light is on occasionally (much much less frequently than the squeal). It is not correlated with the squeal at least in terms of timing. In other words, when the brake light is on, there is no squeal. When the squeal happens, the brake light is not on.

I have ordered rotors and pads. I thought that I might as well replace the rotor and pads next time when I take of the wheel. The rotor is a bit rusty (I will take a picture and upload it here next week).

 

[DaTT]

How would I confirm it is from the bearing?

BTW, the brake light is on occasionally (much much less frequently than the squeal). It is not correlated with the squeal at least in terms of timing. In other words, when the brake light is on, there is no squeal. When the squeal happens, the brake light is not on.

To check for a bearing, jack up the wheel in question and grab the top and bottom of the wheel. Try to wiggle the wheel, if it moves at all, there is a an issue either with a bearing or another suspension component.

If your brake light is on occasionally, check the fluid level.

 

[Demoralized]

Wheel bearing would be my guess. Had the same on my Sebring, replace both sides and back to normal.

 

[hongz]

Thank you all for the tips about bearing. I hope that is the case because the bearing is still under warranty if I understand it correctly.

Since I have already ordered rotors and pads, I will install them first to exclude them. I will report back once it is resolved.

 

[hongz]

Look at the pads. No further explanation is needed.
I am sorry for wasting the time of all you kind experts. First and foremost, I blame myself for not noticing something so obvious. I apparently confused the metal plate with the friction pad. However, I cannot praise the dealer and the local shop that serviced the car recently after the squeal started. They never mentioned brake pads. The dealer's service shop only mentioned rusty rotor when they did the alignment not long ago.

I still do not understand why the brake never squeaked when it was braking. This is the primary reason that I did not suspect the pads.

 

[phucheneh]

Application of the brakes serves to lock all the parts together more solidly, and often quells the vibrations that cause squealing. It's not until you get to a 'grind' (pad material is gone- looks like you were just getting there) that brake application causes a ruckus. But it goes from whine/squeal to a much more, eh, 'visceral' kind of grind. You FEEL that.

Based on your description, I was going to say hub bearing. Sounded like the noise was only happening at speed with some load on the suspension- usually what happens is that play in the bearing allows the rotor to contact the caliper bracket and make noise.

 

[someone16]

Look at the pads. No further explanation is needed.
I am sorry for wasting the time of all you kind experts. First and foremost, I blame myself for not noticing something so obvious. I apparently confused the metal plate with the friction pad. However, I cannot praise the dealer and the local shop that serviced the car recently after the squeal started. They never mentioned brake pads. The dealer's service shop only mentioned rusty rotor when they did the alignment not long ago.

I still do not understand why the brake never squeaked when it was braking. This is the primary reason that I did not suspect the pads.

Brakes would squeal if it had a wear indicator but it doesn't look like your pads have them.

But yea, I'd find a new shop if they don't even bother checking the brakes for you during service.

 

[hongz]

phucheneh, thank you for the elucidation. It makes sense. I am sorry if my previous post is not clear. The squeal is completely gone. The squeal reached a point last week when it occurred reliably as soon as the car reached 30 MPH or so (steering wheel still needed to be turned right slightly to make this happen). I drove a couple of miles at various speeds and turned my steering wheel to different degrees after replacing the pads and rotor yesterday, and I did not hear a thing. Hallelujah!

someone16, yes, I will avoid the dealer's service shop as much as I can though I still need them for warranty related work. They drove the car, did the alignment, changed rear tires, and told me about rusty front rotors, but never said a word about the pads. This car's pads probably are meant to not have wearing indicators. The new pads do not have them either.
Here are the installed so called "Performance Cross Drilled Brake Rotor and Ceramic Pads". Unfortunately I have to redo it today because I forgot the anti-rattle clip. I did not feel anything abnormal, but I assume that I'd better to put it on.

Old rotor:

 

[someone16]

Just FYI, next time you get rotors I would get blanks (like the original ones that came off your car) instead of cross drilled.

Croos drilled rotors are directional too I believe so make sure you have them in correctly.

 

[hongz]

Thank you, someone16. I will. I am a conservative driver, and I do not need performance type rotors. I am more concerned about reliability.

 

[JCH13]

Cross-drilled rotors are prone to cracking and can cause brake pads to wear more quickly than plain rotors. This is why most people avoid cross-drilled (or slotted) rotors for street cars.

 

[hongz]

Thank you for the tip, JCH13. I wish I had known this before ordering the rotors.

 

[frontBmp16]

frontBmp16... Please note that this thread is a bit over 4 years old so please start a new one...

AT Moderator
Bartman39

Cross-drilled rotors are prone to cracking and can cause brake pads to wear more quickly than plain rotors. This is why most people avoid cross-drilled (or slotted) rotors for street cars.

Is there any advantage for rainy weather with cross-drilled by draining the water back through the holes, or even dirt? or the aesthetics is the only advantage?