Strange Errors

[Axon]

Hello all,

Rig info:

AMD 64 3200+
MSI NEO-FISR
ATi branded 9800 Pro
1 gig Mushkin PC 3200
200 gig SATA WD Hard drive
400W Generic PSU (no idea on the brand)

I'm having a lot of stability issues. The computer crashes and reboots during 3dmark03's "CPU test #1" and during any attempt to overclock. PC also froze up this morning while running newsleecher - not the most stressful program in the world.

It has been suggested to me that my PSU could be responsible for this behavior. I was previously running an AMD XP 2500+ @ 3200 rock-solid for 5 months with it - with all of the same hardware. Is the AMD 64 that much more dependant on power? I know it needed that 12v plug....and that all my modular plugs are used up.

Any opinions? Could it be something else?

 

[vapidtransit]

How many optical drives and fans are you running? Its possible that your PSU is just a piece of junk and can't supply stable voltages when it's nearing its max. load. I just built a system that's nearly identical to the one you described (same mobo, A64 3000+) and I invested in a 480 W enermax so I wouldn't have to worry about power supply issues.

 

[Axon]

Two optical drives, one HDD, the video card, CPU, three 80 mm fans, two blue LEDs (Coolermaster Wavemaster).

 

[Axon]

Bump, any more opinions? Crashes are getting more frequent - just crashed while DLing DirectX 9.0B.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Axon
Bump, any more opinions? Crashes are getting more frequent - just crashed while DLing DirectX 9.0B.

O/C'd?

Any new HW?

Checked 4 viruses, trojans? . . installed and ran spybot and adaware?

 

[Axon]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Axon
Bump, any more opinions? Crashes are getting more frequent - just crashed while DLing DirectX 9.0B.

O/C'd?

Any new HW?

Checked 4 viruses, trojans? . . installed and ran spybot and adaware?

Not OCed. Machine crashes at any change to the FSB.

No new Hardware.

Scanned for viruses last night. Ran Spybot last night but will run again now.

Machine crashes "on command" at any attempt to DL DX 9.0B.

On another note, Motherboard Monitor shows the CPU temp at 41 Celcius max load. Ambient temp in my house is easily 80+ farienheight.

 

[apoppin]

Did it ever run right?

 

[Axon]

Not really, no. I suppose it could be the chip, unfortunately, no one I know has another AMD 64 for me to test with.

 

[Mark R]

Check the voltages your PSU is giving out - either in the BIOS, or with a monitoring program, or using a multi-meter.

Here is what you may see on the different power 'rails':

+12V (yellow wires): 11.4 - 12.6 V (optimal) 10.8 - 11.4 V (borderline) Below 10.8V (critical)
+5V (red wires): 4.85 - 5.15 V (optimal) 4.75 - 4.85 V (borderline) Below 4.75 (critical)
+3.3V (orange wires): 3.2 - 3.4 V (optimal) 3.1 - 3.2V (borderline) Below 3.1V (critical)

If any of your voltages are in the critical region, the PSU is likely to be inadequate. Replace it before any further troubleshooting. If any are in the borderline region, then the PSU may be inadequate - consider replacing it if you can find nothing else which is obviously faulty.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Axon
Not really, no. I suppose it could be the chip, unfortunately, no one I know has another AMD 64 for me to test with.

Aha. . . we have the problem.

:roll:

well, at least we can start . . . again.

Very - very (very) - doubtful it is the CPU.

Have you run memtest?

Is your 3DMark (whatever doesn't crash) scores "in line" with similar rigs?

Did you install your MB drivers? Is everything "perfect" in device manager?

WinXP? Everything install w/o strangeness? Have you tried a reformat and reinstall?

 

[Axon]

Originally posted by: Mark R
Check the voltages your PSU is giving out - either in the BIOS, or with a monitoring program, or using a multi-meter.

Here is what you may see on the different power 'rails':

+12V (yellow wires): 11.4 - 12.6 V (optimal) 10.8 - 11.4 V (borderline) Below 10.8V (critical)
+5V (red wires): 4.85 - 5.15 V (optimal) 4.75 - 4.85 V (borderline) Below 4.75 (critical)
+3.3V (orange wires): 3.2 - 3.4 V (optimal) 3.1 - 3.2V (borderline) Below 3.1V (critical)

If any of your voltages are in the critical region, the PSU is likely to be inadequate. Replace it before any further troubleshooting. If any are in the borderline region, then the PSU may be inadequate - consider replacing it if you can find nothing else which is obviously faulty.

Thanks for the info. Here's what I got from the BIOS:

+5V: 4.896-5.030V

+12V: 11.984V

-12V: -12.07V

-5.0V: -5.127V

Nothing mentioning 3.3V, but there was an option named battery running at 3.456V.

+5VSB: 4.921V

VCore: 1.472V

 

[apoppin]

Your voltages look fine . . .

Likely it is NOT a PS issue since it ran fine in another computer.

However, since your new build NEVER ran right, you likely made some error or the o/s failed to install correctly.

Memtest is a DOS program that will rule out RAM error.

edit: you can run "Hardware Doc" from your MB disk or d/l "motherboard monito"r to give you voltages while win is running.

 

[Axon]

Originally posted by: apoppin

Originally posted by: Axon
Not really, no. I suppose it could be the chip, unfortunately, no one I know has another AMD 64 for me to test with.

Aha. . . we have the problem.

:roll:

well, at least we can start . . . again.

Very - very (very) - doubtful it is the CPU.

Have you run memtest?

Is your 3DMark (whatever doesn't crash) scores "in line" with similar rigs?

Did you install your MB drivers? Is everything "perfect" in device manager?

WinXP? Everything install w/o strangeness? Have you tried a reformat and reinstall?

Haven't run memtest. Will look into it.

3Dmark runs fine until CPU test #1. Aquamark scores perfectly in line with my hardware.

Aquamark 3 Score

Agreed, doubtful it is the CPU. It's a used chip so I'm paranoid, but it boots fine and runs most stuff fine. But it seems any kind of stress makes the system crash.

MB drivers in, obviously. Eevrything looks good in device manager. Windows installer complained about my sata controller from MSI not having a digital signature - but that's it. All updates installed fine save DX 9.0B. WinXP went in fine. Right this minute I'm running on my IDE harddrive and not my SATA hard drive and it installed DX 9.0B just fine.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Axon
Is the AMD 64 that much more dependant on power? I know it needed that 12v plug....and that all my modular plugs are used up.

Just noticed this . . . your 12v plug in not connected?

Not sure about the a64, but it is necessary for P4 stability.

 

[Axon]

No, by that I meant I need to plug in the 12V plug whereas the AMD XP did not need it.

12V is plugged in. Wouldn't even boot without it.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Axon
No, by that I meant I need to plug in the 12V plug whereas the AMD XP did not need it.

12V is plugged in. Wouldn't even boot without it.

What I would do - after getting more advice here - is to definitely run MemTest to rule out RAM errors; install MBmonitor so i could actually watch my voltages and temps as i run stressful programs . . . and then i'd do a completely fresh install of XP (to rule out o/s error).

Good luck and let us know . . .

 

[Axon]

Okay, ran memtest - it flew by and I couldn't see a thing. Just kept rebooting, shooting by, rebooting - the program clearly ran but I couldn't do anything in it. Maybe I did something wrong.

 

[Mark R]

Well, it's less likely seeing those voltages that the PSU is the problem. However, it would be worth monitoring the voltages in Windows during load to see if they fluctuate out of the optimal ranges. I suspect they won't.

The easiest next test is probably a RAM test - Get hold of WMD and make either a CD or boot floppy using the installer program. The standard test suite is very good - just boot it and leave it for an hour or 2. Any errors are a bad sign and could point to faulty CPU, MoBo or DIMM. WMD should be able to narrow it down to a specific DIMM, if that is where the fault is.

If that's all OK, a reasonable CPU check is Prime95. Run the torture test.

 

[apoppin]

Originally posted by: Axon
Okay, ran memtest - it flew by and I couldn't see a thing. Just kept rebooting, shooting by, rebooting - the program clearly ran but I couldn't do anything in it. Maybe I did something wrong.

Something doesn't seem right . . . see Mark R's post . . . it takes (quite) awhile and i don't remember having to reboot.