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Strange electrical problems on my car

Bignate603

Bignate603

Lifer
This problem has me pretty confused because I have no idea what could possibly cause it. Any advice would help me out. The car in question is a Toyota Camry

I was driving down the road, going about 20 mph and the engine just turned off. There was no sputter or misfire, it just turned off. I rolled to the side of the road and tried the key, but the starter didn't work either. It wouldn't even crank, I'm not sure if the solenoid was even clicking. I still had all my lights on the dash, headlights worked and didn't seem too dim. It's not showing the CEL. I had this problem once before and it seemed to be the battery cable on one terminal was loose. I pulled it off, cleaned it off and jammed a piece of metal in there to make a better contact (it's been stretched out a bit so it doesn't squeeze the battery terminal well) and after about 15 minutes of jamming it on, wiggling it around and trying the key again it started. I made it about 5 minutes down the road and it died again. I went through the whole thing again for about 30 minutes, no dice. I finally got it started but decided to check something out. While it was running I pulled the cable off the battery, it ran fine. No problems at all for about 5 minutes where it just turned itself off again and didn't want to crank the starter. I waited maybe 15 minutes, didn't do anything to it, and then it would start back up again.

I'm pretty sure the problem is electrical, because it just stops like you turned off the engine. The only thing I can think of that could be causing it to act like this is a problem with the electric radiator fan (it wasn't spinning at all when I had my head under the hood while it was running). Maybe it's shorting out? One of them does look damaged from the battery that ruptured before I bought the car. It looks like burn marks on the motor housing. Otherwise, I don't know what would do this only when the car is hot.
 
Shorts would blow fuses, or burn up wiring if it is an unfused connection. You probably have a bad ground, or a loose main connection somewhere. My sister had something similar right at her fuse box, and it was a ground connection running right to the battery.
 
What baffles me is that it is such a sudden thing, and will do it with just the car sitting there. If it was a bad ground I would think it wouldn't change with the car just idling in the driveway and suddenly have the engine die.
 
Doubtful, the car will run well without the battery connected and when it dies it's very sudden, like you just turned it off using the key.
 
So once the car dies, it will not crank? But if you let it sit for a few minutes it will crank? That's a weird one. One thing to listen for would be the starter solenoid clicking to see if it's trying to turn but it can't. That will give you a clue whether or not the starter is getting power to crank the engine. If you can't hear the solenoid clicking then the next thing would be to start checking the wiring and terminals for the battery ground, battery to the starter and alternator with a volt meter. I think there's also a ground wire that goes from the engine block to the chassis too that you should check. You'll need some one to turn the key to start position, but you should see 12-13 volts at the starter when it is in the start position. Once the car is running, you can check the output on the alternator which should be around 14 volts if it's good. While you're looking at the connections, make sure all are clean and not corroded or loose. If you see any with a lot of crud on them take the connection off and go over it with a wire brush to clean it up(disconnect the battery before you start fiddling with the downstream connections though or you could pop some fuses).

If the connections are all good and still no clicks from the starter solenoid my guess would be the starter's got some problems. One test for that would be to take it out completely, and use jumper cables to the battery to put 12 volts to its terminals. It should engage and spin. If not, you need a new starter. I'm still not sure how a faulty starter would stall the engine though unless maybe it's binding up enough to stop the motor.

This is all on the assumption that the sucker won't crank once it dies on you. That has to be either a wiring issue to the starter, the starter itself or the starter relay. The stalling out part has me confused though.
 
It could be the ECM too...

This sounds like a problem that I had with my old 1998 Plymouth Reliant. On days about 90 degrees, after some driving the A/C relay would start to click on and off rapidly, and then the engine would die. Turns out the ECM was bad, so I pulled one from a junkyard and never had a problem after that.
 
Ok, here's my current theory on what is happening. I know that one battery connection is a bit flaky. My bet is it's wiggling loose enough to get a lousy connection. When the car was sitting after it stalled I went and poked around under the hood so it's likely me messing around wiggled it enough each time enough to get a good enough connection to start. It ran on just the alternator because it would do ok at the higher starting idle (my car idles about 500 rpm higher than normal until it reaches operating temp and then it hops down) but when the engine popped down to the lower idle when it's warm the alternator may have had a momentary blip in the voltage long enough to kill the engine. I don't think the voltage regulators are instantaneous, and a split second loss of power would be enough to kill the engine. By then the battery terminal has wiggled loose and the car won't start. Also, if the connection is bad enough anything flipping on (electric radiator fan, etc) could cause the voltage to sag for a second, killing the engine.

I'm pretty sure that each time it turned off while driving I had just taken my foot off the gas, rpm dropped, voltage on the alternator voltage blipped down for a second, engine turned off.

I replaced the battery connections and it's starting and driving right now. I'll see if that's all it needs.
 
Sounds like an electrical device is overheating. You said that when the car die, you have to wait 15~30 minutes before it will crank again. This could be the time that the device(s) in question cool down enough to work again.
 
Originally posted by: cprince
Sounds like an electrical device is overheating. You said that when the car die, you have to wait 15~30 minutes before it will crank again. This could be the time that the device(s) in question cool down enough to work again.
Click to expand...

I've thought about this, but what would overheat and cause both the starter and engine to die? Possibly the PCM?
 
Ok, we figured it out. It's a bad connection on the fuse box. You can have the car running, poke the connection, and have it die.
 
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