Would setting a passive interface make this happen or do they have more advanced ways of determining computers in your personal network? Right now I'm running a pos netgear router, why would it send information to the isp? As far as I know there is no routing protocol setup on the router, I specifically disabled rip - as there is no CLI to make the changes I want (dont think I can hack linux onto it either)... I've been in the process of setting up a pfSense box for my firewall/router and the netgear for wireless(stupid laptop) to help solve this issue - BUT would it work? And is there anyway to find out what my ISP is running at a lower level (I assume its still layer 3 but I dunno) and possibly block/confuse it?
stop ISP's from detecting computers behind your router?
- Thread starter Pantlegz
- Start date
not afraid of anything just dont want to pay extra for anything over 3 PC's connected at once. already pay way too much to the cable company.
There really isn't anything you can do. There are more advanced means of detecting people circumventing acceptable use policies and not paying for a service they should be.
- Oct 25, 1999
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The Router does not really matters.
It not so hard to figure Multi computers on a single connection by just taking a good look at the traffic pattern in your ISP log.
Millions of people have Multi Computer Home Networks and many ISPs even give out Modem/Routers.
I do not understand your predicament if you have some small private ISP that insist on single computer, then get another ISP.
Otherwise ISPs do not look at regular customers logs unless the customer is doing something Really Wrong and they need to deal with it.
It not so hard to figure Multi computers on a single connection by just taking a good look at the traffic pattern in your ISP log.
Millions of people have Multi Computer Home Networks and many ISPs even give out Modem/Routers.
I do not understand your predicament if you have some small private ISP that insist on single computer, then get another ISP.
Otherwise ISPs do not look at regular customers logs unless the customer is doing something Really Wrong and they need to deal with it.
it's not a small ISP - cox communications - and their system, even their online interace will activly monitor and block any computer after the 3rd that is attached to the network. I know that after the packet enters the router(on my side) that the source IP becomes that of the router, and the MAC address isnt sent outside the swich and if they have a way to determine what the source ip was prior to my router 'switching' it out then another router could solve that. How would it be so easy to tell from the traffic pattern? websites, especially with frames and multiple browser windows open could throw ips all over the place. So worst case, pfSense behind the netgear then any bacis MAC/IP sniffing would only see the IP of the netgear behind the pfSense, right? I wouldnt mind paying more if I wasn't already paying the cable company over 150/mo without the extra computers on the account.
Sorry if I don't fully understand how my ISP would be able to activly monitor the number of computers connected to my network - even if they're idle with no web traffic. --I though it might be a routing protocol of some sort, and I know atleast with cisco that if you set a passive interface then the routing tables from behind the passive interface isnt' sent out specificaly designed so your isp doesn't know whats behind your router(from what I was taught)... I was hoping it would be as simple as that in this case but it appears that may not be the case
Sorry if I don't fully understand how my ISP would be able to activly monitor the number of computers connected to my network - even if they're idle with no web traffic. --I though it might be a routing protocol of some sort, and I know atleast with cisco that if you set a passive interface then the routing tables from behind the passive interface isnt' sent out specificaly designed so your isp doesn't know whats behind your router(from what I was taught)... I was hoping it would be as simple as that in this case but it appears that may not be the case
Does cox really do this?
If you hook up more then 3 computers they don't let the 4th one on?
This is retarded, I have like 9 computers in my house(servers) and i use a ridiculous amount of bandwidth each month, now granted i have a biz connection but even when i had res it was fine.
I didn't even know it was possible for them to do that, but i work for a isp and i learn more and more things can be done that i thought couldn't every day (with the right hardware that is)
I would consider a different ISP, limiting how many computers you can have on the internet is ridiculous.
If you hook up more then 3 computers they don't let the 4th one on?
This is retarded, I have like 9 computers in my house(servers) and i use a ridiculous amount of bandwidth each month, now granted i have a biz connection but even when i had res it was fine.
I didn't even know it was possible for them to do that, but i work for a isp and i learn more and more things can be done that i thought couldn't every day (with the right hardware that is)
I would consider a different ISP, limiting how many computers you can have on the internet is ridiculous.
this actualy started about month ago... had some firends over for a lan party and some couldnt' get online but we were still able to play together. I couldn't figure it out for a little while but when I did I was a little pissed to say the least. I would get soemthing else but my only other option is SBC DSL and its quite a bit more expensive. I could understand them doing this if you were using tons of bandwidth but I know I typically don't use near the 7mb download I have and their upload is a joke on residential connections(150k up I think)
I have noticed that it doesn't count wireless deices so I think they're pinging with a TTL of 1 from the modem.. since the wireless is technically seperate from the router there's nothing there. but anything pluged straight into the router get counted... so I think a second router would be enough to throw it off. Unless you have any other ideas.
This part might go in software, but is there anything that will monitor EVERYTHING coming from and going to your network, or preferably modem? packet sniffing might work unless it's layer 2 tracking(but then the MAC could easily be cloned and that's easy enough) but how would I sniff packets that are technically not in my network(other side of the router)?
I have noticed that it doesn't count wireless deices so I think they're pinging with a TTL of 1 from the modem.. since the wireless is technically seperate from the router there's nothing there. but anything pluged straight into the router get counted... so I think a second router would be enough to throw it off. Unless you have any other ideas.
This part might go in software, but is there anything that will monitor EVERYTHING coming from and going to your network, or preferably modem? packet sniffing might work unless it's layer 2 tracking(but then the MAC could easily be cloned and that's easy enough) but how would I sniff packets that are technically not in my network(other side of the router)?
- Oct 25, 1999
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thanks jack, thats what I thought. To be a little more technical than the FAQ hubs share bandwidth, so basically everything gets sent everywhere. While switches forward information based on MAC. so with Crustys' suggestion would either a switch or hub work or since you want all information(not filtered) would a hub be required? If a switch would work, would the switch(it's a switch typically, right?) in my 'router' work? Or since theyre fairly integrated would it require a seperate hub(or switch if they would work)?
ok, so let me get this straight.
if you have more then 3 WIRED computers the internet on the 4th computer just doesn't work, or does a cox page come up saying crap?
edit: lol just found this on cox's site http://www.cox.com/homenetworking/whatishn.asp
"A relatively new topology is called 802.11b, also known as Wireless"
That's not outdated, and the network card they show has like a bnc connector or something on it.
if you have more then 3 WIRED computers the internet on the 4th computer just doesn't work, or does a cox page come up saying crap?
edit: lol just found this on cox's site http://www.cox.com/homenetworking/whatishn.asp
"A relatively new topology is called 802.11b, also known as Wireless"
That's not outdated, and the network card they show has like a bnc connector or something on it.
I don't remember off hand, I don't remember a cox message showing up. but I know the router was working as we were all able to play together on the LAN. I would test it but I only have 3 computers to hook up at the moment, but have 2 others(F@H and web server) that I'm putting together should be done in the next month or so. I just didn't want to run into any other issues when I have them up. I think I could get a pfSense box with a few NICs... if that would throw it off. But you are correct it is only counting WIRED connections I have had 5 laptops(all wireless) connected since I noticed the 'issue' and they all worked fine with my 2 desktop still functioning fine. which is why I was thinking the modem was pinging, or something, with a TTL of 1 to see the connected machines - why they did it this way I have no idea they should know that all non-commerical routers have a wireless access point that is 2 hops away. Maybe since it's a new implementation it's still in 'beta' and they will fix the wireless stuff soon. I don't know.
edit: lol 802.11b is only what, 8 year old at very least? I'm guessing it was a ieee spec quite a bit longer than that. You cant expect them to update their site more than once a decade...
edit: lol 802.11b is only what, 8 year old at very least? I'm guessing it was a ieee spec quite a bit longer than that. You cant expect them to update their site more than once a decade...
Well i just spoke with cox and they said they don't do that.
I think it was more of a problem on your end to tell you the truth, i know some people with cox and they don't have this problem. The wired and wireless side of your router are the same thing, unless you have them separate, like a router then a AP connected to it.
it might have been your router.
I personally use Mikrotik as my router, Works great.
edit: your router most likely drops all inbound ICMP traffic on the wan port, unless you have disabled it, so no pings from the modem.
I think it was more of a problem on your end to tell you the truth, i know some people with cox and they don't have this problem. The wired and wireless side of your router are the same thing, unless you have them separate, like a router then a AP connected to it.
it might have been your router.
I personally use Mikrotik as my router, Works great.
edit: your router most likely drops all inbound ICMP traffic on the wan port, unless you have disabled it, so no pings from the modem.
hmm thats odd, I didn't call them at the time becase internet didn't really matter then. It's jsut odd that we were able to LAN fine but the internet was jacked we did some basic troubleshooting and nothing seemed to work. I was always taught that 802.11 and 802.3 were completely seperate even if they're in the same box, but I don't know first hand. I'll see if I can get some people over soon and see if it's still jacked up I'll give them a call and see whats up.
Edit: right now I have WAN icmp enabled just becase I was having issues getting my webserver stuff working correctly so I had some friends off my network see if they could ping and/or trace route it. Should I try to shut if off and see if it's different??
Edit: right now I have WAN icmp enabled just becase I was having issues getting my webserver stuff working correctly so I had some friends off my network see if they could ping and/or trace route it. Should I try to shut if off and see if it's different??
i have 3 roommates and we have a total of 5 laptops, 5 desktops, and 2 ps3's hooked up and have not gotten kicked off of cox for having too many machines. i think you have some other issue.
sounds to me like your router is in a bridged mode on the wan interface, and cox will only server you 3 public ip addresses...
what are the ip address your getting on the computers... if they are not in these ranges below you are getting valid public ip addresses.
10.0.0.0/8
10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255
172.16.0.0/12
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255
192.168.0.0/16
192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255
make sure NAT addressing is set up on your router. and its set up to serve DHCP address on the LAN side.
what are the ip address your getting on the computers... if they are not in these ranges below you are getting valid public ip addresses.
10.0.0.0/8
10.0.0.0 - 10.255.255.255
172.16.0.0/12
172.16.0.0 - 172.31.255.255
192.168.0.0/16
192.168.0.0 - 192.168.255.255
make sure NAT addressing is set up on your router. and its set up to serve DHCP address on the LAN side.
http://img71.imageshack.us/my....image=coxscreenzu6.jpg
Theres the screen of my cox account online, there are actually 3 PC's on but it's still not picking up the laptop. I don't know if it's based off area but this is infact an issue I'm having.
I'm aware that the webserver is against the TOS but its going to be for mostly private use(wouldn't generate more traffic than F@H), remote backup and photo's for the family just basic sh!t. That and to learn more about windows server 2003.
My ip address are setup correctly 192.168.x.x I verified this when the other pc's were here. I've got someone coming over tomorrow so I can verify and get a screen shot of any error message(or just a windows network map showing they're all on the same network but still without access beyond the 3rd machine). I guess I could have more than 3 computers hooked up and worknig but there would be an additional charge, like I said before I think 150+/mo is more than enough money to the cable company.
Theres the screen of my cox account online, there are actually 3 PC's on but it's still not picking up the laptop. I don't know if it's based off area but this is infact an issue I'm having.
I'm aware that the webserver is against the TOS but its going to be for mostly private use(wouldn't generate more traffic than F@H), remote backup and photo's for the family just basic sh!t. That and to learn more about windows server 2003.
My ip address are setup correctly 192.168.x.x I verified this when the other pc's were here. I've got someone coming over tomorrow so I can verify and get a screen shot of any error message(or just a windows network map showing they're all on the same network but still without access beyond the 3rd machine). I guess I could have more than 3 computers hooked up and worknig but there would be an additional charge, like I said before I think 150+/mo is more than enough money to the cable company.
RebateMonger
Elite Member
- Dec 24, 2005
- 11,586
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For years, Cox has offered its own "Multiple Computer Access" program, where they supply the home networking. And they charge by the PC. Nobody uses it.
Cox won't support your home network if you use your own equipment. But if you put your own router behind the Cox cable modem, Cox has no interest in how many PCs you own. EVERYBODY has more than three computers, and nobody pays extra.
Cox won't support your home network if you use your own equipment. But if you put your own router behind the Cox cable modem, Cox has no interest in how many PCs you own. EVERYBODY has more than three computers, and nobody pays extra.
It sounds more and more like there is a problem with your setup, not your ISP.
This is a fairly standard installation for everyone, and nobody else has problems. Effectively, here's how you should be set up:
1) Modem, plugged into coax, plugged into router
2) Router, WAN port plugged into modem and set to DHCP, LAN side set up with 192.168.0.1, set up to supply DHCP
STOP!
Plug a computer in and confirm connectivity to the internet from that computer.
Now, plug in the rest of your computers wired. Verify that all can get connectivity.
Now configure wireless.
The fact that COX identifies that you have two computers hooked up tells me that you're plugging something else in directly to the modem besides the router, and you shouldn't be.
This is a fairly standard installation for everyone, and nobody else has problems. Effectively, here's how you should be set up:
1) Modem, plugged into coax, plugged into router
2) Router, WAN port plugged into modem and set to DHCP, LAN side set up with 192.168.0.1, set up to supply DHCP
STOP!
Plug a computer in and confirm connectivity to the internet from that computer.
Now, plug in the rest of your computers wired. Verify that all can get connectivity.
Now configure wireless.
The fact that COX identifies that you have two computers hooked up tells me that you're plugging something else in directly to the modem besides the router, and you shouldn't be.
debro - I'll check that later today when I have another computer here. There is nothing but my router plugged into the modem and no other networking equipment(no ICS either) in my network. I have verified that the only things connected to my router are my pc's. total of 3 ip's and 3 MACs.
I really appreciate everyone's help with this, thanks a lot guys! But I'll be CCNA certified in about 3 months(I know not the biggest deal) so I have a decent amount of networkng background/proper setups and I don't think that was the issue but there's a possibility it was something else with their PCs. I'll update later today with my results.
I really appreciate everyone's help with this, thanks a lot guys! But I'll be CCNA certified in about 3 months(I know not the biggest deal) so I have a decent amount of networkng background/proper setups and I don't think that was the issue but there's a possibility it was something else with their PCs. I'll update later today with my results.
RebateMonger
Elite Member
- Dec 24, 2005
- 11,586
- 0
- 0
According to this Cox page, "Multiple Computer Access" refers to attaching a HUB to the Cox modem. As suggested earlier, this means that Cox is providing multiple public IP addresses (and, no doubt, charging for them).
Cox suggests three ways of supporting multiple devices:
1) Have Cox provide you with equipment
2) Set up your own broadband router behind your Cox modem
3) Order MULTIPLE COMPUTER ACCESS from Cox, attaching your devices to an Ethernet Hub.
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