Stop and Frisk. Do you Support it?

[micrometers]

There are accusations of racism in its application, and there are arguments that it makes for safer streets.

I lean towards safer streets.

It is rough if you're an innocent person who repeated gets caught up in these things, but it is possible to train cops to do these things courteously.

 

[CallMeJoe]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

 

[Pr0d1gy]

Nazi nanny state, the Fourth Reich is rising within the same country that destroyed the Third Reich. They have people everywhere on the internet banning videos on youtube, ridiculing people who try to spread the truth, keeping tabs on everything you do while you're online. Wake up, people. They use fear to strip your freedom and then they destroy everything we have stood for the past almost 250 years.

 

[micrometers]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

http://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/privacy/when-can-police-stop

Pretty good explanation.

The court agreed with the police that officers face uncertain and dangerous situations on the streets—circumstances that can potentially threaten both law enforcement officers and the public. For this reason, police officers need a set of flexible responses that allow them to react based on the information they possess. Thus, distinctions should be made between a stop and an arrest (or seizure of a person), and between a frisk and a search.

 

[MovingTarget]

No. You must have probable cause to stop someone, and potentially a warrant for any invasive search.

 

[Sonikku]

If anything, they should be more invasive. Who the hell knows what females have hidden up that snook? Could be a Shank for all we know.

I sure as hell don't know what's up there.

 

[Jaskalas]

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Those founding fathers obviously had something to hide, arrest those traitors!

 

[HomerJS]

There are accusations of racism in its application, and there are arguments that it makes for safer streets.

I lean towards safer streets.

It is rough if you're an innocent person who repeated gets caught up in these things, but it is possible to train cops to do these things courteously.

If NYC/FTC/SEC will do stop and frisks of all middle age white guys coming out of Wall Street financial firms. Examine brief cases, computer, check their email. We know this is the profile of people who have caused losses of untold billions to our economy.

Think that'll happen??

 

[MovingTarget]

If NYC/FTC/SEC will do stop and frisks of all middle age white guys coming out of Wall Street financial firms. Examine brief cases, computer, check their email. We know this is the profile of people who have caused losses of untold billions to our economy.

Think that'll happen??

Haha...not a chance. A common thug will rob you of what you happen to have that particular day. Wall street types will rob you of your future, and we thank them for it.

 

[Lemon law]

Do I support unconstitutional searches and seizures?---In a word NO

 

[micrometers]

If NYC/FTC/SEC will do stop and frisks of all middle age white guys coming out of Wall Street financial firms. Examine brief cases, computer, check their email. We know this is the profile of people who have caused losses of untold billions to our economy.

Think that'll happen??

No, but then those guys aren't going out and mugging random people, shooting guns in city streets.

 

[micrometers]

The fact is though that you need to contrast NYC's experience with Philadelphia.

NYC aggressively implemented S&F. Philadelphia was sued by the ACLU into dropping its program.

Philadelphia is having a record murder year. NYC is one of the safest cities in the country.

 

[IGBT]

we do it at the air ports..do it in the streets.

 

[HomerJS]

No, but then those guys aren't going out and mugging random people, shooting guns in city streets.

So ruining the retirement savings of middle class people isn't a mugging?

 

[micrometers]

So ruining the retirement savings of middle class people isn't a mugging?

You mean a voluntarily invested 401k? As opposed to an involuntary...threat of physical harm?

 

[HomerJS]

You mean a voluntarily invested 401k? As opposed to an involuntary...threat of physical harm?

Voluntarily invested in a 401K assuming funds in these account would be handled in a lawful manner.

Kind of a similar risk when you walk the streets. You assume people will obey the law.

Why assume a threat of physical violence is the only way to ruin another persons life??

 

[micrometers]

Voluntarily invested in a 401K assuming funds in these account would be handled in a lawful manner.

Kind of a similar risk when you walk the streets. You assume people will obey the law.

Why assume a threat of physical violence is the only way to ruin another persons life??

This isn't about defending the guys on Wall St. You can always invest your money elsewhere, and violent crime is far worse than white collar crime since it can leave you disabled, disfigured, or physically dead.

 

[HomerJS]

This isn't about defending the guys on Wall St. You can always invest your money elsewhere, and violent crime is far worse than white collar crime since it can leave you disabled, disfigured, or physically dead.

Sure it can. Also a mugging victum could be left with a head contusion and out $500.

If you worked all your life, save 1 mill. You are going to retire in a few years. Some greedy fuck come in commits fraud, your account is wiped out. Life ruined.

Also remember that same Wall Street guy could wipe out the funds of hundreds of people at the same time and ruin their lives.

Mugging only effects 1 person.

 

[micrometers]

Sure it can. Also a mugging victum could be left with a head contusion and out $500.

If you worked all your life, save 1 mill. You are going to retire in a few years. Some greedy fuck come in commits fraud, your account is wiped out. Life ruined.

Also remember that same Wall Street guy could wipe out the funds of hundreds of people at the same time and ruin their lives.

Mugging only effects 1 person.

This isn't about defending Wall St....but...

I'd rather lose all of my money than be shot and potentially lose use of my legs or my life.

Furthermore, petty street crime gets in the way of economic prosperity, thus preventing people from even building successful businesses in the first place, thus forestalling any potential to lose money

 

[HomerJS]

This isn't about defending Wall St....but...

I'd rather lose all of my money than be shot and potentially lose use of my legs or my life.

Furthermore, petty street crime gets in the way of economic prosperity, thus preventing people from even building successful businesses in the first place, thus forestalling any potential to lose money

A few guys almost runing our entire ecomomy is not as bad as a street mugging?

I guess its a matter of degree.

This seems very similar to the debate over punishment for cocaine vs crack possesion.

 

[xj0hnx]

There are accusations of racism in its application, and there are arguments that it makes for safer streets.

I lean towards safer streets.

It is rough if you're an innocent person who repeated gets caught up in these things, but it is possible to train cops to do these things courteously.

Well of course you do, you're a coward and a sheep.

Stop and frisk is the opposite of freedom, I support freedom, not your neo-fascist nanny state.

 

[micrometers]

A few guys almost runing our entire ecomomy is not as bad as a street mugging?

I guess its a matter of degree.

This seems very similar to the debate over punishment for cocaine vs crack possesion.

it's a false comparison.

But FWIW, I am in favor of tougher restrictions on Wall St. I wish that TARP instead had been used to create NEW financial institutions instead of bailing out existing financial institutions and the corrupt structures in there.

But comparing white powder cocaine to crack cocaine, how often is white powder cocaine associated with a shoot out in the street, compared to crack cocaine? That was the impetus behind the sentencing disparity. Crack cocaine was far more violent.

 

[micrometers]

Well of course you do, you're a coward and a sheep.

Stop and frisk is the opposite of freedom, I support freedom, not your neo-fascist nanny state.

gung-ho "freedom" is a just a dumb feel-good slogan.

 

[xj0hnx]

gung-ho "freedom" is a just a dumb feel-good slogan.

Back to your safe, little fenced in corral. Get some rest, tomorrow you get sheared, and then mmmm, lambchops.

 

[micrometers]

Here's some data, as opposed to nebulous "values"

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/08/07/magazine/WLN103706.html

it produced a remarkable level of gun violence, particularly among young black men, who made up the bulk of street-level crack dealers. During the crack boom, the homicide rate among 13- to 17-year-old blacks nearly quintupled. But perhaps the biggest surprise in the crack index is the fact that, as of 2000 -- the most recent year for which the index data are available -- Americans were still smoking about 70 percent as much crack as they smoked when consumption was at its peak.

If so much crack is still being sold and bought, why aren't we hearing about it? Because crack-associated violence has largely disappeared. And it was the violence that made crack most relevant to the middle class. What made the violence go away? Simple economics. Urban street gangs were the main distributors of crack cocaine. In the beginning, demand for their product was phenomenal, and so were the potential profits. Most crack killings, it turns out, were not a result of some crackhead sticking up a grandmother for drug money but rather one crack dealer shooting another -- and perhaps a few bystanders -- in order to gain turf.