Stimulus Spending Doesn't Work

Apr 27, 2012
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Stimulus spending doesn't work, it is not possible for the government to stimulate the economy and only the private sector is capable of doing this. Government cant create jobs but they can only redistribute wealth. Many times with stimulus spending more government jobs are created and these require continuous spending to keep them.

Stimulus spending is flawed logic and will only continue to make things even worse for countries that use it. It will just result in more debt that is even harder to get out of.

http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...her-study-shows-stimulus-spending-doesnt-work

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748704471504574440723298786310.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wM_GsGzQPCg

Do you agree that stimulus spending doesn't work?
 

WHAMPOM

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2006
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Corporations just having had the most profitable two years in their history since the end of the era of robber barons IS a sure sign that stimulus don't work. I am so sure!
 

Jaskalas

Lifer
Jun 23, 2004
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Do you agree that stimulus spending doesn't work?

In general, yes.

There are exceptions however. In limited, temporary, endeavors the government can incur debt and/or print money. Anything more than a shot in the arm can crash the government and/or inflate the currency.

So stimulus is not a infinite magic bullet but rather a limited tool to be used wisely. Our leaders are obviously not the sort who are going to do that. For four years now stimulus has been their solution to everything, to the doom of us all.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
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It would go a lot further if you didn't have a President waging a war on corporations, the rich and wallstreet.
 
Apr 27, 2012
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In general, yes.

There are exceptions however. In limited, temporary, endeavors the government can incur debt and/or print money. Anything more than a shot in the arm can crash the government and/or inflate the currency.

So stimulus is not a infinite magic bullet but rather a limited tool to be used wisely. Our leaders are obviously not the sort who are going to do that. For four years now stimulus has been their solution to everything, to the doom of us all.

But how often does that happen though where the government just intervenes temporarily? They keep believing that they can fix the economy when they cant and all they do with "stimulus spending" is further delay the market adjusting itself.

As well the government has actually made it easier for borrowers to back out of there commitments, so why would banks lend money when they know there is a higher chance that the loan wont be paid back.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
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Government doesn't know what to spend money on. They just throw millions of dollars at agencies and demand they spend it to grow the economy. The money gets wasted on shit like $22,000 industrial routers for local library with 2 computers with dial-up because hey it's not my money, who cares if it gets wasted.

Stimulus is flawed because it is a variation of the broken window fallacy. Wasting money does not grow the economy. Destroying wealth does not grow the economy.
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
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It would go a lot further if you didn't have a President waging a war on corporations, the rich and wallstreet.

Cool story, bro.

Here's reality:

corporate-profits-just-hit-another-all-time-high.jpg
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
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Government doesn't know what to spend money on. They just throw millions of dollars at agencies and demand they spend it to grow the economy. The money gets wasted on shit like $22,000 industrial routers for local library with 2 computers with dial-up because hey it's not my money, who cares if it gets wasted.

Stimulus is flawed because it is a variation of the broken window fallacy. Wasting money does not grow the economy. Destroying wealth does not grow the economy.

Completely agree with you. There is massive waste with the stimulus money because its taxpayer money. The idea that government can create jobs is ridiculous.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPmo2e-bAMQ
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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Well... look at it from the other end of the street.

IF no one spends the economy constricts. The greatest economic boom is when folks incur debt as well as use all available funds to buy stuff. A recession occurs when fewer dollars are spent and it spirals downward toward a deep depression and deflationary activity...
Government stimulates with fiscal policy and The Fed with Monetary policy to avoid that...
What don't work is insufficient stimulus or short term stimulus when long term is needed... that take Economic brain power and it better be right or an even worse condition will visit the economy... - higher debt and back to square one -
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
87,953
55,331
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Well... look at it from the other end of the street.

IF no one spends the economy constricts. The greatest economic boom is when folks incur debt as well as use all available funds to buy stuff. A recession occurs when fewer dollars are spent and it spirals downward toward a deep depression and deflationary activity...
Government stimulates with fiscal policy and The Fed with Monetary policy to avoid that...
What don't work is insufficient stimulus or short term stimulus when long term is needed... that take Economic brain power and it better be right or an even worse condition will visit the economy... - higher debt and back to square one -

There are plenty of historical studies that come to the opposite conclusion from this one. I'd be interested to see what economists think about it, and I imagine they will talk about it in the near future.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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There are plenty of historical studies that come to the opposite conclusion from this one. I'd be interested to see what economists think about it, and I imagine they will talk about it in the near future.

I assume you're speaking to my simple analysis as being unsupported by data.

I should have also added 'Ceteris Paribus' ;)

But that aside, I think in very simple terms. I also believe that each recession has unique issues that alter the effect of the data and the algorithms must be adjusted to reflect this.

In today's economy we've issues beyond Economics. Or maybe it is part of or a major component of the Economic issues and that is Congress. Historically both sides sought to remedy while today either side seeks to destroy the economy for political opportunity or refrain from any action (democrats) in order to have their political hammer.

Dollars make dollars and the simple truth is that the fewer of them being spent will cause constricted business activity and reduce the Revenue the Government needs to balance its books and as that continues Business constricts more and that produces fewer dollars being spent and the spiral continues... I can see no other way to alter that than to stimulate but with the notion that the effect will produce a zero sum within the economic cycle. It never has to my knowledge because of other issues occurring during those cycles... like War and stuff.

I'd favor Isolation or a move toward that with all the bits and pieces considered... But, we won't go there and there are arguments against it in the long term... short term we do suffer Comparative Disadvantages with many of our trading partners to the extent we don't play or play in their parks.

Today, we can create jobs... but I look at the net dollar earned by those jobs... Tell me Obama created 4m jobs and I ask how much is the dollar delta of the folks who were working and lost their jobs but now work again... I would like the analysis to be in equivalent earnings.... That is the real deal... While even lower paying jobs is great the stimulus effect might oughta looked at in terms of the short and long term... As well as the micro and macro aspects...

heeheheheh No one ever offered me a tenured track so what do I know... Well... I know Albertson's is reducing its workforce 2500 people in California for some reason and it ain't more Mom and Pop stores and it is probably more Costco and Wallymarts... lower wages created for those or some fewer than 2500 souls...

Edit: Smart businees moves to maintain earnings on a large large scale is what we've seen over the last decade or more.... How does Government, whose job is to provide for the needs of the people, deal with that? We need some 150k jobs a month to just deal with new entry workers....

My simple math says 36 months of Obama or any other president at 150k jobs a month is.... lots of jobs and we've gained 4m... hmmmm something not balancing yet.
 
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Bowfinger

Lifer
Nov 17, 2002
15,776
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It would go a lot further if you didn't have a President waging a war on corporations, the rich and wallstreet.
Fortunately, we don't. We do have the RNC propaganda machine and it's obedient flock endlessly repeating that mantra, however.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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Hmm, maybe I am seeing an alternate Universe Obama.....

With a Conservative House and a Stalemated Senate I don't see what the Executive has to be all executive about. Folks say well... Obama had a Democratic House for two years... And, I say he never had a Senate free to pass too much in a Democratic notion... Filly buster this and filly buster that leaves not much to do but Health Care... hehehehe and I'll bet the Senate passed that only to be able to spear Obama with its failed components...

There can be no doubt that the patient is bleeding.... It would be nice if we could agree on that... and maybe sorta even notice where so if some enterprising soul comes along with a band aid they'd know where to apply it.... but, nope we sit around casting lots for his bloody clothes as if that fixes the problem.... maybe that is the problem... this dude is dead... let's move on to the next step... bury him...
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
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Corporations are afraid to hire new employees because the government makes it so expensive and risky

Oh, bullshit.

Corporations are making money hand over fist. They'd just rather hire people in Bangladesh than in the US.

With a Conservative House and a Stalemated Senate I don't see what the Executive has to be all executive about. Folks say well... Obama had a Democratic House for two years... And, I say he never had a Senate free to pass too much in a Democratic notion... Filly buster this and filly buster that leaves not much to do but Health Care... hehehehe and I'll bet the Senate passed that only to be able to spear Obama with its failed components...

Exactly. The "Obama had two years to pass whatever he wanted" is another Fox News / talk radio lie. Since the Republicans decided to become traitors by putting their political needs ahead of those of the country, there was nothing he could do for most of those two years.
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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Oh, bullshit.

Corporations are making money hand over fist. They'd just rather hire people in Bangladesh than in the US.



Exactly. The "Obama had two years to pass whatever he wanted" is another Fox News / talk radio lie. Since the Republicans decided to become traitors by putting their political needs ahead of those of the country, there was nothing he could do for most of those two years.

From a business perspective Bangladesh is the smart move. Government should incentivize against that... I think that is money well spent and it is break even to business or could be and to government too. If I were still running Finance for Digital Machines I'd opt for what made the most profit... That is what folks get paid to do. The only thing between a company and its profit is government and it can be a benign friend or a powerful enemy.... But, even that friend can let a drowning person die... or provide what fiscal policy ought to do... maintain employment here.

The bit Obama was able to get done is just not enough... duh... it is obvious! These clowns need being sequestered in a slaughter house until they come together with a plan and get it implemented...

The newest fly in the ointment is 'Citizens United'... and SUTOCS... a backward group of idiots if ever a group existed on a court...

Corporations are people and people own corporations and who are these people?... Big tobacco pumps almost $50m into opposition for Ca's prop 29.... and it worked... From March to end of May the 'yes' dropped 18 points in the polls...
If China wanted to influence US politics they have an open door to do so... As I see it... But, more importantly my vote carries no weight compared to the influence a bazillion dollars does... in causing others to believe what is being proffered... and it works...
No one can convince me that big money works for little folks... when they invest so much for their own agenda... amazing, freedom at work...
 

LunarRay

Diamond Member
Mar 2, 2003
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Because regulations hurt business.

This would be a case of not regulations but there is a greater incentive to off shore stuff than do it here... profit... and profit is good stuff... it is the motivator for good stuff and stuff that seems bad but is in keeping with what corporations ought to be doing... making a profit for their owners...
 

Charles Kozierok

Elite Member
May 14, 2012
6,762
1
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This would be a case of not regulations but there is a greater incentive to off shore stuff than do it here... profit... and profit is good stuff... it is the motivator for good stuff and stuff that seems bad but is in keeping with what corporations ought to be doing... making a profit for their owners...

Responding to that guy in detail is like trying to talk sense into a Fox News chyron.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
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So the CBO, Moody's, and almost every other economic study disagrees.

If tax cuts did so much for the economy during a down period then how come we haven't had a huge boom since the Bush tax cuts were enacted (and extended)? Why haven't we had huge economic growth because of them?


You're good at lobbing these bullshit bombs but you are absolutely horrible at backing up your ideas. Much like the quack cancer doctor who can't even bring his "cure" to any other easy regulation countries, you cherry pick your data and refuse to answer even simple logical questions.

You're the quintessential teabagger. Long on words, short on logic and data.
 
Apr 27, 2012
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So the CBO, Moody's, and almost every other economic study disagrees.

If tax cuts did so much for the economy during a down period then how come we haven't had a huge boom since the Bush tax cuts were enacted (and extended)? Why haven't we had huge economic growth because of them?


You're good at lobbing these bullshit bombs but you are absolutely horrible at backing up your ideas. Much like the quack cancer doctor who can't even bring his "cure" to any other easy regulation countries, you cherry pick your data and refuse to answer even simple logical questions.

You're the quintessential teabagger. Long on words, short on logic and data.

Just because there are studies that disagree doesn't mean its true, there are lots more studies and real world cases where stimulus doesn't work.

The government caused the recession and they will only make it worse by trying to fix it.
 

Retro Rob

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2012
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From a business perspective Bangladesh is the smart move. Government should incentivize against that... I think that is money well spent and it is break even to business or could be and to government too. If I were still running Finance for Digital Machines I'd opt for what made the most profit... That is what folks get paid to do. The only thing between a company and its profit is government and it can be a benign friend or a powerful enemy.... But, even that friend can let a drowning person die... or provide what fiscal policy ought to do... maintain employment here.

This is the problem... the most profit... yada yada... greed aint good...

This sort of thinking backs people into corners, deciding whether to go without food or pay the rent this month.

What makes the most profit for businesses is to cut pay to employees (whether its laying them off, cutting salary/benefits, shipping $20/hr jobs to Afghanistan in return for $7/hr labor).

Yeah, nothing works in this world, and never will. Keep complaining about Obama, and you'll complain about Romney, and the next President.

Changing people won't work, changing attitudes will. But that won't happen either....