Still not convinced a add-in soundcard would be better then onboard

[Emig5m]

Hi all, I'm currently using the built in sound on my motherboard (Abit AV8). I know there's no comparison when comparing analog signals, the onboard DAC is crap, forget about using it, but I'm using digital optical out to my home theater receiver using it for the DAC. Sound is night and day difference.

What I was wondering is if it would be worth upgrading to a add-in soundcard over my onboard but only comparing digital optical out since I have no plans on ever using analog again (convenience of using one cable vs six, using a higher quality DAC over a PC soundcard, etc.) Would a add-in card...

* Sound better over my onboard AC97 (when using digital optical connection)

* Use less CPU resources (make games run smoother when alot of sound action is present.

If so I will consider dumping the $$ to buy one but the following criterias must be met for the card....

* Must have digital optical in and outputs on the card and not some drive bay in the front of the PC.

* Must output game surround over optical connection.

I was looking at the new Creative X-fi but for the price it doesn't seem to offer me much as far as what I need (rear digital optical in and outputs, dolby digital live, etc) Now that card is out of the question (money isn't an issue to me as long it does what I need it to do) that leaves me looking at the Turtle Beach Montego DDL soundcard. It has my rear optical in and out, does realtime dolby digital encoding for game surround sound support over digital optical connection. Those are two major things I need the expensive, fancy, and popular Creative card fails to offer me. Why doesn't Creative offer a card that's geared towards using a higher quality sound system then PC multimedia speaker/Analog?

Well anyway, now that you know my needs, would the Turtle Beach Montego DDL...

* Help make games run smoother offloading work from the CPU?

* Sound better then my onboard AC97 (not comparing DACs, only usage over the digital optical connection) I know a digital signal is a digital signal but still, will the sound processing chip of the hardware on the Turtle Beach make a better end-result sound in both games and general multimedia playback (mp3, music, movies, games, etc)?

Please help me decide if I should get a add-in soundcard!

 

[Meuge]

The only reason why you'd want to switch is if you wanted to be able to output real non-upsampled 44.1kHz music. Otherwise, your sound card will do the job fine.

 

[Emig5m]

So... It wouldn't even be much of a difference in making games run smoother taking more load off the cpu? Sound quality would be about the same too?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Sound quality for music should be pretty much the same.

I think the main reason to do this would be if you need those features that the Montego offers. If you want true surround sound and digital input, then go for it.

I've seen performance numbers for the X-Mystique showing that DDL encoding on top of EAX processing doesn't really have much of a performance hit vs analog output.
http://www.nvnews.net/reviews/x-mystique/page_3.shtml

I'm not sure if the same figures would apply for the Montego.

 

[Boogak]

Not sure about it making a FPS difference, if so it would just be a few % I would think. The biggest difference would be the ability to have a true 5.1 signal outputting from your soundcard to your receiver in games and Windows in general, since the Montego DDL can encode and output everything into a 5.1 signal. I'm guessing you're just getting a 2 channel PCM signal right now from your games, music, and everything else that's not a DVD with a 5.1 soundtrack?

 

[Finns14]

Hey I had the same exact question as you regarding a sound card and I'm in the process of putting my sound card in on my other comp I will certainly let you know my results. From what I heard yes it will take off some stress in games which is a plus for me also the 3d sound helps you better located in game noise.

 

[velis]

What I don't understand here is how your onboard (realtek possibly) can output > stereo over SPDIF.
I have a similar setup (ASUS A8N-SLI DeLuxe), but the onboard chip will only output stereo PCM unless you play a DVD which already has AC3 soundtrack and is just forwarded to optical without any conversion.
If you can verify that your onboard chip will in fact output 5.1 signal over SPDIF then you need no other soundcard since yours will do real-time dolby encoding already (highly unlikely - I believe only NForce2 had integrated audio with such capability). There is a slight (although improbable) possibility that the encoding is done in driver in which case a HW assited card would show on your CPU usage.

I don't know about your speakers, but my Logitech Z-5500 control unit will show whether the SPDIF signal is AC3 or PCM. Should the signal be PCM you'll probably want the card just to be able to enjoy your games in full surround instead of 5.1 (game) downsampled to stereo (SPDIF) upsampled to 5.1 (speakers).

 

[crazylegs]

I am happily outputting sound using an SPDIF (not the optical) out from my ASUS A8N-SLI... into a 5.1 AS speaker package i got for £8 from eBay...

Sounds not AMAZING (it only cost £8...) - but pretty damn good if you ask me... especially in CS:S - man it sounds like i'm in a WAR ZONE !!!

Keep the onbaord un-less ur a true audiophile

 

[Emig5m]

Originally posted by: velis
What I don't understand here is how your onboard (realtek possibly) can output > stereo over SPDIF.
I have a similar setup (ASUS A8N-SLI DeLuxe), but the onboard chip will only output stereo PCM unless you play a DVD which already has AC3 soundtrack and is just forwarded to optical without any conversion.
If you can verify that your onboard chip will in fact output 5.1 signal over SPDIF then you need no other soundcard since yours will do real-time dolby encoding already (highly unlikely - I believe only NForce2 had integrated audio with such capability). There is a slight (although improbable) possibility that the encoding is done in driver in which case a HW assited card would show on your CPU usage.

I don't know about your speakers, but my Logitech Z-5500 control unit will show whether the SPDIF signal is AC3 or PCM. Should the signal be PCM you'll probably want the card just to be able to enjoy your games in full surround instead of 5.1 (game) downsampled to stereo (SPDIF) upsampled to 5.1 (speakers).

You're 100% correct. The chipset is realtek and I'm only stereo PCM over optical and my receiver clearly says the input signal is PCM 48khz unless of course like you stated, I'm playing a DVD. Well... it looks like the only reason now for me to upgrade would be for surround support for games over optical but I gotta be honest, since getting a little hardcore with UT2004 online, a good set headphones seem to be the way to go. Since then I've been using headphones for all of my FPS games and racing games I've been happy enough with standard stereo.

I'm pretty much using surround sound only for movies so I guess it might not be a worthwhile upgrade for me to get the Turtle Beach since the sound quality and system performance isn't goin to be noticable.

BTW, I'm using a Sony str-de845 receiver with 400 watt RMS 15" Cerwin-Vega VS-150 mains.

 

[velis]

Nice spk set. Of course mine are better
I agree with you on headphone set. I'm looking into Zalman ZM-RS6F for exactly the same purpose.
A HW Dolby assisted soundcard on the other hand would cost just about the same but since my comp is in my living room, I'll probably go with the Zalmans.
I just hate NVidia for killing Soundstorm

 

[sandeep108]

So would the Audigy 2 ZS output sound in 5.1 over the SPDIF signal to an A/V receiver to allow surround sound in games?

 

[Boogak]

Originally posted by: sandeep108
So would the Audigy 2 ZS output sound in 5.1 over the SPDIF signal to an A/V receiver to allow surround sound in games?

No, not over SPDIF. If you want 5.1 sound in games with any Creative product, you'd have to use some adapter cables and a receiver with discrete multi-channel analog inputs.

 

[Wentelteefje]

Not sure about it making a FPS difference, if so it would just be a few % I would think.

Hey I had the same exact question as you regarding a sound card and I'm in the process of putting my sound card in on my other comp I will certainly let you know my results. From what I heard yes it will take off some stress in games which is a plus for me also the 3d sound helps you better located in game noise.

Unfortunately and unlike you'd guess, there is no noticeable difference within games... I've tested this myself, and I was very disappointed about it... I expected to see frame rates rise by 6-7 frames at least, but the margin was generally only 1 frame extra... Too bad...

Very strange actually, because disabling the onboard sound, and then gaming, gave me big increases... (sometimes up to 15 frames per second extra!) So I guess buying the sound card is only a matter of sound quality, not better performance...

 

[velis]

Well, you can't really expect a new sound card to lower your CPU usage just like that.
The proc has to prepare all the sound data for the sound card to process it and output it to the speakers / SPDIF.
There could only be a difference if there was such an API that would allow for minimum CPU involvement in preparing stage.

 

[sandeep108]

Is SPDIF the same as digital co-ax out? Well, I can use the analog connectors also. I think the A/V receiver will have analog line outs as well, if I want to still use my old Altec Lansings 4.1 speakers.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

is there anyway to transmit actual multichannel thru spdif? I have an 7.1 home theater system and I would like to play CS source in 7.1 glory...

 

[Matthias99]

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
is there anyway to transmit actual multichannel thru spdif? I have an 7.1 home theater system and I would like to play CS source in 7.1 glory...

Only if you have a soundcard that can encode realtime to Dolby Digital or DTS. SoundStorm on the NForce2 chipset could do this; I think there are (finally) some add-in boards that can as well (but not anything made by Creative). But even then you're limited to 5.1, and the bitrate isn't great. But if you *have* to have multichannel output over optical/coax from games, that's how to do it. Almost any soundcard can output pre-encoded DD/DTS streams (from DVDs, etc.) over SP/DIF.

Honestly, the best thing for multichannel from a computer is to get a receiver that can take analog inputs (generally used for DVD-Audio), or good-quality 5/6/7.1 computer speakers.

 

[agnitrate]

My BlueGears X-Mystique has onboard dolby digital encoding that I output to my receiver via optical. It has both digital RCA and optical out on the back. It's a very nice card and cost $100, about half as much as the Creative X-Fi cards and those don't even do Dolby digital encoding. You should check it out.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: Matthias99

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
is there anyway to transmit actual multichannel thru spdif? I have an 7.1 home theater system and I would like to play CS source in 7.1 glory...

Only if you have a soundcard that can encode realtime to Dolby Digital or DTS. SoundStorm on the NForce2 chipset could do this; I think there are (finally) some add-in boards that can as well (but not anything made by Creative). But even then you're limited to 5.1, and the bitrate isn't great. But if you *have* to have multichannel output over optical/coax from games, that's how to do it. Almost any soundcard can output pre-encoded DD/DTS streams (from DVDs, etc.) over SP/DIF.

Honestly, the best thing for multichannel from a computer is to get a receiver that can take analog inputs (generally used for DVD-Audio), or good-quality 5/6/7.1 computer speakers.

oh ok i see...i was never clear on that.

My BlueGears X-Mystique has onboard dolby digital encoding that I output to my receiver via optical. It has both digital RCA and optical out on the back. It's a very nice card and cost $100, about half as much as the Creative X-Fi cards and those don't even do Dolby digital encoding. You should check it out.

yeah man, that card looks good. How's the sound...its prolly really good

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

There are several other DDL solutions now, and also bluegears is coming out with a DTS card soon.

Their driver support hasn't been the greatest though, I'm not sure if I'd purchase from them again.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
There are several other DDL solutions now, and also bluegears is coming out with a DTS card soon.

Their driver support hasn't been the greatest though, I'm not sure if I'd purchase from them again.

yo dawg...anything in particular there I should look at? Also, you know any websites where I can read up on this stuff?

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
There are several other DDL solutions now, and also bluegears is coming out with a DTS card soon.

Their driver support hasn't been the greatest though, I'm not sure if I'd purchase from them again.

yo dawg...anything in particular there I should look at? Also, you know any websites where I can read up on this stuff?

AVSforum in the computer area would probably have more DDL info for you.

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
There are several other DDL solutions now, and also bluegears is coming out with a DTS card soon.

Their driver support hasn't been the greatest though, I'm not sure if I'd purchase from them again.

yo dawg...anything in particular there I should look at? Also, you know any websites where I can read up on this stuff?

AVSforum in the computer area would probably have more DDL info for you.

couldnt find a computer area in avs

 

[YOyoYOhowsDAjello]

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
There are several other DDL solutions now, and also bluegears is coming out with a DTS card soon.

Their driver support hasn't been the greatest though, I'm not sure if I'd purchase from them again.

yo dawg...anything in particular there I should look at? Also, you know any websites where I can read up on this stuff?

AVSforum in the computer area would probably have more DDL info for you.

couldnt find a computer area in avs

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26

 

[Inspector Jihad]

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad

Originally posted by: YOyoYOhowsDAjello
There are several other DDL solutions now, and also bluegears is coming out with a DTS card soon.

Their driver support hasn't been the greatest though, I'm not sure if I'd purchase from them again.

yo dawg...anything in particular there I should look at? Also, you know any websites where I can read up on this stuff?

AVSforum in the computer area would probably have more DDL info for you.

couldnt find a computer area in avs

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=26

i suck
you > me