Still losing 500,000 jobs PER WEEK...prepare

Jiggz

Diamond Member
Mar 10, 2001
4,329
0
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And I have no doubt it's all Booosh fault! Those damn 8 years are just hard to correct, eh. Move forward 3 years and you'll hear the same whining . . .
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
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A large portion of the 460K are natural detachment in the economy. IIRC, the long-run average is ~300K/wk jobs "lost". Thus, we aren't really "losing" that many jobs per week, we are only losing a differential of ~182K/wk.

Nice doomsday post though. Between you and Warren Buffet, I'll pick Buffet for my world outlook.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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And I have no doubt it's all Booosh fault! Those damn 8 years are just hard to correct, eh. Move forward 3 years and you'll hear the same whining . . .

Well, much of the underpinnings of this Depression asserted themselves under Bush. If Bush and the Republicans are so wonderful, why didn't they end foreign outsourcing, the H-1B and L-1 visa programs, and mass legal and illegal immigration? Global Labor Arbitrage is the engine that ultimately destroyed this nation's economy and Bush just cheered it on and encouraged it.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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That job loss number is inaccurate. Perhaps 480,000 people lost their job, but presumably a couple hundred thousand also started jobs. It's really better to just look at the monthly net figure and then add about 150,000 to it (to account for population growth).

That increase of 36,000 is ominous, though. I wonder what the figures will look like for January. Perhaps it will make Obama and Congress get serious about jobs and the economy.
 

bobsmith1492

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2004
3,875
3
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Well, much of the underpinnings of this Depression asserted themselves under Bush. If Bush and the Republicans are so wonderful, why didn't they end foreign outsourcing, the H-1B and L-1 visa programs, and mass legal and illegal immigration? Global Labor Arbitrage is the engine that ultimately destroyed this nation's economy and Bush just cheered it on and encouraged it.

Indeed, we'd be much better off if our plastic keychains were Made In America and cost $10 apiece. Actually, maybe if there were not such high minimum wage regulations, our non-working poor could actually build such things here. Hmm...
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,336
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Indeed, we'd be much better off if our plastic keychains were Made In America and cost $10 apiece. Actually, maybe if there were not such high minimum wage regulations, our non-working poor could actually build such things here. Hmm...
Yeah, damn that standard of living.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
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Yeah, damn that standard of living.

Yeah, they might have to work *gasp* two jobs like my dad did for many years.

Having a job is better than not.

Not to mention, if there are more jobs and less people, the market will raise wages on their own.
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
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A large portion of the 460K are natural detachment in the economy. IIRC, the long-run average is ~300K/wk jobs "lost". Thus, we aren't really "losing" that many jobs per week, we are only losing a differential of ~182K/wk.

Nice doomsday post though. Between you and Warren Buffet, I'll pick Buffet for my world outlook.

So, I guess that means that you don't agree with Obama's new regulations on banks, cause Buffet surely doesn't based on his interview on CNBC earlier this week.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
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A large portion of the 460K are natural detachment in the economy. IIRC, the long-run average is ~300K/wk jobs "lost". Thus, we aren't really "losing" that many jobs per week, we are only losing a differential of ~182K/wk.

Nice doomsday post though. Between you and Warren Buffet, I'll pick Buffet for my world outlook.

():)
I sell booze.
I netting out about 700 a day a year ago..today I'm doing about 250. YMMV.

PS My buddies who own bars are in the shitter,,that tells me more than Buffet ever could. Money is not getting to main street.
 
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LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
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So, I guess that means that you don't agree with Obama's new regulations on banks, cause Buffet surely doesn't based on his interview on CNBC earlier this week.

I don't agree with the regulations he's proposing in the structure he's proposing it.

I do agree on several other aspects of what he's proposing. For example, sub-pennying and high-speed prop trading to front-run traditional NBBO structures through dark-pools.

I also agree with the concept of finding a way to reduce risk to deposits through some type of reconciliation of i-bank/c-bank risks.

However, Glass-Stegall couldn't have prevented this in total, there are several other aspects that need to change.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Indeed, we'd be much better off if our plastic keychains were Made In America and cost $10 apiece. Actually, maybe if there were not such high minimum wage regulations, our non-working poor could actually build such things here. Hmm...

You're only looking at the front end costs and completely ignoring the back-end costs.

How is it that the United States manged to survive in the 40's, 50's, 60's, and 70's before foreign outsourcing? (Amazingly, people were able to own a home and raise a family on a single income back then.)

What good is a 25% price decrease as a result of having goods and services produced in China if people's wages and benefits decrease by 30%? If the net effect is decreased purchasing power and a decreased standard of living then what good is the foreign outsourcing?

Do you think that Americans can consume more wealth than what they produce and that by having China produce the wealth that we can magically consume more wealth than we produce? What we are actually doing is impoverishing ourselves by trading hard assets--land, real estate, and business ownership--for short-term ephemeral goods and services. (Do a Google search for Warren Buffet's essay, Squanderville.) Do you think China is sending all of that stuff to us for free?

Sure, the prices of goods and services might decrease on the front end--but at what cost? What about the invisible back-end costs? Are the front-end price savings greater than the invisible back-end costs such as increased unemployment and underemployment, increased poverty, increased criminal justice costs, increased social costs, and increased government welfare costs? The money people might save on widgets will be lost when they have to pay higher taxes (to cover those back-end costs) or when they lose their jobs themselves.

If anyone benefits it will be the wealthy class that can now keep a larger portion of a worker's contribution to the act of wealth production as profit. If anything, Global Labor Arbitrage is ultimately a transfer of wealth from the lower classes to the wealthy. In the meantime the American standard of living will sink to third world levels as a result of supply-and-demand and the merging of the U.S. economy and labor market with third world economies and labor markets.

I guess it's easy to tout the values of foreign outsourcing, H-1B and L-1 visas, and mass immigration until someone offers to do your job for 1/4 of your wage.

First they came for the manufacturing and construction jobs, but I was not a blue collar laborer. Then they came for the computer programmer jobs, but I was not a computer programmer. Then they came for the engineering jobs, but I was not an engineer. Then they came for the accounting and financial analyst jobs, but I was not an account nor a financial analyst. Then they came for the science jobs, but I was not a scientist. When the supply of and demand for labor finally caught up with my job, there was no one left to speak for me, there was only third world poverty.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,685
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I do agree on several other aspects of what he's proposing. For example, sub-pennying and high-speed prop trading to front-run traditional NBBO structures through dark-pools.

Could we have that in plain english, please?

I'm not being facetious- I have a genuine interest in your take on the current situation... I just don't speak the lingo...
 
Oct 30, 2004
11,442
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Yeah, they might have to work *gasp* two jobs like my dad did for many years.

Having a job is better than not.

Not to mention, if there are more jobs and less people, the market will raise wages on their own.

But Global Labor Arbitrage--foreign outsourcing, work visas, and mass immigration means exactly the opposite. It means that we are merging our labor market with the billions of impoverished people in the third world. Thus the number of people relative to jobs (capital, demand for labor) is going to increase dramatically. It's simple math.

If you're waiting and hoping for the market to raise wages on its own as a result of there being fewer people in the labor market, don't hold your breath--at least don't hold it until we have politicians who support an "Americans first" policy.
 
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Oct 30, 2004
11,442
32
91
():)
I sell booze.
I netting out about 700 a day a year ago..today I'm doing about 250. YMMV.

PS My buddies who own bars are in the shitter,,that tells me more than Buffet ever could. Money is not getting to main street.

So, people aren't drowning their sorrows at the bars? Do you they're drinking at home instead?
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,422
14,337
136
And I have no doubt it's all Booosh fault! Those damn 8 years are just hard to correct, eh. Move forward 3 years and you'll hear the same whining . . .

Wasn't the recession in 2001 supposed to have been Clinton's fault? And wasn't it still Clinton's fault in 2004?
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Whipper - we are in a race to the bottom. I suspected this for some time but never coalesced these thoughts until your postings. thanks.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Could we have that in plain english, please?

I'm not being facetious- I have a genuine interest in your take on the current situation... I just don't speak the lingo...

When people go to buy stocks, the trades are posted publicly and are placed in a queue in order of placement by price. Let's say that you want to buy a stock for 5.90 and the price is 5.90, but you're 5th in line. A broker using a high-speed trading system can see that you want to buy that stock, so they, instead, put in an offer for 5.9001 and can fill the order before you, using a price you can't access. He, effectively cut in line by cheating.

This happens a lot, far more than anybody really really cares to talk about. It's how many of these banks are making shit-tons of money on trading.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
So, people aren't drowning their sorrows at the bars? Do you they're drinking at home instead?

Maybe I just have bad management...I'm not one to mind store..like to hunt and fish too much...But no sales have dropped off with every liquor store owner I know.(in OK every store is stand alone no grocery) That's okay though...Ill have about 85K worth of booze to drink if SHTF.:rolleyes: Seriously...until debt is cleared though the system and we get real paying jobs everything is at risk in this country.
 

theeedude

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,197
126
I am not buying a house yet. Look, we got government that is going to be ineffective in stimulating economy, if it wasn't effective before Republicans could filibuster stimulus, it sure is not going to be effective now. I predict we are in for another dip and a W shaped very painful recession.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
70,150
5
0
I am not buying a house yet. Look, we got government that is going to be ineffective in stimulating economy, if it wasn't effective before Republicans could filibuster stimulus, it sure is not going to be effective now. I predict we are in for another dip and a W shaped very painful recession.
Interest rates may go up so you'll have less money to use but at the same time housing prices will dip, too.

They've actually gone up a good bit recently in the UK somehow. Maybe it's an anomaly or maybe not. My guess is the price of an average house in the US will be less in 6 months than it is today.
 

cliftonite

Diamond Member
Jul 15, 2001
6,899
63
91
Interest rates may go up so you'll have less money to use but at the same time housing prices will dip, too.

They've actually gone up a good bit recently in the UK somehow. Maybe it's an anomaly or maybe not. My guess is the price of an average house in the US will be less in 6 months than it is today.

Absolutely. Homes that sold for 400 to 500 from 03 to 04 in some areas of NJ are on sale for 700 to 800. Most have been listed for over a year now.
 
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