Still like the Koch brothers?

[Dman8777]

Yes, it can. Two wrongs don't make a right. We should be rolling back subsidies on all energy forms and let the true cost through, then allow the market to work.

I imagine oil wouldn't look so great if the trillions spent on our meddling in the Middle East were included in every gallon of gas.

Capitalist forces won't address the long term damage that burning all of the worlds fossil fuels will cause. I highly doubt government regulation one way or the other will really change the situation though.

 

[trenchfoot]

Fossil fuels are a finite resource. The Koch brothers are reaping the profits from a finite resource. It's only a matter of whether or not the Koch brothers will outlive this finite resource, as once its gone, they would then flawlessly transition themselves into the industry leaders of renewable energy.

It doesn't really matter where the energy comes from as far as the Kochs are concerned. All they're concerned with is where the search for profits will lead them.

 

[theeedude]

Kochs are leaders in refining because they got into the refining business relatively early on. Their daddy invented some key refining technologies in the 20s and started building refineries for Stalin. They aren't inventing key renewable technologies, someone else is. Which is not to say they can't rotate out of fossil fuels into a renewables if there is a transition, but the longer they wait, the less they will get for their refining business, and the more they will pay for a renewables stake.

 

[Newell Steamer]

The Koch brothers aren't destroying America; they are building a cheaper more profit generating one.

 

[BoberFett]

Capitalist forces won't address the long term damage that burning all of the worlds fossil fuels will cause. I highly doubt government regulation one way or the other will really change the situation though.

And honestly I'd have no problem with taxes that deal with those externalities. If there was a tax that was used to pay for the cost of planting trees or whatever method was chosen for balancing the environmental effects, I'd support that. Of course you know that such a tax would never be earmarked for such a thing, the money would end up in the general fund, used for pork, and the environment would continue to be damaged. We'd just have shithead politicians with more money with which to buy votes.

 

[werepossum]

Not always true. If you live in the boonies you stand a far better chance of your power being generated by hydro... So if you live in rural TN or Western NC, that TN Valley Authority project from the 30's is providing dirt cheap power versus coal, gas, or nuclear... So while the distribution infrastructure is still part of the cost, the balance comes from cheaper production. Cities may have density, buy I would suggest that the grid infrastructure has to be more robust and cost of servicing that goes hand in hand. Additionally, retrofitting or new line work in cities has to be stupid expensive from a permitting and right of way perspective.

That's a good point which in turn points out how extremely difficult it would be to calculate the actual breakdown.

Kochs are leaders in refining because they got into the refining business relatively early on. Their daddy invented some key refining technologies in the 20s and started building refineries for Stalin. They aren't inventing key renewable technologies, someone else is. Which is not to say they can't rotate out of fossil fuels into a renewables if there is a transition, but the longer they wait, the less they will get for their refining business, and the more they will pay for a renewables stake.

I suspect that like pretty much every major energy company they are quietly investing in renewable technologies against the day the worm turns and refineries are no longer profitable.

 

[WHAMPOM]

I guess I'm supposed to lose sleep worrying about what the Koch Brothers are doing and to think that I thought conservatives were supposed to be the fear mongers.

Learn from history; Hearst Industries Owned a lot of wood pulp paper plants, newspapers, ran an anti hemp campaign in his papers to kill a rival paper industry that did not need a huge industrial plant to compete. Do I need to mention the recent changes in Patent and Copyright laws and the abuse of threatened lawsuits to bankrupt small innovators and steal their innovations.