Steroids...

[WCRemix]

Cobra's thread made me think about weight lifting and body building, and I have been researching steroids a lot lately. The forums with people that use, always say the side affects are mostly avoidable, if done correctly. I of course expected them to say this, with them using and all, so my question is, has anyone tried, or have known a gear user? And what were the results?



YHPM
Mod

 

[Aimster]

Yeah someone "I know" started steroids and his nipples started to itch. Before he knew it he got puffy nipples and had to get surgery to remove it.

Http://www.bodybuilding.com
Check the forums.

They know which is good they will tell you which anti-estrogen pills to get.

so if you want to risk manboobs, small genitals and going bald for muscle go for it.

 

[purbeast0]

steroids are for pussies.

 

[SVT Cobra]

OP may I ask how old are you first?

 

[SVT Cobra]

Just some things to consider (for everyone reading this, not just the OP) This was written BY bodybuilders not by some health teacher preaching propaganda, THIS IS THE REAL TRUTH. This was written for those under 21, but many of these problems still effect those 21 and older also. That's what happens when you pump synthetic hormones into your body.

Health Risks

When you are under 21, your endocrine system is still developing. This should be obvious as you are still going through the end of puberty, getting acne, etc. During this time peroid, supplementing with extrogenous hormones is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS. There is potential for very serious and long term side effects to occur. I hear all the time some of these people saying that "I've stopped growing, so it's okay". No - it's not okay. There are many other potential side effects besides growth plates. Here is a list of a few.

1) Premature closing of growth plates. This one is the most known about. Even if you think you have stopped growing, there still is a potential for height increase over time. I have known people who are 18+ who have continued to grow in height. Scientists know that growth plates don't fuse completely in some cases until individuals are past 22. Don't be deterred just because you haven't grown taller in awhile.

2) Impotence. Supplementing with hormones while you are still growing can potentially cause PERMANENT impotence and fertility issues in teenagers. When you add testosterone, estrogen and a wealth of other synthetic androgens to your body it can cause problems with your normal testicular growth and function. Remember, some of these effects are more than just temporary.

3) Liver/Kidney Problems. I hear all the time teenagers say "Well my friends used it and they got big and nothing happened to them." Really? How do you know? Have they been to a doctor and had their liver and kidney values checked? I doubt it. Just because a person looks okay on the outside, doesn't mean that they could have a host of problems on the inside. Liver and kidney damage is nothing short of serious. This can occur even in people who are past their teen years.

4) Gyno or "bitch tits". I believe this using androgens in teens can really increase the risk of gyno. Gyno has been known to happen naturally in many teenagers because of already fluxating hormones. When you add more hormones to the mix, you dramatically increase the problems. Remember that once you have gyno, its very hard to get rid of unless you take the proper precautions up front.

5) Hair loss/acne/prostate aggrevation, etc. All of these can be increased and agrevated with external androgen use. Have you ever seen a 20 year old going bald? It's not pretty. Don't think it can't happen to you.

6) Brain function. It is well known that hormones play a role in development of cognative brain function. Adding external hormones when your brain is still developing could be a disaster waiting to happen. How can you know many years down the road there won't be problems?

Psychological Problems

Being a teenager can be difficult as it is. Getting used to your own body image can be hard if you feel you're different than everyone else. Many teenagers turn to bodybuilding to help improve that image, and that can be a very healthy thing. However, when a teenager becomes obsessed or is only after short term goals of getting ripped in 6 weeks then it can be a very serious problem when prohormones/steroids get in the mix.

1) Abuse. There is a high potential for abuse when individuals turn to prohormones/steroids when they aren't mature enough to handle them. Most of these individuals had these substances recommended to them by friends with erroneous data presented to them on how to use them and how they work. I have seen teenagers on this board claim to never come off cycles of Mag-10 and 1AD. There is no reason to abuse your body like that. Never coming off hormones can have even greater risks than using them for the short term, such as halting normal hormone production permantely. If you have a problem and want to discuss it with us, please post it.

Legal Problems

Using steroids and prohormones underage can have very obvious legal implications. Since all prohormones have labels on them indicated that they are not for use for individuals under 18, you take into liability not only yourself and your family, but risk liability on the manufacturer and seller who sold these substances to you. By doing this, you are hurting the community who use these substances responsibly. Take responsibility for yourself and stay away from these. Causing harm to yourself is one thing, but everytime a teenager uses prohormones, the potential for them being banned increases. Here are some other problems

1) Drug testing. If you are a teenager playing sports, using steroids and prohormones can seem like a good idea to increase your performance. How would it look if you suddenly got tested for them? Being tested for prohormones WILL SHOW UP AS STEROIDS. You will have no recourse for this, and could potentially find yourself being investigated by the authorities.

2) Purchasing steroids is already illegal, but purchasing prohormones can have implications as well. As I already said, on all bottles of prohormones there is a label saying "Not for use for individuals under 18". That is not just printed on there as a joke, that is on there for a reason. If you bought these substances underage and then got into trouble or had one of the side effects listed above from taking these, what do you think your parents are going to do? They are probably going to sue the manufacturer, sue the seller, and possibly contact their congressmen demanding these substances be banned. You just screwed everyone because you were in a hurry to get some quick muscle. Take into consideration the rest of us before you make your irresponsible purchases.

Please read this over and think about what your goals are a long time before you decide to take your health into jeopardy and risk legal repercussions by using prohormones and steroids as a teenager. You not only endanger yourself, but all of us who want to or may want to use prohormones one day. We all want to have good gains and have pefect bodies, thats why we're here. But rushing into things and abusing susbstances is not the answer. There is absolutely no justification for teenagers to use prohormones or steroids. None. So, before you decide to use them - please take some time out, and make a post describing your training, diet and supplemenation. I know that me and the other members of the board would be more than happy to help you make some changes to your diet and training to help gain naturally, without the use of androgens. Doing this, you will save us all a a lot of grief.

 

[everman]

If you're "thinking" about starting body building then I can safely assume you aren't very big, in which case steroids will mostly hurt you, probably not help at all.

Learn about proper nutrition and supplements like protein, and a good workout routine.

 

[Amused]

Sorry, maybe it's because I'm genetically lucky enough to be able to build significant muscle without steroids, but I oppose their use.

Personally, in my 40 years of life, I have NEVER seen any good come from their use in the long term. Being an old (I'll be 40 in August) muscle head I have a lot of old muscle head acquaintances. Many who used to use steroids. Invariably, the ones who juiced are broken down old men who have destroyed their bodies.

Not only that, but most of the current juicers I know have serious emotional and physical problems. Roid rage is very real and happens without much warning.

I understand the frustration of people who are genetically unable to put on a lot of muscle. BUT, the key to working out is to reach your own potential. Not to beat anyone else.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: Amused
Sorry, maybe it's because I'm genetically lucky enough to be able to build significant muscle without steroids, but I oppose their use.

Personally, in my 40 years of life, I have NEVER seen any good come from their use in the long term. Being an old (I'll be 40 in August) muscle head I have a lot of old muscle head acquaintances. Many who used to use steroids. Invariably, the ones who juiced are broken down old men who have destroyed their bodies.

Not only that, but most of the current juicers I know have serious emotional and physical problems. Roid rage is very real and happens without much warning.

I understand the frustration of people who are genetically unable to put on a lot of muscle. BUT, the key to working out is to reach your own potential. Not to beat anyone else.

Well said. :thumbsup:

 

[platinumike]

Steroids are not necessary. Most poeple end up taking steroids because a routine isnt working anymore and theythink they need an extra boost. You havent even started a routine yet, so you are far from needing steroids. A matter a fact be it that you are a newbie, if you just focused on big compound lifts and ate enough, you'd see gains. Thing is after people are done making their gains on a certain routine they think they need the juice, and thats not the case, they usually just need to take a week or two off, or change the routine

 

[WCRemix]

Just to answer all of those with one post, I am 21. And I am not just starting out body building, but no I do not have too much size. I have been lifting for several years, and I just recently started researching steroids. I guess like Amused said, it is just frustrating eating massive amounts of food, a very clean diet, and lifting religiously, and have reached an end. I cannot get passed my weight, and have been stuck there for a year straight. That is why I was trying to weigh it all out. Most importantly I would like to be healthy, and size would be nice. But if steroids make you broken down as you age, then it doesn't sound like a good option. A lot of users I spoke too, have never had the common side effects that most people talk about though.

 

[WCRemix]

Sorry I wasn't clear earlier...the topic of the other thread just made me "think" of it all...not think of starting a workout routine. I have been working out.
So are you saying I should change up amounts of sets/reps etc...? Rest lengths? Or do I need to find new exercises as well?

 

[tcthetank]

Originally posted by: Aimster
Yeah someone "I know" started steroids and his nipples started to itch. Before he knew it he got puffy nipples and had to get surgery to remove it.

Http://www.bodybuilding.com
Check the forums.

They know which is good they will tell you which anti-estrogen pills to get.

so if you want to risk manboobs, small genitals and going bald for muscle go for it.

Gyno (manboobs) - Nolva

Small genitals - temporary, and can be a non issue with proper use of HCG/nolva/clomid/etc

Bald - Only speeds up the process, wont cause balding

They can be used properly, with very little side effects, but you have to research a couple years

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: WCRemix
Just to answer all of those with one post, I am 21. And I am not just starting out body building, but no I do not have too much size. I have been lifting for several years, and I just recently started researching steroids. I guess like Amused said, it is just frustrating eating massive amounts of food, a very clean diet, and lifting religiously, and have reached an end. I cannot get passed my weight, and have been stuck there for a year straight. That is why I was trying to weigh it all out. Most importantly I would like to be healthy, and size would be nice. But if steroids make you broken down as you age, then it doesn't sound like a good option. A lot of users I spoke too, have never had the common side effects that most people talk about though.

You need to shock your muscles by trying a different workout.

I am not going to tell you not to do steroids since you are 21...but if you want to discuss them (LEGAL steroids or PH's that is) further I would reccomend PMing me over at the bb.com forums as this is not the place to do it.


EDIT: Also if you would like to describe your goals, your workout, and your diet I would be glad to help you modify your program to help you build more muscle the natural way.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: tcthetank

Originally posted by: Aimster
Yeah someone "I know" started steroids and his nipples started to itch. Before he knew it he got puffy nipples and had to get surgery to remove it.

Http://www.bodybuilding.com
Check the forums.

They know which is good they will tell you which anti-estrogen pills to get.

so if you want to risk manboobs, small genitals and going bald for muscle go for it.

Gyno (manboobs) - Nolva

Small genitals - temporary, and can be a non issue with proper use of HCG/nolva/clomid/etc

Bald - Only speeds up the process, wont cause balding

They can be used properly, with very little side effects, but you have to research a couple years

Wrong, please do not listen to this guy.

 

[WCRemix]

These are the things I hear all the time on body-building sites.

 

[SVT Cobra]

Originally posted by: WCRemix
These are the things I hear all the time on body-building sites.

Yes and most of those posters are wanna-be's, ametuers, and guys with absolutely no expereince with AAS's or PH's and are just parroting information.

And, if you are referring to changing your routine etc, it is said for a reason. it works.

 

[Kirby]

Originally posted by: SVT Cobra

2) Impotence. Supplementing with hormones while you are still growing can potentially cause PERMANENT impotence and fertility issues in teenagers. When you add testosterone, estrogen and a wealth of other synthetic androgens to your body it can cause problems with your normal testicular growth and function. Remember, some of these effects are more than just temporary.

That right there should be reason enough. Floppy FTL!!!

 

[WCRemix]

No I was referring to the tanks post...as for goals, I am mainly concerned with building bulk. I am very lean, but wouldn't mind putting on fat, especially if it helped bring the muscle. my workout now is as follows...

Flatbench-(6) 85,125, 165, 215, 220/ 225/ 7
Incline Dumbbell-(10) 50, 55, 60, 65/ *
Dips-(6) b/w, 25, 45, 60/ (8)/ (9) 65x6/ 7
Closegrip-(6) 65, 85, 115, 155, 160/ 165/ 170
Ez-BarTriPushups-(8)35, 45, 55, 65/ 70
Pushdowns-(10)- 30, 35, 40, 45/ * 35, 40, 45, 50, 55

Squats-(6) 85, 135, 185, 225(10)/ 230/ 235/ 240/ 245
Stifflegged-(6) 85, 125,165,195/ 200/ 205
Leg Ex-(8)90,130,160,190/ 195/ 200/ 205
Leg Curl-(8)70,80,90,100/ 110/ 115/ 120
DumbbellShoulderPress-(12) 50,(10) 55, (8) 60, (6) 65/ 65(8)/ 9/10
Front Delt Raise(DoubleDumbbell)(12) 15, (10) 17.5, (8) 20, (8) 25/ 9/ 10
Side Lateral Raise-)(12) 15, (10) 17.5, (8) 20, (8) 25/ (9)/ 10
Reverse PecDec-(10) 60, 75, 90, 100/ 105 70, 85, 100, 115
Calves-

Deadlift OR (6) 135, 225, 315/ 315, 355/ 360/ 365/ 370
Hyper Extensions-(12) 15, 20, 25, 30/ * One day I do these, the other I do deads.
Barbell Row-(6) 65, 85, 115, 155/ 160/ 165
Seated Rows-(12)50, 70, 90, 125/ 130/ 55, 75, 105, 135
Wide Grip Pullup- 4x8
Barbell Curl-(6) 50, 55, 60, 65
Dumbell Curl-(6)20, 25, 30, 35
Seated Hammer Curl-(6) 20, 25, 30, 35
Shrugs Barbell-(6) 185, 205, 225, 245
Dumbbell Shrug-(6) 90, 95, 100, 105
(behind)

Day on, day off... and a typical day for diet is...

breakfast: two whole eggs, 4 egg whites, two packs instant oatmeal
snack: two apples, protein drink
lunch: whole wheat pasta, crystal light, cottage cheese, protein drink
snack (preworkout): 2 protein bars, weight gainer
post-workout: weight gainer, two apples, two packs instant oatmeal
dinner: 4 whole eggs, 8 egg whites, cottage cheese, whole wheat pasta
pre-bed: protein drink

my breakfast is at 2:30 a.m. since I work dang early, so dinner is usually around 3:00 p.m.

 

[WCRemix]

oh and by the way, i am vegetarian, but i think i get enough protein in the day.

 

[RapidSnail]

SVT, where did you get that article? I read it either on BB or WBB some time ago. And what's your UN over there?

 

[SludgeFactory]

Even at 21 I don't think you have any business using them, for the reasons SVT listed. That's still pretty young. You likely still have some natural filling out that'll happen any way, what's the point.

I wouldn't really consider it until you're closer to approaching the limits of your genetic potential, i.e. you've had your diet and training optimized for years and are seeing little or no appreciable gains, and then have some very good reason to be adding supraphysiological amounts of muscle. I could be wrong, but somehow I doubt you're there yet.

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: WCRemix
No I was referring to the tanks post...as for goals, I am mainly concerned with building bulk. I am very lean, but wouldn't mind putting on fat, especially if it helped bring the muscle. my workout now is as follows...

Flatbench-(6) 85,125, 165, 215, 220/ 225/ 7
Incline Dumbbell-(10) 50, 55, 60, 65/ *
Dips-(6) b/w, 25, 45, 60/ (8)/ (9) 65x6/ 7
Closegrip-(6) 65, 85, 115, 155, 160/ 165/ 170
Ez-BarTriPushups-(8)35, 45, 55, 65/ 70
Pushdowns-(10)- 30, 35, 40, 45/ * 35, 40, 45, 50, 55

Squats-(6) 85, 135, 185, 225(10)/ 230/ 235/ 240/ 245
Stifflegged-(6) 85, 125,165,195/ 200/ 205
Leg Ex-(8)90,130,160,190/ 195/ 200/ 205
Leg Curl-(8)70,80,90,100/ 110/ 115/ 120
DumbbellShoulderPress-(12) 50,(10) 55, (8) 60, (6) 65/ 65(8)/ 9/10
Front Delt Raise(DoubleDumbbell)(12) 15, (10) 17.5, (8) 20, (8) 25/ 9/ 10
Side Lateral Raise-)(12) 15, (10) 17.5, (8) 20, (8) 25/ (9)/ 10
Reverse PecDec-(10) 60, 75, 90, 100/ 105 70, 85, 100, 115
Calves-

Deadlift OR (6) 135, 225, 315/ 315, 355/ 360/ 365/ 370
Hyper Extensions-(12) 15, 20, 25, 30/ * One day I do these, the other I do deads.
Barbell Row-(6) 65, 85, 115, 155/ 160/ 165
Seated Rows-(12)50, 70, 90, 125/ 130/ 55, 75, 105, 135
Wide Grip Pullup- 4x8
Barbell Curl-(6) 50, 55, 60, 65
Dumbell Curl-(6)20, 25, 30, 35
Seated Hammer Curl-(6) 20, 25, 30, 35
Shrugs Barbell-(6) 185, 205, 225, 245
Dumbbell Shrug-(6) 90, 95, 100, 105
(behind)

Day on, day off... and a typical day for diet is...

breakfast: two whole eggs, 4 egg whites, two packs instant oatmeal
snack: two apples, protein drink
lunch: whole wheat pasta, crystal light, cottage cheese, protein drink
snack (preworkout): 2 protein bars, weight gainer
post-workout: weight gainer, two apples, two packs instant oatmeal
dinner: 4 whole eggs, 8 egg whites, cottage cheese, whole wheat pasta
pre-bed: protein drink

my breakfast is at 2:30 a.m. since I work dang early, so dinner is usually around 3:00 p.m.

Don't take my opinion over SVT's, Amused's, SpecialK's, or any of the advanced BB/PL/Oly's on here, but it seems as if you could very well be overtraining and have reached a plateau. Believe me, it's a very easy mistake to make, as most of us can be caught in the "more is better" attitude that dominates modern gyms.

The trick with weight training is that more does not equal better. Obviously there will be some people who find the high-volume training works for them, but you don't seem to be one of those people. What you should be trying to do is maximizing your intensity in the gym. This means working for 45-60 minutes tops and putting everything you have into each and every set and rep that you do. Anything over that time frame and you're more likely to inhibit gains due to the secretion of cortisol.

I will say that you do need to reduce the amount of sets and exercises in your workout, but I will not tell you what you "should" do, as it is not in my domain to do so. Instead, I will refer you to this lengthy, multi-page article that will outline key exercises for specific body parts and address the issue of intensity. Use it as a guide to put yourself on the right track and read, read, read to learn more about your body, and always remember that you can only succeed if you persist in pushing yourself to new limits.

 

[WCRemix]

Thanks man, I appreciate the opinion. The more I hear, the more I think it's just a rough patch, and I need to work through it. And I know I'm not to my potential...at least I sure hope not.

 

[WCRemix]

I honestly didn't think overtraining would be a problem for me, since I am a hardgainer. But it sounds reasonable when you talk about the intensity aspect. Thanks for the advice.

 

[RapidSnail]

Originally posted by: WCRemix
Thanks man, I appreciate the opinion. The more I hear, the more I think it's just a rough patch, and I need to work through it. And I know I'm not to my potential...at least I sure hope not.

Don't pay attention to the naysayers how blame anything and everything on "genetics." Although genetics does dictate how far you will be able to physically go, it is far from the suppressive tyrant that it's made out to be. Not everyone will be able to attain the musculature of the pro's whether they take AAS's or not, but I do believe that anybody that sets their mind to a goal can accomplish it through perseverance and hard work.

Originally posted by: WCRemix
I honestly didn't think overtraining would be a problem for me, since I am a hardgainer. But it sounds reasonable when you talk about the intensity aspect. Thanks for the advice.

Overtraining is relative to each individual. Not everyone responds well to volume, and not everyone responds well to HIT. Bodybuilding is all about discovering what works for you, even if it contradicts modern theory. Read, experiment, and read some more, and apply what you read to what you do in the gym and in the kitchen.

I personally don't believe that anyone is a "hardgainer" by the definition of the word. I agree that some people have to do more to gain weight, but I don't believe that that warrants an excuse. Eat more. It's that simple. Your metabolism can and will be beaten no matter how fast it is if you make sure you're eating enough quality food.