Stereo Setup & Blu-ray Audio Issues / SOLVED

[General Kenobi]

Hey, first post for a current issue. If anybody more knowledgeable in the audio hardware or home theater department could help me out with the following, I'd appreciate it.

Background: I've got a pair of M-Audio AV 40 active speakers (or reference monitors) hooked up to my 40" Sony Bravia 2 KDL-40EX600 via the TV's headphone jack using the 3.5mm cable that runs from the AV 40s. My Blu-ray player is a Panasonic DMP-BD45 - it's an entry level model, because I've just migrated to Blu-ray movies this year.

The problem that I've noticed recently is that Blu-ray movies often dedicate the center audio channel to dialogue (works on 5.1/7.1 speaker systems), and thus my Blu-ray player can't really downmix the audio tracks to Stereo (my speaker system) without the result being 100% volume for sound FX (as normal), but only about 50% volume for dialogue. I've been going around the problem by cranking up my TV volume, but I'd like to address it properly now. The best way to solve this would be by buying an amplifier and a center speaker, but I don't think that I can connect the AV 40s into an amp, as they are active speakers with built-in amps of their own...?

Solutions? Mind you, I'm on a budget.

 

[SithSolo1]

I'm not 100% sure but I think you would just connect them to the Front channel analog pre-outs on the receiver, assuming it has them, via RCA cable. Then you would hook up the center to the receiver via speaker wire.

I think the bigger issues are, as you said, doing this on a budget and finding a center channel that will blend well with the speakers. What is the budget?

 

[General Kenobi]

The budget is 300 EUR total, so that does set limitations. Obviously I'm not excluding second-hand gear, but I'd have to know for sure if the receiver/AV 40 connection would actually work. I've also read that connecting active speakers to an amp could actually fry them...?

 

[SithSolo1]

The budget is 300 EUR total, so that does set limitations. Obviously I'm not excluding second-hand gear, but I'd have to know for sure if the receiver/AV 40 connection would actually work. I've also read that connecting active speakers to an amp could actually fry them...?

It just like connecting them to the red and white ports on TV, the pre-outs on the receiver only carry the audio signal, they don't carry power, its how you connect addition amps.

Also looking around at center channels I think a Wharfedale Diamond 9.CC or 9.CS might be a good match. The drivers are roughly the same size and the frequency response range is similar. Again its just guess work since they aren't from the same manufacturer.

I'm not familiar with EUR receiver prices or what is really available over there so I don't have much input on that front. I will say that you definitely want one with analog pre-outs but it doesn't have to be very powerful since you are only powering a center channel.

 

[General Kenobi]

Alright, thanks for the suggestions, and I'll certainly look into those. Any recommendations when it comes to receiver brands in general? I know Panasonic makes good plasma TVs and Blu-ray players, but are they any good at receivers?

 

[SithSolo1]

I would look for used Denon(Best bet for pre-outs), Harman Kardon, Yamaha, Pioneer, and Onkyo. Probably in that order.

Older 5.1 recievers will probably be much cheaper than 7.1s but they will probably lack HDMI in and only decode standard DD and DTS, not the newer DD and DTS-HD though with 3 speakers you probably won't miss any of that. Power output shouldn't be much of a concern.


You may also want to wait for more input than just mine, I try to get info correct but there are more than a few members here that know way more than I.

 

[General Kenobi]

Yeah, I'll hold out on buying anything just yet. Thanks for the feedback, I appreciate it.

 

[General Kenobi]

So, anybody else want to chip in here?

 

[kornphlake]

How does the audio get from your blue-ray player to the television? HDMI should carry multi channel surround, but most televisions downmix to 2 channel stereo to comply with HDCP. If you use the speakers integrated into the television do you get the same effect as connecting the powered monitors to the headphone jack? How about listening though headphones rather than the monitors? Can you dig through the menus on your blue-ray player and specify 2 channel stereo only on the digital output? Does your blue-ray player have RCA pre-outs for 2 channel stereo?

My thinking is that the blue-ray player may be set to send multi channel sound to the television over HDMI, but the television isn't very efficient at downmixxing the multi-channel soundtrack to stereo, it's worth trying to configure the blue-ray player to downmix the soundtrack before sending it to the television, perhaps it has a better processor and will mix the center channel into stereo channels better. I think you should be able to get 2 channel stereo with the hardware you have, this seems like a configuration problem more than a hardware problem.

 

[SithSolo1]

How does the audio get from your blue-ray player to the television? .....snipped for space.....

kornphlake has some really good info here and could possibly save you a lot of money and trouble.

Going over your original post is there any specific reason you are using the Headphone port* on the TV and not just a pair of RCA cables from the Audio Out next to the HDMI ports on the back to RCA inputs on the speakers? I don't know if it makes a difference sound wise but thats how I would have done it from the start.

*(to be honest, I checked the manual and it doesn't even have a headphone port listed. Euro model could differ)

 

[General Kenobi]

The Blu-ray player is hooked up to the TV with an HDMI 1.4 cable. The player's downmix option is definitely set to Stereo. This player has a fairly clean menu system, so there isn't a chance of error there.

The full technical specs from Panasonic can be read here. Also see CNET's BD45 profile. I get the same reduced dialogue volume effect from the TV's internal speakers. Tested with Kingdom of Heaven and The Empire Strikes Back BDs.

The speakers didn't come with spare RCA cables, so I just went with the basic 3.5mm cable since it was included and convenient. I didn't figure it would affect the sound channels in any major way (that I know of.) And yeah, my TV is a Nordic model, so it definitely has a headphone port.

 

[kornphlake]

Try changing the player to bitstream or something other than 2 channel stereo. Perhaps the TV will do a better job at downmixxxing to 2 channel than the player. RCA cables are cheap, I can get them from second hand stores for less than a dollar, it would be worth hooking up your monitors directly to the blue-ray if for no other reason than for diagnostics.

 

[General Kenobi]

Thanks for the reply. I'll do a comparison of PCM vs. Bitstream and see if there's any difference between the TV and player doing the downmixing. As for the RCA cables, I'll probably buy some next week. I just haven't bothered to get them yet, but like you said, it could certainly help with figuring this out before I buy any hardware.

 

[General Kenobi]

Ok, after a night of testing (and receiving complaints for doing so) I've finally got some results to post. Fortunately I don't have a separate subwoofer for this TV speaker setup though. :sneaky:

After testing the TV against the Blu-ray player in downmixing the audio with the original RCA-3.5mm cable, I didn't get any significant results. Neither was doing very well, even though I tested both devices with full downmixing of both Dolby and DTS multi-channel tracks. So I went and got some cheap RCA-RCA cable like suggested, and hooked up the AV 40s to the L/R ports at the back of the TV. I tested the TV's downmixing capabilities again, and got more improvement than without the RCA-RCA cable - it wasn't really that good though, because the TV doesn't downmix very well.

I then proceeded to test the Blu-ray player again - and the effect was tremendously positive. The downmixing capabilities of the player are actually rather impressive when listened to now - apparently the TV couldn't forward the sound properly unless the L/R ports were utilized for that purpose, which was previously impossible with the RCA-3.5mm cable, because it only had one connector for the TV. The Blu-ray dialogue volume is now at its proper level, and I was able to take down the total volume level by 8 units, thus balancing out the volume of the sound FX. I can now watch some movies without startling the neighborhood when the battle scenes roll on.

Total cost of diagnostics and fixing the problem: 5.90€ (2.0 meters of lower (than original) gauge cable, stock)

Thanks for the advice guys, I wouldn't have thought of the cable issue otherwise.