Stephen Hawking and his theory of imaginary time.

[sillymofo]

I'm watching this special on the Science channel with Stephen Hawking, and something quite interesting has me thinking. In this presentation, they talked about Stephen Hawkings theory of imaginary time, that means the universe did not have a begining, or does it have an end. I try to think about it, but then my head hurts, and I still don't see how that's possible. May be because I'm too dense.

Every one now know that black holes are not infinite as once thought, but no one knows if at the end, the black hole comes to a singularity, or it's more like a parabola. It was explained that if the black hole comes to a singularity, then the universe has a begining; else, the theory of imaginary time is possible. That means the universe may just be, and neither had a begining, or was created.

Owwwie.... ok, I'm gonna go back to doing something that I actually understand now.... fragging.

 

[yhelothar]

highly technical?
Read A Brief History in Time. Good Stephen Hawking book explaining the origins of the universe.

 

[Cawchy87]

I would belive that a black hole does come to a parabala shape and not a singularity. If it did come to a singularity then that would be breaking the law of matter not being created or distroyed! There has to be some spec of matter at the bottom of the black hole because if there isn't than what makes such a deep "hole" in the fabric of space time without there being and acctull matter inside?

 

[Gurck]

My head hurts just reading about you reading about this

 

[BigToque]

Someone should fly into a black hole just to test if they'll really be crushed and pulled into oblivian. Maybe they'll come out the other side

 

[dighn]

Originally posted by: Stefan
Someone should fly into a black hole just to test if they'll really be crushed and pulled into oblivian. Maybe they'll come out the other side

they'd be dead long before they even get near it

 

[Cawchy87]

the only possible way would be for a man and wife to go up then have kids and then a mass amount of inbreeding. But that doesn't make up for the lack of food... or mabye MASS inbreeding does. Either way its impossible.

 

[myusername]

Originally posted by: Cawchy87
the only possible way would be for a man and wife to go up then have kids and then a mass amount of inbreeding. But that doesn't make up for the lack of food... or mabye MASS inbreeding does. Either way its impossible.

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: dighn

Originally posted by: Stefan
Someone should fly into a black hole just to test if they'll really be crushed and pulled into oblivian. Maybe they'll come out the other side

they'd be dead long before they even get near it

physics shmisics...

 

[JeffCos]

i'm gonna stop trying to comprehend what you are talking about before my head explodes

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: Cawchy87
I would belive that a black hole does come to a parabala shape and not a singularity. If it did come to a singularity then that would be breaking the law of matter not being created or distroyed! There has to be some spec of matter at the bottom of the black hole because if there isn't than what makes such a deep "hole" in the fabric of space time without there being and acctull matter inside?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/07/21/hawking.blackholes.ap/index.html

 

[ironcrotch]

Originally posted by: myusername

Originally posted by: Cawchy87
the only possible way would be for a man and wife to go up then have kids and then a mass amount of inbreeding. But that doesn't make up for the lack of food... or mabye MASS inbreeding does. Either way its impossible.

What you say?

 

[HeroOfPellinor]

Still reaching for ANY kind of a halfway plausible beginning for evolutionary theory I see. Now scientists are asking you to "just believe". And you people think Christians are sheep. :roll:

 

[Cawchy87]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: Cawchy87
I would belive that a black hole does come to a parabala shape and not a singularity. If it did come to a singularity then that would be breaking the law of matter not being created or distroyed! There has to be some spec of matter at the bottom of the black hole because if there isn't than what makes such a deep "hole" in the fabric of space time without there being and acctull matter inside?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/space/07/21/hawking.blackholes.ap/index.html

That was discussed in the HT fourm a while ago. It is a very interesting turn in astrophysics and hopefully in Mr. Hawkings lifetime he can find more discoveries. I posted this from a short cnn clip i saw.

There was a short segment on this on CNN. The physics corispondent from the Lou Dubbs show explained it like this:

"If you put an apple into a blender and chop it up you get apple sauce. Now if you try to take a bit of that out you are taking out some of the apple, but you have no idea what part of the apple it is. This is much like what happens in a black hole. Matter goes into the black hole, gets "chopped up" and then comes out in very tiny bits called hawking radiation. Advanced mathmatical calculations that Mr. Hawking was able to proform could acctully trace the path that matter takes as it enters and exits a black hole. However, what acctully goes on inside the black hole is still a mystery."

Thats all i could remember, oviously those aren't those exact words, but something close to that. (sorry that i am bad at spelling)

thread:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=50&threadid=1353054&highlight_key=y&keyword1=black

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Still reaching for ANY kind of a halfway plausible beginning for evolutionary theory I see. Now scientists are asking you to "just believe". And you people think Christians are sheep. :roll:

Nobody is asking anyone to "just believe" anything. When these scientists propose ideas they show their work for public scrutiny. If someone finds a flaw, it's back to the drawing board.

The whole point of all of this is to explain the world we live in.

 

[Gurck]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Still reaching for ANY kind of a halfway plausible beginning for evolutionary theory I see. Now scientists are asking you to "just believe". And you people think Christians are sheep. :roll:

How's this relate to evolution theory? Anyway, both sides have their share of sheep, but experiments have shown that under the right conditions, the right materials can form into bits of DNA - conditions & materials believed to have existed on Earth a few billion years back. Experiments have not shown there to have been an Adam and/or Eve. 1 - zip.

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Still reaching for ANY kind of a halfway plausible beginning for evolutionary theory I see. Now scientists are asking you to "just believe". And you people think Christians are sheep. :roll:

Whether god or science there is originally nothing. The universe at the time is nothing. Vacuum fluctuations somehow cause explosion. Matter wins out. We ask questions like this. Nuke ourselves. Universe dies a cold death. Everything decays. We are back to nothing.

 

[Cawchy87]

Personally i belive that God created the universe and the laws that govern it. It is our job to find out how he did it and how the laws influince the universe.

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: Gurck

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Still reaching for ANY kind of a halfway plausible beginning for evolutionary theory I see. Now scientists are asking you to "just believe". And you people think Christians are sheep. :roll:

How's this relate to evolution theory? Anyway, both sides have their share of sheep, but experiments have shown that under the right conditions, the right materials can form into bits of DNA - conditions & materials believed to have existed on Earth a few billion years back. Experiments have not shown there to have been an Adam and/or Eve. 1 - zip.

lol...

well on the flip side, I think much of the bible is not to be taken literally. Adam and Eve is an example of this.

Evolution and God creating the universe are not mutually exclusive.

(and as I do everytime I talk about religion... I am not religious )

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Still reaching for ANY kind of a halfway plausible beginning for evolutionary theory I see. Now scientists are asking you to "just believe". And you people think Christians are sheep. :roll:

Whether god or science there is originally nothing. The universe at the time is nothing. Vacuum fluctuations somehow cause explosion. Matter wins out. We ask questions like this. Nuke ourselves. Universe dies a cold death. Everything decays. We are back to nothing.

I think one of the biggest problems is that humans cannot comprehend "nothing". Our laws of the universe dont allow matter to be created or destroyed, it just has to be there. Our laws don't allow for "the moment before the beginning of time" and the idea of nothingness.

 

[Wahsapa]

read into hinduism :thumbsup:

you'll find answers in both philosophy and science(whats the difference? lol)

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: Stefan

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Still reaching for ANY kind of a halfway plausible beginning for evolutionary theory I see. Now scientists are asking you to "just believe". And you people think Christians are sheep. :roll:

Whether god or science there is originally nothing. The universe at the time is nothing. Vacuum fluctuations somehow cause explosion. Matter wins out. We ask questions like this. Nuke ourselves. Universe dies a cold death. Everything decays. We are back to nothing.

I think one of the biggest problems is that humans cannot comprehend "nothing". Our laws of the universe dont allow matter to be created or destroyed, it just has to be there. Our laws don't allow for "the moment before the beginning of time" and the idea of nothingness.

I think "our laws" may not be the universe's. Protons may decay, vacuums exist, and time is indeed imaginary. Our universe has always existed it just changes forms. Nothing, somethin, nothing......

 

[Tuzzi]

Originally posted by: Stefan
Someone should fly into a black hole just to test if they'll really be crushed and pulled into oblivian. Maybe they'll come out the other side

Maybe we can just strap those Olympic gymnastics judges in spaceship, and just blast them off towards the nearest black hole!

 

[BigToque]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: Stefan

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: HeroOfPellinor
Still reaching for ANY kind of a halfway plausible beginning for evolutionary theory I see. Now scientists are asking you to "just believe". And you people think Christians are sheep. :roll:

Whether god or science there is originally nothing. The universe at the time is nothing. Vacuum fluctuations somehow cause explosion. Matter wins out. We ask questions like this. Nuke ourselves. Universe dies a cold death. Everything decays. We are back to nothing.

I think one of the biggest problems is that humans cannot comprehend "nothing". Our laws of the universe dont allow matter to be created or destroyed, it just has to be there. Our laws don't allow for "the moment before the beginning of time" and the idea of nothingness.

I think "our laws" may not be the universe's. Protons may decay, vacuums exist, and time is indeed imaginary. Our universe has always existed it just changes forms. Nothing, somethin, nothing......

Well, we can only try to find ways to refine our laws, cause that's all we have to work with

Now you have to wonder about that Nothing -> Something -> Nothing idea... If it was really "nothing", then how was something created?

I can imagine it as something like a half full water balloon. If you hold it upright, all the water flows to the bottom. The top now has "nothing". If you flip it over, the top has "something" and the bottom has "nothing". If you applied that to the universe, you could guess that matter may be disappearing (to a place we dont know of), and our universe would have "nothing". That matter still went somewhere though, so in the big picture it isn't really "nothing".

 

[Orsorum]

Originally posted by: Stefan
Someone should fly into a black hole just to test if they'll really be crushed and pulled into oblivian. Maybe they'll come out the other side

... I just read that as "Someone should f@p into a black hole"...

Wow.