Steelership took me for a ride & grab my wallet.

[iGas]

I took my 07 Camry in for the engine check light service under the impression that it is still under warranty (26700 miles), and I was charged $131.85 for diagnostic service at a local Toyota Dealership. The service counter person told me that the work will be under warranty before I made an appointment to have the car service. And, low & behold that I have to pay the $131.85 before they give me back my car key after they had my car for a day.

They told me it is a standard charge for diagnostic and that isn't cover under warranty because the basic warranty have expired. Am I right to assume that check engine (ignition coil) should be cover under drive-train of 5 years/60,000 miles?

And, the sad thing is that they didn't do any work on the car except that they clear the computer and send me on my way after I pay them. However, my car almost stalled twice today when I stopped the car a red lights.

Should I give Toyota Canada a call and find out if the service charge is out of line and if it is covers under drive-train?

 

[Perknose]

Caveat emptor. Accelerated by the downturn in the economy, dealerships have more and more turned to their service centers for profits.

More than ever before, they will probe you and charge you double for it.

 

[Pacfanweb]

No, you're not correct that it should have been covered.

Power train means, engine, transmission, axles. Typically no electronics are considered "Power Train".

Definitely no ignition components.

So the dealership did nothing wrong unless they failed to inform you when you dropped it off that you were liable for a diag charge if the repair wasn't covered.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

FYI AutoZone, etc. will do a free diagnostic and tell you what is wrong.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

I could see how this might happen to someone who doesn't know the difference between steel and steal.

 

[iGas]

No, you're not correct that it should have been covered.

Power train means, engine, transmission, axles. Typically no electronics are considered "Power Train".

Definitely no ignition components.

So the dealership did nothing wrong unless they failed to inform you when you dropped it off that you were liable for a diag charge if the repair wasn't covered.

Correct me if I'm wrong that ignition coil's aren't covered under engine. And, the dealership should have informed me that "engine missed fired" isn't covered under power-train warranty. And, I would buy my own ignition coils and replace them myself if that was the case.

 

[Pacfanweb]

FYI AutoZone, etc. will do a free diagnostic and tell you what is wrong.

No, they'll run a scan and tell you what codes it has. All that does is tell you what page of the shop manual to turn to, to begin your diagnostics.

There is no code that you can get that says "replace xxx sensor".

You can do that....and sometimes it'll even work.

Shops get tons of business from people that have already spent more money at the parts store trying to avoid paying a good mechanic, than mechanic would have charged them to begin with.

 

[Terabyte]

FYI AutoZone, etc. will do a free diagnostic and tell you what is wrong.

Yep go this route.

 

[iGas]

I could see how this might happen to someone who doesn't know the difference between steel and steal.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Correct me if I'm wrong that ignition coil's aren't covered under engine. And, the dealership should have informed me that "engine missed fired" isn't covered under power-train warranty. And, I would buy my own ignition coils and replace them myself if that was the case.

Yes, ignition coils are NOT covered under power train. NOT part of the "engine". They ARE part of the "electronics".

How would you have known that coils were causing the mis-fire? Who was going to diagnose it for you?

How does the service advisor, who most often isn't a mechanic, supposed to tell you what's wrong with your car over the phone, much less know it was the coils?

How do we know you and the advisor's signals didn't get mixed up and that person thought they were telling you that "yes, your car is still covered under the power train warranty"?

Why would you expect a business to tell you how to do their job for free over the phone, so you can keep them from visiting and paying them anything?

 

[iGas]

No, they'll run a scan and tell you what codes it has. All that does is tell you what page of the shop manual to turn to, to begin your diagnostics.

There is no code that you can get that says "replace xxx sensor".

You can do that....and sometimes it'll even work.

Shops get tons of business from people that have already spent more money at the parts store trying to avoid paying a good mechanic, than mechanic would have charged them to begin with.

The ODB II read out at my mechanic shop indicated:

PO354
Ignition Coil D
Primary/Secondary Circuit Malfunction

And, my mechanic told me that he or I can replace the ignition cable ourself, but I should take it to the dealership for service because my car still under warranty (he also ran the VIN to make sure that it is legit).

 

[iGas]

Yes, ignition coils are NOT covered under power train. NOT part of the "engine". They ARE part of the "electronics".

How would you have known that coils were causing the mis-fire? Who was going to diagnose it for you?

How does the service advisor, who most often isn't a mechanic, supposed to tell you what's wrong with your car over the phone, much less know it was the coils?

How do we know you and the advisor's signals didn't get mixed up and that person thought they were telling you that "yes, your car is still covered under the power train warranty"?

Why would you expect a business to tell you how to do their job for free over the phone, so you can keep them from visiting and paying them anything?

Did I hit a sour spot?

Are you one of those peeon that work at a stealership?

 

[Pacfanweb]

The ODB II read out at my mechanic shop indicated:

PO354
Ignition Coil D
Primary/Secondary Circuit Malfunction

And, my mechanic told me that he or I can replace the ignition cable ourself, but I should take it to the dealership for service because my car still under warranty (he also ran the VIN to make sure that it is legit).

So your mechanic was wrong. How is that the dealership's fault? And you said "ignition CABLE" here, and you said the dealership said it was the coil. BIG difference.

So was your "mechanic" wrong not only about the car being under warranty, but what was wrong with it, too?

And I don't think an independent shop can run a VIN and see what warranty a car has.

 

[olds]

Stealership wants $481 to tune up my F150.

Have an appointment at Midas to get the plugs changed for $330. I am scared to let them work on it but I like saving money.
I'll do the air/fuels filters myself.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Did I hit a sour spot?

Are you one of those peeon that work at a stealership?

No, but I get tired of everyone blaming everything on the dealerships, when more often than not, it's the customer's fault and not the dealership's.

Yes, dealerships are more expensive, but their tendency to be "crooked" is much less than independent shops overall.

 

[Pacfanweb]

Stealership wants $481 to tune up my F150.

What engine? It's probably worth it. Look where the plugs are on those beasts. They are a cast iron BITCH.

Not only that, but you'll need a special tool to get the remainder of the plug out when they break, and they WILL break. Very common on those engines.

 

[PottedMeat]

wait so -
1. your car had CEL
2. you went to your mechanic and he just read the code and said it may be covered by toyota
3. you went to toyota and they read the code (same as your mechanic) and cleared it and charged you, but didn't ask beforehand if the code was covered by warranty?

 

[olds]

What engine? It's probably worth it. Look where the plugs are on those beasts. They are a cast iron BITCH.

Not only that, but you'll need a special tool to get the remainder of the plug out when they break, and they WILL break. Very common on those engines.

5.4
I don't want to do it because I don't want to deal with it if I strip any threads. Or deal with 4 and 8.

 

[iGas]

So your mechanic was wrong. How is that the dealership's fault? And you said "ignition CABLE" here, and you said the dealership said it was the coil. BIG difference.

So was your "mechanic" wrong not only about the car being under warranty, but what was wrong with it, too?

And I don't think an independent shop can run a VIN and see what warranty a car has.

Did you read my first post?
It stated that it was the ignition coil that failed!

And, funny that you mention how it is not a warranty issue, but my call to the dealership today and they made a service appointment for my car for this Friday at no charge, and they will replace the ignition coils & coil pack for free of charge since it is under warranty (I'm going to get it in writing this time). Another thing is that I want them to reverse the service charge and credit me for misdiagnose for the last service.

 

[Pacfanweb]

5.4
I don't want to do it because I don't want to deal with it if I strip any threads. Or deal with 4 and 8.

The are m-f'ers. Try it yourself and you'll wish you paid the 'ship to do it. Seriously.

They have a special tool to get the bottom part of the plug out, because they always break.

And the plugs are not easy to do even if the all come out.

What happens is, the plug electrode sticks out so far, but the actual threads are back up inside the tube. So it has to be long to reach the combustion chamber.

So what happens over time is, the space in the tube between the electrode and the wall of the tube gets plugged up with carbon....effectively epoxy-ing the plug in there. And the top half of the plug breaks off, leaving the electrode and bottom part. That's where the tool comes in.

Best case scenario: Tool works, plugs get replaced.

Worst case: Head has to come off.

 

[iGas]

wait so -
1. your car had CEL
2. you went to your mechanic and he just read the code and said it may be covered by toyota
3. you went to toyota and they read the code (same as your mechanic) and cleared it and charged you, but didn't ask beforehand if the code was covered by warranty?

I asked if the code is covered by warranty, and the dealership service desk personnel told me that my car is under warranty. That service desk person went home for the day when I came to picked up the car.

I called her today (and found out that she is also the manager) and she told me to take the car in and they will replace the coils & coil pack free of charge. I want my $131 back because I feels that they took me for a ride. They missed diagnose my car and was too embarrassed to charged Toyota for it hence they passed the charge to me the customer.

 

[Pacfanweb]

I asked if the code is covered by warranty, and the dealership service desk personnel told me that my car is under warranty. That service desk person went home for the day when I came to picked up the car.

I called her today (and found out that she is also the manager) and she told me to take the car in and they will replace the coils & coil pack free of charge. I want my $131 back because I feels that they took me for a ride. They missed diagnose my car and was too embarrassed to charged Toyota for it hence they passed the charge to me the customer.

You didn't tell the whole story, and you're continuing to add details.

Let's go through this once more:

I said that electronics are TYPICALLY NOT COVERED IN POWER TRAIN WARRANTIES. Ignition components are definitely "electronics".

NOW you tell us that you told them what code it had. You did not in the first post.

WHOEVER answered the phone, if they really told you that, told you wrong. Likely, the only reason you're going to get it covered now is they are going to give you an AWA (After Warranty Adjustment), meaning they'll get Toyota to extend coverage on this component for you.
OR, they're just going to eat it.

Either way, good for you, but the bottom line is: NO, this should not and probably is not being covered by you Power Train warranty. Which was your original question.

So, unless Toyota's definition of "Powertrain" is different than every other manufacturer's, and I don't think it is, then several thoughts come to mind:

One, your mechanic is a dumbass for thinking it'd be covered.

Two, so is whoever told you it was at the dealership.

Three, you should be glad they were dumbasses.....now, because someone at the dealer screwed up, you are getting coverage for something that isn't covered, for customer satisfaction reasons....so you should be thanking this dealership, and telling everyone how they did right by you in the end.

Edit: Four, I'm also partially a dumbass for not catching the mileage on your car, at 27k....if it's been less than 3 years since your car was put in service (still a possibility at this point), then the coil should be covered. But most 07's are over the 3 year limit at this point, and you were asking about the Powertrain warranty, not the base warranty, and they are not covered under Powertrain, but certainly are under the base.

 

[iGas]

You didn't tell the whole story, and you're continuing to add details.

Let's go through this once more:

I said that electronics are TYPICALLY NOT COVERED IN POWER TRAIN WARRANTIES. Ignition components are definitely "electronics".

NOW you tell us that you told them what code it had. You did not in the first post.

WHOEVER answered the phone, if they really told you that, told you wrong. Likely, the only reason you're going to get it covered now is they are going to give you an AWA (After Warranty Adjustment), meaning they'll get Toyota to extend coverage on this component for you.
OR, they're just going to eat it.

Either way, good for you, but the bottom line is: NO, this should not and probably is not being covered by you Power Train warranty. Which was your original question.

So, unless Toyota's definition of "Powertrain" is different than every other manufacturer's, and I don't think it is, then several thoughts come to mind:

One, your mechanic is a dumbass for thinking it'd be covered.

Two, so is whoever told you it was at the dealership.

Three, you should be glad they were dumbasses.....now, because someone at the dealer screwed up, you are getting coverage for something that isn't covered, for customer satisfaction reasons....so you should be thanking this dealership, and telling everyone how they did right by you in the end.

Wow!

Thanks for clearing that up for me. It sounded like you works for Toyota Canada as the Warranty Rep.

I found the bill from the dealership and it stated:

CAUSE:
SCANED FOR CODES P0300 P0301 P0302 P0303 P0305
P0306 MULTIPLE MISFIRE CODES
P0354 IGNITION COILD 4 PRIMARY/SECONDARY CIRCUT

CORRECTION:
CLEARED CODES SWAPED COILS #4 #6 AND ROAD TESTED TO SEE IF MISFIRE CHANGED CYLINDERS FUALT VERRY INTERMITANT RECOMEND RETURN TO CUSTOMER AND IF CHECK ENGINE LIGNT COMES ON AGAIN RESCAN FOR CODES

It could be that my mechanic is a dumb ass, as his shop is the primary repair shop for the local police cars as well as taxis (PS. many of the taxis in this town are Camry).

 

[Pacfanweb]

Wow!

Thanks for clearing that up for me. It sounded like you works for Toyota Canada as the Warranty Rep.

I found the bill from the dealership and it stated:



It could be that my mechanic is a dumb ass, as his shop is the primary repair shop for the local police cars as well as taxis (PS. many of the taxis in this town are Camry).

Could well be, since you said he told you it was an ignition cable, and now you say the problem is actually the coil.

Sounds like the dealership tried a coil but your problem is intermittent (hardest ones to fix).

So they cleared the codes, and said to return if the problem persisted. And then had the gall to want to get paid for the time they apparently spent trying to find the problem.

And no, I've never worked for Toyota, but pretty much a dealership is a dealership. Warranties and diagnostics and such all work the same way, with only minor differences.

Edit: Oh, and your car must not be under the base warranty (3/36) if they charged a diag fee. Typically, the manufacturer covers diags, even for NPF's or CND's. (No Problem Found and Could Not Duplicate)

I believe, based on your ever-changing-and-updating info, that the 'ship is either eating the parts, or is getting you an AWA for your troubles and for them telling you something was covered.

 

[iGas]

Could well be, since you said he told you it was an ignition cable, and now you say the problem is actually the coil.

Sounds like the dealership tried a coil but your problem is intermittent (hardest ones to fix).

So they cleared the codes, and said to return if the problem persisted. And then had the gall to want to get paid for the time they apparently spent trying to find the problem.

And no, I've never worked for Toyota, but pretty much a dealership is a dealership. Warranties and diagnostics and such all work the same way, with only minor differences.

Did you read the first post as pointed out by another post of mine that I stated that is the (ignition coil)?