Steam page shows 3 announcements coming

[irishScott]

It's mind boggling and frustrating from a PC gamer that's seen our industry given the death sentence over and over again and surviving it all then seeing what seems like the light at the tunnel tarnished by the business needs of these companies over and over again.

I think we've already acknowledged that this is being done for Valve's business interests.

Once again, how has this "tarnished" anything? Hell if the steam box works as intended it might very well bring more people to PC gaming; if it doesn't work we're right back where we left off.

And of course this is being done for Valve's business interests. That's capitalism. And PC gaming is not and never has been in any danger of "dying" IMO. There will always be a need to push the performance envelope, and that certainly wasn't happening on consoles.

 

[flexy]

Replacing Windows with a better, faster and optimized OS (Gaming Linux Distribution) is not their goal.

It took me several minutes to realize that "LIVING ROOM" is their term for CONSOLE. Because this is where console players game, in the "living room" as opposed to ""on a computer".

What Valve wants is to cater to those "living room" players since they realized the PC gaming market is dwindling. Whether SteamOS will really benefit us PC gamers remains to be seen.

From a certain point of view, it may even be the exact opposite, an entire abandoning of PC Gaming by transforming all existing Steam games into "pseudo console games" that are appealing to "living room players". But...how on Earth is that benefiting me? How is that benefiting PC gaming?

 

[Dankk]

Replacing Windows with a better, faster and optimized OS (Gaming Linux Distribution) is not their goal.

It took me several minutes to realize that "LIVING ROOM" is their term for CONSOLE. Because this is where console players game, in the "living room" as opposed to ""on a computer".

What Valve wants is to cater to those "living room" players since they realized the PC gaming market is dwindling. Whether SteamOS will really benefit us PC gamers remains to be seen.

From a certain point of view, it may even be the exact opposite, an entire abandoning of PC Gaming by transforming all existing Steam games into "pseudo console games" that are appealing to "living room players". But...how on Earth is that benefiting me? How is that benefiting PC gaming?

Source? Last time I checked, companies like Steam are single-handedly responsible for PC games exploding in popularity.

 

[destrekor]

Why would you have to do ANY of that? My desktop is duplicated to my living room TV via a permanently installed HDMI cable.

There is no reason to unhook it just because I'm not actively using it. If I want to play on my TV, I just switch to the HDMI input the PC is duplicating to.


After reading some of the explanations, I can see how a hardware streaming solution could make things easier for long distances (controllers certainly being an issue).

Correct that there would still be in issue:
my PC is not in the same room. It's not too far that an HDMI cable wouldn't work - but it's far beyond USB extension limits without signal degradation, and wireless just isn't feasible, if even possible.

Utilizing the gigabit network I have for streaming the video, audio, and controller data, however, is something I wouldn't mind doing.

I might be an idiot for not knowing of a way to currently achieve that, in an affordable manner mind you, but I haven't stumbled upon anything of that nature. Thus, I would absolutely LOVE to see that ability from Valve, if it is possible and feasible in my current setup.
If I have to have another device - ugh. If I can stream utilizing the Steam software on the two PC's that are located at the two opposite points of this link: epic.

 

[BD2003]

I have no issues with my 75ft HDMI and USB runs. What is a real PITA, is having to deal with windows to launch the games. I still need a mouse/kb by my side just to configure something or even just launch the majority of games.

 

[destrekor]

On a PC with an SSD, you could swap OSes in 10 seconds or so. All they'd need to do to convince people those ten seconds are worth it is to show the same game running faster on SteamOS than Windows.

If this has an immense benefit on my gaming rig, I'll absolutely do it.

I've dual-booted before, and for a short spell, really only stuck to Windows for gaming and media usage I couldn't get on Linux.
But then I just kind of got frustrated with Linux and grew rather fond of Windows 8, oddly enough.


That said, give me an OS that supports my gaming configuration requirements (triple monitor, sometimes spanned in games, sometimes not, with SLI GPU), AND the same games I already play with at least an equally-optimized experience (rendering (directx), the code, the efficiency of drivers, etc), all with less OS overhead (which would increase the software/hardware performance ratio and benefit visuals and input), and I'll put up with rebooting and launching into different OSes for different purposes.

I typically reboot before playing games anyway, just to ensure drivers are freshly loaded and resources immediately available and free. It matters when playing triple-monitor resolutions and trying your hardest to include as much image detail as possible while permitting multiplayer-ready framerates, on SLI 560 Ti 2GB cards. :\

 

[destrekor]

I have no issues with my 75ft HDMI and USB runs. What is a real PITA, is having to deal with windows to launch the games. I still need a mouse/kb by my side just to configure something or even just launch the majority of games.

That too.

 

[Staples]

This will help compatibility problems in games made for Linux because there is so much fragmentation. That is really imperative for the sake of the platform.

But most users are just fine with Windows.

All the Linux nerds act like Linux is so great because it is free but I as well as most people can afford Windows.

 

[BD2003]

This will help compatibility problems in games made for Linux because there is so much fragmentation. That is really imperative for the sake of the platform.

But most users are just fine with Windows.

All the Linux nerds act like Linux is so great because it is free but I as well as most people can afford Windows.

I can afford Windows, but I don't particularly like it. The fact that it's the only customizable gaming platform out there is the sole reason I continue to use it. The vast majority of my time spent on my home PC is either in a game or in a browser, any OS can handle that. If I could use chrome in SteamOS, I'd pretty much be set.

 

[Aikouka]

I have no issues with my 75ft HDMI and USB runs. What is a real PITA, is having to deal with windows to launch the games. I still need a mouse/kb by my side just to configure something or even just launch the majority of games.

Run a 75ft USB cable along with the 75ft HDMI cable that connects to a USB wireless transmitter that comes to a keyboard/mouse combo?

My HTPC uses a Logitech G700 and some random Logitech wireless keyboard.

 

[irishScott]

This will help compatibility problems in games made for Linux because there is so much fragmentation. That is really imperative for the sake of the platform.

But most users are just fine with Windows.

All the Linux nerds act like Linux is so great because it is free but I as well as most people can afford Windows.

It's also so great due to the customization options, although most of that that admittedly takes more effort and technical knowledge than your average user is willing to expend. I can work measurably faster in my linux partition simply due to slimming things down. But linux is also typically safer (at least if you're using a broadly supported distro) and more stable than Windows in my experience.

Not that your average user cares. Your average person puts up with a shitty-ass computer because they don't know any better or desire to know any better. It's kinda freaky. I'm by far the most computer-inclined person in my family, and my $400 Lenovo runs more smoothly than their $1500 superior-specced laptops. It gets especially hilarious when they borrow my laptop and think I just bought a new one (it's well over a year old at this point). *sigh* People.

 

[tential]

Like I said before, steam Os is so let being released to aid valve in making the steam box a reality. By having steamos be free you lower the price of the steam box by 100 dollars.
Just ask MS how much having a great 100 price premium over your competitor effects business. Sony/ps4 adopters have been crying non stop about that 500 price point.

 

[BD2003]

Run a 75ft USB cable along with the 75ft HDMI cable that connects to a USB wireless transmitter that comes to a keyboard/mouse combo?

My HTPC uses a Logitech G700 and some random Logitech wireless keyboard.

I basically run the USB to a powered hub, connected to the hub is the xbox controller transmitter and the transmitter for a handheld keyboard with a little touchpad. I try to solely use a controller and big picture as often as I can, but it fails the vast majority of the time. If it's not origin or uplay getting in the way, it's some launcher popup, or in-game options that need to be configured using a mouse.

Most of the time I just end up launching a game from the windows desktop. If they truly succeed in making a completely controller-centric OS and force games to adhere to it, it will instantly become my favorite couch gaming platform.

That'll take years to come to fruition. Until then windows is a necessity, and I have other TVs I'd like to game on. What I really want from them in one of their next two announcements is a real solution for wireless streaming, independent of the GPU and host OS. Ideally it involves two cheap HDMI/USB dongles, similar to the chromecast ($35). The one hooked up to your TV is nothing more than a dumb video decoder and controller receiver, powered by a USB port or MHL. The one hooked up to your computer has HDMI passthrough, so you can keep the PC hooked up to your monitor, and it just directly encodes and sends out the video stream to the other dongle, while the USB hookup handles relaying the controller input. Simple, cheap and effective.

 

[irishScott]

Like I said before, steam Os is so let being released to aid valve in making the steam box a reality. By having steamos be free you lower the price of the steam box by 100 dollars.
Just ask MS how much having a great 100 price premium over your competitor effects business. Sony/ps4 adopters have been crying non stop about that 500 price point.

Yep, Wednesday is going to be interesting. Looking at the "clue" images on the steam page, the first image was a circle, representing SteamOS. The next one is the same circle inside two brackets, which likely represents a box running SteamOS.

The 3rd one has 2 SteamOs-es added together, now that's REALLY interesting. Some kind of local grid computing maybe? Or maybe even streaming games over the internet from one box to another?

 

[Skel]

Like I said before, steam Os is so let being released to aid valve in making the steam box a reality. By having steamos be free you lower the price of the steam box by 100 dollars.
Just ask MS how much having a great 100 price premium over your competitor effects business. Sony/ps4 adopters have been crying non stop about that 500 price point.

Steam being "free" doesn't really mean anywhere near as much of an impact as you're making it sound. Linux has been free for years and it's still not taking the desktop like some people want it to. The HW manufacture who are using the OS are the one's that'll determine the price point. Even with the cost to them being free don't be surprised if they still charge you for it, as someone has to support it if it's a retail product.

 

[blackened23]

Like I said before, steam Os is so let being released to aid valve in making the steam box a reality. By having steamos be free you lower the price of the steam box by 100 dollars.
Just ask MS how much having a great 100 price premium over your competitor effects business. Sony/ps4 adopters have been crying non stop about that 500 price point.

I don't agree. The cost of the windows license is negotiable these days (tablets with Bay Trail get it at a minor cost) and in the overall big picture - the OS cost is minor in comparison to the cost of quality hardware. There is really no way around this; the hardware in any PC type box costs a lot of money. So much so that making a quality game capable PC box makes any OS license negligible.

Does the Windows license make a difference? In a 300$ Bay Trail tablet, sure why not. But when you're looking at the 1500$+ in BOM for a quality PC gaming experience, nobody really cares about adding 50$ on to that for a Windows license. The OS is probably the smallest cost factor involved, IMHO.

Basically, Steam OS exists for monetary reasons - if they essentially lock an audience into steam os they will ensure that they monopolize PC digital distribution. This will be a tough sell, though, because they have to convince developers. I don't imagine that will happen aside from a few indie titles because the great majority of PC gamers are using Windows 7 and 8 and do not have a compelling reason to switch.

 

[VulgarDisplay]

That's where the hl3 steam os exclusive comes in.

 

[Blitzvogel]

That's where the hl3 steam os exclusive comes in.

Possible, but I think Valve would be more likely to make it "Steam Exclusive" as opposed to just "SteamOS Exclusive". SteamOS may take off, but Valve likely wants to make sure it has a permanent place in all PC computers using Windows, OSX, or Linux. They are not going to just abandon them. By going with a dedicated OS, Steam can very much control the user experience and make SteamOS systems easy to use like a console, but with the power and upgradeability of a PC. Pretty cool for those who are not too keen on using a general PC with Windows style interface with a TV or living room entertainment suite. That's fine with me. Options are good.

 

[chadashcroft22]

The more I think about this steam box the more I see it failing miserably. First problem is it is rumored to have a tegra 4 chip in it which will make the box at the very least 200 dollars and more than likely closer to 300-400 dollars. Second you will most likely be using wifi to transfer the encode from the pc so you have a good amount of latency there and then add in huge latency you get when it goes into the tv to display the image. Third it's locked down to just steam obviously so no bf4 or old school game support. Fourth most people that have wanted to game have already hooked up their pc or an htpc to their tv for gaming. And if they even try to bring out a major game title and lock it down to just the steam box it will backfire badly in their face.

So it is way to high priced most likely
Huge latency from wireless and tv
Locked down to just steam
And most people have already done this via hdmi from computer or an htpc for living room.
And a high profile game launch that is exclusive to the box will backfire due to just poor sales alone.

 

[irishScott]

The more I think about this steam box the more I see it failing miserably. First problem is it is rumored to have a tegra 4 chip in it which will make the box at the very least 200 dollars and more than likely closer to 300-400 dollars. Second you will most likely be using wifi to transfer the encode from the pc so you have a good amount of latency there and then add in huge latency you get when it goes into the tv to display the image. Third it's locked down to just steam obviously so no bf4 or old school game support. Fourth most people that have wanted to game have already hooked up their pc or an htpc to their tv for gaming. And if they even try to bring out a major game title and lock it down to just the steam box it will backfire badly in their face.

So it is way to high priced most likely
Huge latency from wireless and tv
Locked down to just steam
And most people have already done this via hdmi from computer or an htpc for living room.
And a high profile game launch that is exclusive to the box will backfire due to just poor sales alone.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/6/3958162/valve-steam-box-cake

1. Gabe himself has already said he wants 3 tiers of Steam Box hardware, "good, better and best." Also remember it is simply a standard. How companies implement the standard will greatly affect the cost.

2. Not any more.
http://www.themortonreport.com/home-away/gadgets/gadget-review-amimons-whdi-stick/

That article is from 2011, and concerning wireless HDMI it states "Video quality was only negligibly lower than that achieved via a wired connection and showed no perceptible lag, stuttering or pixilation."

So if it was working in 2011, I imagine it's come up another notch or two in the last couple of years. Remains to be seen if it can be competitive with twitch shooters, but I don't think the problem's as insurmountable as you make it out.

3. Given that you can already launch most outside games through steam, would make sense to extend similar support to the linux version.

4. Perhaps, but this isn't for those people. Plenty of people out there who would want to play their PC like a console but haven't invested for whatever reason.

5. At this point an exclusive would backfire, and I'm pretty sure that's not on the agenda (unless Gabe has gone completely nuts).





Above all, assuming this takes off it could bring PC gaming to the console gaming masses. That would be awesome.

 

[chadashcroft22]

2. Not any more.
http://www.themortonreport.com/home-away/gadgets/gadget-review-amimons-whdi-stick/

That article is from 2011, and concerning wireless HDMI it states "Video quality was only negligibly lower than that achieved via a wired connection and showed no perceptible lag, stuttering or pixilation."

So if it was working in 2011, I imagine it's come up another notch or two in the last couple of years. Remains to be seen if it can be competitive with twitch shooters, but I don't think the problem's as insurmountable as you make it out.

I don't think it is so much just the wireless that will add a lot of latency as the nvidia shield works fine. Just think about the chain of commands to make this work (Numbers are guestimated).

From pc it will stream to box and lets just say have 100ms of latency. Then from the box to the tv can be 1000s of ms of latency depending on tv model. Then from there you react on your wireless control to jump and this has probably another 50-100ms of latency. Then the box has to send this input back up to the pc to start this whole chain of events over.

When you add television latency which is already a problem on most tvs and add latency of a control and a wireless stream it will not be a pleasant experience no matter how much valve has optimized it. Just remember nvidia had to put a special decoder in the chip of there high end gpus just to get the latency low enough for the encode part. And they have the benefit on the display being built directly into the controller to solve two latency issues alone.

The only close thing I can compare this to would be trying to do a first person shooter on a satellite internet connection. I think they would have a better chance of releasing an actual console and trying to go head to head with the big guys because once reviewers get a hold of this they will tear valve a new one.

 

[styrafoam]

If all this amounts to is a way to stream games you play with a controller to your TV then its a dud. If their vision is to have some sort smartphone gaming marketplace with IOS and android games being ported in and sold so as to be played on your television then D.G.A.F. Having said that i still have hope that it will amount to more someday, mainly because of:

I think we've already acknowledged that this is being done for Valve's business interests.

Its agreed that Valve stands the most to gain in a business sense, but from a gaming standpoint who else is going to make any sort of unifying effort? Valve's business interest is games, Microsoft is their share holders. Microsoft has been so erratic over the last few years, the only thing one could say with any certainty is that PC gaming is very far down their list of priorities. They make no money from it because they ignored it to focus on xbox, while valve was proactive and pushed the market in new directions. If we woke up tomorrow and the gaming news headline was "Direct X 11.2 will be the final version for window's PCs, DX developments will now move to the XBox One devkit" tons of people would be pissed, but it wouldn't be much of a shock.

 

[showb1z]

I don't get the message Valve is spreading. They want all pc-gamers to start gaming from their couch with controllers? Wouldn't we just get a console then?
What does it mean when the so-called saviors of pc gaming want us all to be pseudo-console gamers? Maybe that's an exaggeration, but still, I don't care for the direction they're going.

 

[cmdrdredd]

I don't get the message Valve is spreading. They want all pc-gamers to start gaming from their couch with controllers? Wouldn't we just get a console then?
What does it mean when the so-called saviors of pc gaming want us all to be pseudo-console gamers? Maybe that's an exaggeration, but still, I don't care for the direction they're going.

It is dollar signs for valve. Nothing more. Gabe has some beef with MS and this is his way to give them the finger. Meanwhile windows gets better driver support and has more games available so he isnt really going to change anything. I can already plug in my PC to my TV with a $4 HDMI cable.

The other thing is... PlayStation and Xbox brands are too big. They have developer relations outside indie games too, they own major studios etc. Any hardware valve can come up with won't be any threat because developers will still make PlayStation and Xbox games first and windows gaming will be treated as it has been. Devs may say "why dedicate to Linux based steamos when there are millions of windows users right now that use steam normally on their PC?" Not to mention people are saying the steam box would run tegra...underpowered.

 

[Lonyo]

http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/6/3958162/valve-steam-box-cake

1. Gabe himself has already said he wants 3 tiers of Steam Box hardware, "good, better and best." Also remember it is simply a standard. How companies implement the standard will greatly affect the cost.



Above all, assuming this takes off it could bring PC gaming to the console gaming masses. That would be awesome.

Except by having tiers of products, with the lowest one almost certain to be more expensive than a console (if it's an actual gaming system, rather than one which simply streams from your main PC) then you're already having issues.
Developers are going to do what they already do and games won't be optimised, which means consoles will enjoy a price/performance advantage and unless you spend a lot you won't really get a great experience.
People already have tablets, so they don't really need a full computer hooked up to their TV.
Their console can also access streaming movies/music etc, so they don't need SteamOS for that.

The idea of a dedicated PC hooked up to your TV for gaming made more sense 2 or 3 years ago than it does now, given that a console+tablet combination is probably both more powerful, and more typical of what consumers would go for.
It's a product which has arrived too late to market.