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States question electronic vote machines

BoomerD

No Lifer
DENVER - With the presidential race in full swing, Colorado and other states have found critical flaws in the accuracy and security of their electronic voting machines, forcing officials to scramble to return to the paper ballots they abandoned after the Florida debacle of 2000.

In December alone, top election officials in Ohio and Colorado declared that widely used voting equipment is unfit for elections.

"Every system that is out there, one state or another has found that they are no good," said John Gideon of the advocacy group Voters Unite. "Everybody is starting to look at this now and starting to realize that there is something wrong."

The swing states of California, Ohio and Florida have found that security on touch-screen voting machines is inadequate. Testers have been able to disable the systems and even change vote totals.

Florida's "hanging chads" in the disputed 2000 Al Gore-George W. Bush election exposed the imperfection of paper ballot counting and helped lead to a $3 billion government initiative to bring voting into the digital age. The Help America Vote Act of 2002 effectively required that states have electronic equipment in place by 2010.

There are no documented cases of actual election tampering involving electronic voting machines.

But in tests, researchers in Ohio and Colorado found that electronic voting systems could be corrupted with magnets or with Treos and other similar handheld devices.

In Colorado, two kinds of Sequoia Voting Systems electronic voting machines used in Denver and three other counties were decertified because of security weaknesses, including a lack of password protection. Equipment made by Election Systems and Software had programming errors. And optical scanning machines, made by Hart InterCivic, had an error rate of one out of every 100 votes during tests by the state.

"I was surprised," Colorado Secretary of State Mike Coffman said Friday of the failures his office found. "It's an awful position to be put in, but I feel strongly it's important that this equipment be secure and accurately count a vote."

Now some states are turning back to paper ? in some cases, just weeks before primary elections.

California, Ohio and Florida have chosen to use scanning machines that count paper ballots electronically.

In Colorado, which has spent $41 million in federal grants on electronic systems, many of the state's nearly 3 million registered voters ? and the county officials who conduct the voting ? don't know what their elections will look like in 2008.

Coffman and Colorado's clerks and recorders are in a dispute over whether to use mail-in ballots or cast paper ballots at polling places.

All fear time is running out.

"We look at each other and go, 'We have used this equipment in three elections. Why did it get taken to a test board and get decertified?'" said Debbie Green, who heads the Colorado County Clerks Association and is the clerk and recorder of rural Park County. "There are some counties having elections in January and February and they don't have any election equipment."

Vendors of the electronic voting machines warn against a rush back to paper.

It can take two years to put a voting system in place, and overhauling a system just weeks before some states hold presidential primaries will invite a new round of problems, they say.

"To throw the baby out with the bath water is certainly shortsighted," said David Beirne, executive director of the Election Technology Council, which represents manufacturers of 90 percent of electronic systems used in the country.

States have their own certification standards, complicating things for manufacturers. "From an industry standpoint, trying to design a voting system when you don't know how it's being judged is causing a lot of problems," Beirne said.

And having a paper ballot does not guarantee security.

"If you look at the history of election fraud, you are really talking about paper," said Merle King, executive director of the Center for Election Systems at Kennesaw State University in Georgia.




HOw long will it take to get election equipment that actually WORKS? The possibility of manipulating the results makes much of the electronic voting equipment unacceptable. WHY have some states elected to forgo equipment that prints a paper trail to verify voting results?
Surprisingly, I don't even see Diebold listed in this report, although I suppose any of those companies COULD be subsidiaries...
Voter fraud in one way or another has been around probably as long as there has been voting, and paper is not a guarantee against it...(how many ballot boxes have disappeared over the years?) "We the People" need to stand up and fight corruption wherever it shows its ugly head. It seems like "We the Corporations" are still trying to skew the election counts to give the results THEY want, not what is actually voted.
 
Such is the results where the lower bidder delivers and the technilogical knowledge to verify the product either does not exist or is swept aside by politics
 
I say we go back to paper and pen! (We still do it that way in my little town).
But then the weak link becomes the designated counters as far as accuracy and honesty.
 
We had election machines that worked, but that was thrown out the window when the democrats shopped for election fraud in Florida, and now we're left with something worse. We should move to optical, ie scantron, ballots, and anybody too fucking retarded to use them shouldnt be voting anyways.
 
Originally posted by: Mxylplyx
We had election machines that worked, but that was thrown out the window when the democrats shopped for election fraud in Florida, and now we're left with something worse. We should move to optical, ie scantron, ballots, and anybody too fucking retarded to use them shouldnt be voting anyways.

Yeah, what the hell was wrong with scantron. It's good enough for the SAT.

You could print them on-demand for those volatile elections. All you need is a pencil. Audited? No problem, just haul them out of storage.

And people that say 'i dont know how to fill in the circle' should be tossed in a industrial blend-tec blender and used as fertilizer.

 
i heard coffman get interviewed the day he decertifyed the machines. he was getting the run around by all 3 makers of the machines. He finally had enough and just yanked them. I cant blame him but it does piss me off that in 2008 that this is even a fricken question.
 
Yeah! I'll trust my credit card info, tax filings, corporate records, banking and ATM and every other important piece of information I have to a computer, but vote on one? God Forbid!
 
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Yeah! I'll trust my credit card info, tax filings, corporate records, banking and ATM and every other important piece of information I have to a computer, but vote on one? God Forbid!

Well, you make a good point...sort of...look at how often personal information has been compromised over the past couple of years by lax computer security or outright fraud.

I have no problem with using computers to cast my vote. I just want fraud-free results. Is that asking too much?
 
Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by: sirjonk
Yeah! I'll trust my credit card info, tax filings, corporate records, banking and ATM and every other important piece of information I have to a computer, but vote on one? God Forbid!

Well, you make a good point...sort of...look at how often personal information has been compromised over the past couple of years by lax computer security or outright fraud.

I have no problem with using computers to cast my vote. I just want fraud-free results. Is that asking too much?

Yes computers get compromised, and banks in the wild west got robbed. Nothing is perfect. If by fraud free you mean 100% perfect, then yeah, it's probably asking too much. We didn't have that with paper ballots either. Baby, bathwater...
 
So are you comfortable knowing your vote could be stolen or given to someone you didn't vote for? Perfection isn't achievable in anything, but that doesn't mean it's not worth striving for. Just knowing that the software for these machines can be easily hacked makes me concerned. Shouldn't we all be concerned when our voting process can be so easily compromised?
 
The good news is, once the democrats regain control of the house and senate, they'll pass election reform legislation.

Oh crap, it's 2008, isn't it!?
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
The good news is, once the democrats regain control of the house and senate, they'll pass election reform legislation.

Oh crap, it's 2008, isn't it!?

Here we go again...the slight majority does not equal control...except in the minds of those on the right who want to slam the Democrats time and again. IF the dems could indeed pass meaningful election reform, it'd probably be veto'd by GWB, the man put in office by voter fraud/election manipulation in the first place...
 
Heh- mighty quick to blame the Dems, Mxylplyx.

And Sirjonk has a point, if completely erroneous. Diebold makes most of the computer banking stuff in the world, so they know what real security looks like and what's required... but didn't use that knowledge wrt voting machines... nor have their competitors.

Insecurity in voting machines isn't an "accident"- it's negligent or willful by design- take your pick...

Scantrons aren't terribly secure, either... there's little reason for anybody to manipulate them wrt the SAT, another scenario entirely when it comes to elections... at least a paper trail is part of the process, reducing the probability of fraud...

I have no problem with hand counted paper ballots, or with the Oregonian system of vote by mail... yeh, the results aren't instantaneous, but that's not really important, is it?
 
Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by: alchemize
The good news is, once the democrats regain control of the house and senate, they'll pass election reform legislation.

Oh crap, it's 2008, isn't it!?

Here we go again...the slight majority does not equal control...except in the minds of those on the right who want to slam the Democrats time and again. IF the dems could indeed pass meaningful election reform, it'd probably be veto'd by GWB, the man put in office by voter fraud/election manipulation in the first place...

Ah, well why even try then!? No point in even introducing any legislation until you have a majority and a president in the white house. Nice apologism.
 
Originally posted by: alchemize
Originally posted by: BoomerD
Originally posted by: alchemize
The good news is, once the democrats regain control of the house and senate, they'll pass election reform legislation.

Oh crap, it's 2008, isn't it!?

Here we go again...the slight majority does not equal control...except in the minds of those on the right who want to slam the Democrats time and again. IF the dems could indeed pass meaningful election reform, it'd probably be veto'd by GWB, the man put in office by voter fraud/election manipulation in the first place...

Ah, well why even try then!? No point in even introducing any legislation until you have a majority and a president in the white house. Nice apologism.

Then what's the republican excuse? They held majority in both house and senate, PLUS the presidency...or were they comfortable with dishonest elections?
 
Somehow - even with all the "rigged diebold machines and dishonest elections" - the democrats managed to win both houses. Explain that one?

Maybe all these basement-dwelling blackbox voting conspiracy theorists should design a fool-proof open source system that outperforms the crap access databases put out by Diebold and sell it to the states at cost?
 
From Sirjonk, wrt my remarks about voting machine insecurity and the reasons for it-

To what purpose?

If nothing else, and I'm not saying there is anything else, they saved money on development costs. They know how to make secure systems, their banking customers insist on it and the contractual liabilities are huge, I'm sure.

From alchemize-

Somehow - even with all the "rigged diebold machines and dishonest elections" - the democrats managed to win both houses. Explain that one?

Maybe the win would have been bigger w/o all that you mention... but swinging it clear to the other side would have been too suspicious... Not that I'm saying such is the case, but that insecurities revealed thus far merely feed the paranoia.

When the day comes that a voting machine company challenges all comers to crack their equipment, and nobody can do the deed, I'll say they're worthy... until then, no.
 
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