States Consider Increasing Taxes for the Poor and Cutting Them for the Affluent

[berzerker60]

Oh wow... so naive. It's obvious you have little knowledge(may or may not be your fault) of money/taxes/investments nor what the time value of money is and how it affects wealth.
Since you asked why I see a need to treat long and short differently, let me ask you this: Are you suggesting "income" be taxed only when realized? What is your definition of "income"(or I'll help here - "realized income")?

You see, most "rich" don't realize income from investments, they roll them into other investments. Heck, most "rich" don't even have them as personal investments. But yeah, continue on thinking that taxing everything progressively will work... sheesh.

Do you have any idea how capital gains taxes work right now? Because what you're describing is exactly the status quo. They're taxed when realized, or deducted when realized losses. The only difference is that right now capital gains are taxed at a much lower rate than regular income. There's no good reason for this, just some hand-waving about "incentivizing investment," as if having more money than there's any possible use for, plus inflation eating away at its real value, isn't already incentive enough. I'm not suggesting any kind of radical change, just not giving capital gains their own special class as a handout to the rich.

 

[PokerGuy]

I would have to check what taxes are included. Any tax or fee should be included, although including the lottery would be a little dicier in my opinion.

Generally, the studies I've seen don't include fines/levies/fees on items that are completely optional and discretionary (cigarettes etc). Another example is the impact of utility fees and fees for permits / filings / document requests and such. If you need a document from a government agency and there's a flat fee, it's obviously going to be a form of regressive tax, even though it's not technically a "tax". Same for penalties etc, and even fines for traffic / parking violations are effectively regressive taxes even though technically they are not taxes and the 'taxpayer' can avoid paying them. The higher the cost of the fees/penalties/permits etc, the bigger the impact on those least able to pay more. Need a passport to travel? $100 is no big deal for a wealthy person, but a big chunk of disposable income to someone working at walmart.

 

[Jhhnn]

ITEP ..... lol. Do you want to quote huffpo next? Or maybe dailykos? Worthless drivel.



... which has exactly nothing to do with the points I made. Continue to fight the stawman as you wish.

When you can't argue with the numbers, attack the source, right?

Low taxes? Heh. Taxes are really low in the third world. But their rich are very, very rich. It's the Republican model of "prosperity".

 

[Jhhnn]

Generally, the studies I've seen don't include fines/levies/fees on items that are completely optional and discretionary (cigarettes etc). Another example is the impact of utility fees and fees for permits / filings / document requests and such. If you need a document from a government agency and there's a flat fee, it's obviously going to be a form of regressive tax, even though it's not technically a "tax". Same for penalties etc, and even fines for traffic / parking violations are effectively regressive taxes even though technically they are not taxes and the 'taxpayer' can avoid paying them. The higher the cost of the fees/penalties/permits etc, the bigger the impact on those least able to pay more. Need a passport to travel? $100 is no big deal for a wealthy person, but a big chunk of disposable income to someone working at walmart.

So it's probably worse than the numbers indicate, huh?

Which apparently means we need to... raise taxes at the bottom, cut 'em at the top for more of that great trickle down action we love so much, huh?

I think that's the topic of this thread...

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Do you have any idea how capital gains taxes work right now? Because what you're describing is exactly the status quo. They're taxed when realized, or deducted when realized losses. The only difference is that right now capital gains are taxed at a much lower rate than regular income. There's no good reason for this, just some hand-waving about "incentivizing investment," as if having more money than there's any possible use for, plus inflation eating away at its real value, isn't already incentive enough. I'm not suggesting any kind of radical change, just not giving capital gains their own special class as a handout to the rich.

cap gain are one piece of it yes. IMO there is no good reason for taxing labor but yet you want it more progressive as if that's going to soften anything for those who earn less on their labor. Clearly by trying to single out cap gains you are missing what I've stated. It may make you feel good to try to extract more money from the "rich" with more progressive taxation, you are missing the realities of investments and other wealth creation vehicles. Meh, it's likely not your fault, our gov't school system just doesn't teach people about it. oh well.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

It absolutely is an 'on balance' issue. It's better for the poor if the rich are paying more as they would get more services as compared to what they were paying in.

But it doesn't change that they have a bigger "burden" relative to total income. no?

 

[Matt1970]

Why are you so focused on gas taxes? The easiest way to figure out what states are probably screwing poor people the most is to look for ones with no income tax. They usually replace it with a sales tax, which is about the most regressive tax there is. Overall the state's with the most regressive taxes tend to be a mix of red and blue states though. (Although blue states often offer more services, which blunts the effect somewhat)

Gas tax is a sales tax. This thread was started because of taxes on "gas, e-cigarettes, and goods and services in general" Care to criticize the OP and his story then?

 

[Cozarkian]

Eliminate tax on used goods. It is fair because the wealthy can choose to buy secondhand clothes and cars, but tends to benefit the poor who are more likely to do so.

For more controversial ideas: tax dividends and capital gains at normal rates. Allow companies to deduct dividends paid to avoid double taxation.

Make the standard deduction equal to the federal poverty line for a single person. Double it for married filing iointly. Above the line deductions for charitable giving snip to 50% of income and student loan interest. Eliminate other itemized deductions.