Starting w/ Shuttle barbones; quad core Q9550

[liquidsense]

I started a thread here about buying a pre-built Shuttle system. (http://forums.anandtech.com/me...2317524&enterthread=y).

One person responded that it might be a bit expensive, so I went to Newegg to see if I could piece the same or similar build together. Indeed, it was about $200.00 cheaper when parts are bought separately. (I am fairly confident with building).

I am looking for a nice, speedy, compact home system; primarily for uses including video output via DVI, watching 720p video, word processing, using Citrix, heavy web browsing, light Photoshop, light video editing (i.e., Nero on 720p video clips), very light gaming (at most, simple web games).

Would like to keep costs low, but am willing to go as high as $850.00. The current build below is priced at $525.00.

I would greatly appreciate if someone could confirm that this build will: 1) work; 2) is worth the money; and 3) could be vastly better with minor changes:

1) Shuttle SG31G2S barebone
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16856101055

2) Intel Core 2 Quad Q8200 2.33GHz LGA 775 95W
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16819115055

3) Western Digital Caviar SE16 500GB 7200 RPM 16MB Cache SATA 3.0Gb
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16822136073

4) Kingston HyperX 2GB (2 x 1GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16820134012

5) LINKSYS WMP54G 802.11b/g, PC 2.2
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16833124115

6) Pioneer 20X DVD+-R DVD Burner IDE (this confuses me; can I use IDE on this board? Or must it be SATA?)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16827129028

Is this everything that I need? (I understand that the Shuttle barebones comes with a board, power, and cooling, right?) I have OS, monitor, keyboard, and mouse at home.

Also, what are your thoughts on paying $60 more for the Intel Core2 Quad Q9400 2.66GHz? Would it make that much of a difference? Probably don't need video card for my purposes? 2GB of RAM enough?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Zap]

1) G31 chipset forever limited to 4GB RAM. If that is fine for you, then it is a decent choice. However, since the optical drive you choose is black, you might be interested in the black version of the Shuttle.

2) Do you live near a Micro Center? If so, you can probably pick up a faster Core 2 Quad for less, or a much faster one for a bit more (if they're still on sale). Alternately you can get a cheaper Core 2 Duo E7400, or an E8400/E8500 for a few bucks more. The reason I mention these is that based on your usage patterns I don't think you'd take too much advantage of a quad core and in many circumstances a faster MHz dual core can outperform (or perform similar to) a lower MHz quad core. Also, the dual cores use less power and create less heat. The other thing is that the Core 2 Quads are available with various sizes of cache memory, which can affect performance. The Q8200 is cheap for a reason - 4MB cache. Heck, the E8400/E8500 dual cores have 6MB cache, 50% more.

3) For HDD I'd go with either the Seagate 500GB 7200.12 or the Western Digital 640GB Black. Those are some of the faster drives in that price/capacity range. Fast hard drives can attribute to that snappy feeling as you are doing things around Windows.

4) For memory I'd recommend maxing out the system at 4GB. With RAM being so cheap and with the system only having two RAM slots, no reason not to. I'd suggest something that runs at the stock 1.8v such as these G.Skill kits. I linked it because it was the cheapest, but just look for DDR2-800 at 1.8v with CAS 5.

5) Wireless adapters are commodities. I've seen all brands fail <- this is the reality with wireless, stuff works great and one day it doesn't work and you might be able to fix it or you might have to replace stuff. I'd either get a cheaper adapter or get one that does "N" for future capabilities. Being capable of using external antennas is a must, as sometimes that's the only thing which will give you a workable signal.

6) Get a SATA drive. No point in EIDE for a new system unless you are running out of SATA ports. The Shuttle lists three ports, so with one hard drive and one optical, you still have a free port.

If your "very light gaming" ever extends beyond "simple web games" then a graphics card will help. Some graphics cards may also help in Photoshop and Nero. Due to the nature of the Shuttle system, you will want a graphics card that is single slot (the physical space Shuttle gives it), which doesn't take additional power (Shuttle has 250W PSU) and accelerates CUDA (for Photoshop and Nero). The most powerful cards you can get are the "low power" 9800 GT such as the BFG 9800 GT EcoIntelligence (standard disclaimers apply). There are also other brands making similar low power 9800 GT such as PNY and XFX, and EVGA makes a lower performance 9600 GT version.

 

[liquidsense]

Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my questions. This information is going to be invaluable. I'll post my final build specs before I do this. Thanks, Zap.

 

[liquidsense]

Ok. I made a couple tweaks. I went with a quad core because I want to minimize delay when rendering/editing/compressing video. Quad core will help in that regard, right?

Also, on Newegg, the Intel Q9550, 2.83 GHz, 12MB cache is the same price as the Intel Q9400, 2.66GHz, 6MB cache. Why is that? Isn't the Q9550 far better?

My needs: snappy, compact home system; primarily for uses including video output via DVI, watching 720p video, word processing, using Citrix, heavy web browsing, light Photoshop, light video editing (i.e., Nero on 720p video clips), very light gaming (at most, simple web games). I do a lot of writing, research, reading, and web-surfing on the computer. Though they are simple tasks, I really want them to perform extremely snappily.

Total cost (of build below): $580.00 (My budget is $850.00).

1) Case (barebone) - Shuttle SG31G2S BLACK

2) PCU - Intel Core 2 QUad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz, 12MB Cache, 95W
Microcenter next to my house is selling Intel Core i7 920 for $200.00. But this will not work on the Shuttle barebones, right?

3) HDD - Western Digital BLACK WD6401AALS 640 GB, 7200 RPM, 32MB Cache, SATA 3.0Gb/s

4) Memory - G.Skill F2-6400CL5D-4GB (2 x 2GB)

5) Networking - ASUS WL-138G V2 IEEE 802.11b/g PCI Wireless Adapter

6) DVD - Samsung 22x DVD+-R DVD Burner SATA BLACK

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: liquidsense
Thank you so much for taking the time to respond to my questions. This information is going to be invaluable. I'll post my final build specs before I do this. Thanks, Zap.

You're welcome. I've noticed that this is really the third time in a couple months that you've created a thread on (roughly) this subject. If you keep talking about this subject (your buying/building a small computer) just keep it to this thread, m'kay? No need to keep creating new threads talking about the same thing.

Originally posted by: liquidsense
Ok. I made a couple tweaks. I went with a quad core because I want to minimize delay when rendering/editing/compressing video. Quad core will help in that regard, right?

Also, on Newegg, the Intel Q9550, 2.83 GHz, 12MB cache is the same price as the Intel Q9400, 2.66GHz, 6MB cache. Why is that? Isn't the Q9550 far better?

Quad cores might help. It really depends on the version of software you are using. Most software is barely catching up to supporting dual cores, and that is if you are using the latest versions.

Yes, Q9550 is far better than Q9400 with higher MHz and double cache.

Originally posted by: liquidsense
Though they are simple tasks, I really want them to perform extremely snappily.

Total cost (of build below): $580.00 (My budget is $850.00).

A number of things can add to that "snappy" feeling when doing just average tasks. One of them is to keep your Windows install lean. This means not having a ton of stuff running in the background. Personally I don't keep anti-virus running because those are notorious for bogging down Windows. The fewer things running in the background, the more "immediate" your active software becomes.

As for throwing hardware at this issue, more RAM is always good, but Windows XP (32 bit version) only uses up to 3.25GB and the Shuttle system you choose with the G31 chipset only supports 4GB. You'll need a different chipset and 64 bit operating system for more RAM support.

I've personally found faster hard drives to give my systems that snappy feeling. I used Raptors and now use VelociRaptors. Of course now there are SSDs, but they can be problematic if you choose the wrong one or are using Windows XP (you need to tweak a bunch of stuff to get it to run right). However, once set up right I've heard that SSDs are the way to go. If you need capacity, then the trick is to have the fast drive (VelociRaptor or SSD) as the drive that Windows and your software is installed on, and a normal hard drive for all your data (your photos and videos).

One other thing is that there is anecdotal evidence that CPUs with integrated memory controllers (such as Core i7 and AMD chips like Phenom II) feel snappier under normal use than chips that don't have integrated memory controllers (like Core 2 Quad and Core 2 Duo). If you would like to research this route, Shuttle makes a barebones that might work:

Shuttle SA76G2 $210

It supports Phenom II quad core processors, which are reasonably competitive with Core 2 Quad in performance, plus has an integrated memory controller. As a bonus the setup supports 8GB RAM (still two slots, so two 4GB modules) and the integrated graphics runs circles around the one in the G31 chipset.

Originally posted by: liquidsense
Microcenter next to my house is selling Intel Core i7 920 for $200.00. But this will not work on the Shuttle barebones, right?

Not the one you choose. This $650 shuttle system will work, but that will blow your budget out of the water. Alternately you can use a micro ATX case and micro ATX Core i7 motherboard. Those boards start at $170 and while the cases are a bit bigger than the Shuttle, they aren't as big as a mid-tower case. Going this route you can trim costs to under $300 for a slightly bigger barebones.

Decide what you want quick because of the Micro Center sale. They also have or had the Q9550 for a paltry $180 or so.

Have you determined if your version of Photoshop or Nero supports CUDA?

 

[liquidsense]

Originally posted by: Zap
You're welcome. I've noticed that this is really the third time in a couple months that you've created a thread on (roughly) this subject. If you keep talking about this subject (your buying/building a small computer) just keep it to this thread, m'kay? No need to keep creating new threads talking about the same thing.

Understood. I was going to resurrect my post from several months ago (where I asked similar build questions), but I couldn't find it. I think the threads only go back so far, and it wasn't far enough! That said, I'll keep it in this thread and drop the other recent thread too.

Ok, so I've had some time to contemplate on all the sage information and advice. I think I've concluded a couple things: 1) I really don't need anything more than a Core 2 Duo - I shouldn't be kidding myself (video editing is amateur and minimal at best; right now I'm using iMovie on MBP and used to use Nero back in the day); and 2) this is my first true build, and so, I think I should keep costs and specs relatively low, learn from the first build, and be willing to build an all new system in one year with more knowledge.

I think I need to keep it simple. The dual HDDs and/or SSDs, i7, integrated memory, choosing boards and PSU on a mini ATX, and raptors is just too complex for me as a novice builder. (That's not to say I don't appreciate the information. I'm learning a lot.)

I'm thinking about keeping everything the same as the last build specs EXCEPT that I'll use the Intel E8500 Wolfdale ($180.00). I'll be running Vista 64. Will that be kosher? This should do the trick, right?

Final question. If I can find the Q9550 at Microcenter for $170.00, I should go for that because the Q9550 will be better than the E8500 in every regard, correct?

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: liquidsense
Final question. If I can find the Q9550 at Microcenter for $170.00, I should go for that because the Q9550 will be better than the E8500 in every regard, correct?

Yes.

 

[liquidsense]

Thanks, Zap. I went ahead and got everything, including the Q9550 for $170.00. It was out in Chicago, and surrounding areas one minute, then I checked back and there were 40 in stock! Same with the next nearest store. Over 120 i7s too.

 

[liquidsense]

Went ahead and purchased everything. (See below). Quick question: is the generic white thermal paste that comes with the Shuttle sufficient (in terms of quality)? Or should I buy something better, like Arctic Silver? On a related noted, the sales person at Microcenter said that the thermal paste that comes pre-applied to the Q9550 heatsink is fine, but that there is not enough (so, I would need to purchase more). For the Shuttle, I won't be using the Q9550 heatsink, so I will apply the Shuttle-packaged thermal paste onto the Shuttle heatsink.

Do I need anything else? Handling gloves? Grounding strap?

1) Case (barebone) - Shuttle SG31G2S BLACK

2) PCU - Intel Core 2 QUad Q9550 Yorkfield 2.83GHz, 12MB Cache, 95W

3) HDD - Western Digital BLACK WD6401AALS 640 GB, 7200 RPM, 32MB Cache, SATA 3.0Gb/s

4) Memory - G.Skill F2-6400CL5D-4GB (2 x 2GB)

5) Networking - ASUS WL-138G V2 IEEE 802.11b/g PCI Wireless Adapter

6) DVD - Samsung 22x DVD+-R DVD Burner SATA BLACK

 

[elconejito]

So the Shuttle comes with its own heatsink? Neat. I'd use the paste they provide.

Not sure what the salesperson was trying to say, the thermal pad attached to the bottom of the Intel heatsink is ll you need. Pouring paste between the heatsink and CPU is generally not helpful. You always want to use "just enough", and more is not better.

Grounding strap is always handy, but as long as you don't shuffle your feet on the carpet you should be OK. Unless you live in a high-static area... Also have clean hands, don't go eat a bag of chips right before you pickup the CPU for example.

Other tools you might need is a screwdriver (phillips and/or flat-head), maybe some pliers. Thats about it. Have fun!

 

[liquidsense]

Success! Thank you to everyone who helped me put this thing together. The building process was as easy as pie!! -- (it was the part selection that was the hardest!)

Vista Ultimate 32-bit was getting really wonky on this system. After installing updates, the DVI out started tweaking. I set the resolution too high, and there was nothing I could do to make the DVI out work again on my monitor - even after changing settings in low res, safe mode, connecting to different monitor, etc, etc.

I ended up going with XP Pro, and everything is great.

Only hardware issue is some finicky USB ports. Some work, some do not. I'm not sure how to remedy that, but for now, everything is great.

Thanks again!