Starting a computer company (Regulations, Liability, etc)

[yottabit]

I wasn't sure where to put this but ultimately decided on HT because it is highly technical (albeit mostly business related)

I'm trying to understand the rules, regulations, etc for starting a PC or PC enclosure (case) company in the US (selling in the US only)

Mostly looking to examine:
Product regulations (must conform to XXX standards)
Mandatory testing
Product Liability Risks

On both manufacturing and selling PCs, and manufacturing and selling PC cases

Also, what about mom and pop shops that put together and sell custom PCs? Is there some exemption from these regulations for selling small qtys of customs? If so does this exemption work even if the chassis is custom?

I haven't found much on this topic with my google-fu. There doesn't seem to be nearly as much regulation as with say starting a medical, toy, or firearm company (duh).

Most of the product liability risk I assume would be more from things like false advertising/under performance than safety hazards. But if some freak accident like someone spilled water on their computer and started a fire I imagine you'd want to have product liability insurance.

Also what if I'm selling a computer, and it fails causing property damage/injury because of a component within it (say a bad OEM power supply). Would I be liable for the failure of the power supply? (I imagine I would)

It seems like it would be safer/easier to start a PC enclosure company, I just can't find out much about the rules and regulations pertaining. Are there any FCC requirements pertaining to electronic radiation?

Are there even rules and regulations?

Thanks!

 

[piasabird]

I think you need to find some place that does metal fabricating with sheet metal and work in the business for a while.

 

[yottabit]

I understand how to make a case mechanically, Im looking for info on regulatory standards in the US for cases and pcs. I know there are emi regulations by the fcc but I dont know if testing is required, or if there are other tests for different criteria

 

[tcG]

Whatever they are, they are unjust.

 

[Anteaus]

If your truly serious you might want to look into hiring a consultant and/or a lawyer that knows how to set these things up. I'm sure most of the regulations will be via OSHA and environmental concerns. The government really doesn't care about what you make or how you make it as long as everyone does it safely and you don't pollute unreasonably. As for the FCC, I'm sure there is a book of published guidelines somewhere.

 

[Smoblikat]

Wouldnt it be nice if you could simply start a buisness and actually work without having to worry about people sueing you for stubbing their toe on your product?

Anyway, I dont think there are many regulations for mom and pop shops and there are no TECHNICAL specifications cases must meet, though im sure you cant make your case out of radium or crazyt hings like that

 

[AD5MB]

last time I bought a case, they were all advertising "no sharp surfaces inside", which indicates that someone got cut up enough to sue earlier.

don't see how you can compete with Chinese labor, unless you have some clever and innovative features that will be copied in the near future

 

[VirtualLarry]

don't see how you can compete with Chinese labor, unless you have some clever and innovative features that will be copied in the near future

Cardboard? "Do not get case WET!"

The environmentalists would be all over that. No more "e-waste" from the case, it would be recyclable.

Edit: Sigh. My idea was already taken. See http://recomputepc.com/

 

[Matt1970]

It's one thing to make a case but are you considering making your own power supply? Your case can sell on the look alone and function. The Chineese labar will kill you on the power supply however. A lot of even larger case companies will get their power supplies from another company and either re-brand them or just put them in with another manufacturers label on them.

I ran a mon & pop computer store and still run one out of my house. You have insurance for liability but in 15 years I have never even had a complaint of anything I sold damaging something else much less a law suit. If you are worried however you should consider becoming an LLC as they really can't come after your personal property then in a lawsuit.

 

[A5]

The only major regulations I can think of would be that radio interference stuff with the FCC if you made a custom antenna for your design (this is why laptops and cell phones have to be FCC certified).

Other than that, a small-volume company probably wouldn't have much to worry about. I'd recommend talking to a real Attorney to handle the LLC set-up, but beyond that you shouldn't have much to worry about unless you get way bigger.

 

[Modelworks]

The FCC doesn't regulate cases of any kind, it is up to the manufacturer to test a case when they have installed their own electronics . You can't make a case and claim it will shield interference when you don't know what the contents will be, so cases are only considered when the electronics are installed and then the manufacturer of the electronics is the one that has to get the case manufacturer to do what they need in order to pass certification by the FCC. A pc that isn't assembled yet doesn't concern the FCC and even when assembled by an end user it falls under part15 rules that don't involve the case manufacturer.

The rules that apply are:

15.23 Home-built devices.
a) Equipment authorization is not required for devices that are not marketed, are not constructed from a kit, and are built in quantities of five or less for personal use.
(b) It is recognized that the individual builder of home-built equipment may not possess the means to perform the measurements for determining compliance with the regulations. In this case, the builder is expected to employ good engineering practices to meet the specified technical standards to the greatest extent practicable.

If you are not selling the cases with all the internals mass produced to hundreds of users then no certification is required, basically the FCC leaves it to the installer to make sure they are doing their best to keep interference low. Even when the FCC certifies motherboards the sides of the case used are required to be removed and the board must pass with the sides removed so the case really isn't supposed to be the thing limiting the interference, the motherboard itself must not generate enough interference that it is picked up over distance without a case .

Testing for radiated emissions shall be performed with the CPU board installed in a typical enclosure but with the enclosure's cover removed so that the internal circuitry is exposed at the top and on at least two sides. Additional components, including a power supply, peripheral devices, and subassemblies, shall be added, as needed, to result in a complete personal computer system. If the oscillator and the microprocessor circuits are contained on separate circuit boards, both boards, typical of the combination that would normally be employed, must be used in the test. Testing shall be in accordance with the procedures specified in §15.31.

 

[Modelworks]

Also what if I'm selling a computer, and it fails causing property damage/injury because of a component within it (say a bad OEM power supply). Would I be liable for the failure of the power supply? (I imagine I would)

The only way you are responsible for a fault in something you build is if you knowingly used a power supply that was bad. Corporations go through this all the time where something like a bolt fails on a device and causes millions in damages. The corporation is not liable if they bought bolts from someone who made them and certified them to be a specific bolt, the burden then is on the bolt company. The only way the original corporation is at fault is if they chose cheap non certified bolts or if they were notified the bolts were not up to spec and continued to use them anyway.

 

[VirtualLarry]

The only way you are responsible for a fault in something you build is if you knowingly used a power supply that was bad. Corporations go through this all the time where something like a bolt fails on a device and causes millions in damages. The corporation is not liable if they bought bolts from someone who made them and certified them to be a specific bolt, the burden then is on the bolt company. The only way the original corporation is at fault is if they chose cheap non certified bolts or if they were notified the bolts were not up to spec and continued to use them anyway.

Elaborating a bit on that, if I built a computer, with a case + PSU, and the PSU was UL-listed, then if that computer failed spectacularly in the PSU, would I then not be liable, since I used a UL-listed PSU, and UL tests PSUs to not fail spectacularly?

That actually happened to a client of mine once.

 

[Modelworks]

Elaborating a bit on that, if I built a computer, with a case + PSU, and the PSU was UL-listed, then if that computer failed spectacularly in the PSU, would I then not be liable, since I used a UL-listed PSU, and UL tests PSUs to not fail spectacularly?

That actually happened to a client of mine once.

Things like this come up a lot in law and lawyers I have asked always say the same thing about just about any law, read the law as it would apply to "a reasonable person" . Basically what they mean is if you did everything you should do and it is what others are doing as well, meaning you are not doing an unaccepted practice in the field, then you are not negligent and it isn't your fault.


For a PSU if you used one that was represented to you as being of good quality and you had no other knowledge that it was not good quality and something bad happened it would not be your fault since you did everything you had to do under the law.

This is where a lot of the class action law suits come from, when you have something like the capacitors failing in lots of samsung televisions. To collect ,the lawyers have to prove samsung knowingly used inferior parts or continued to use inferior parts after they had been notified. If the company had no knowledge of it then they can't be held liable.

Exceptions are things like an engineer designing something wrong and that design causes further damage. As an EE if I were to design a PSU and that PSU passed UL test but later caused a house fire I could be held liable if it is shown that my design was faulty and it went against what 'a reasonable person' that was an EE would do in that case. Companies have liability insurance for their EE so that if the EE makes a mistake and it is not something the company should have caught , they can file against the EE and collect the insurance. For example if 95% of the EE in the world would have used a 2A fuse and I used a 4A , I could be liable since I used a fuse that allowed twice the current of what the accepted practice of the consensus.

 

[yottabit]

The FCC doesn't regulate cases of any kind, it is up to the manufacturer to test a case when they have installed their own electronics . You can't make a case and claim it will shield interference when you don't know what the contents will be, so cases are only considered when the electronics are installed and then the manufacturer of the electronics is the one that has to get the case manufacturer to do what they need in order to pass certification by the FCC. A pc that isn't assembled yet doesn't concern the FCC and even when assembled by an end user it falls under part15 rules that don't involve the case manufacturer.

The rules that apply are:


If you are not selling the cases with all the internals mass produced to hundreds of users then no certification is required, basically the FCC leaves it to the installer to make sure they are doing their best to keep interference low. Even when the FCC certifies motherboards the sides of the case used are required to be removed and the board must pass with the sides removed so the case really isn't supposed to be the thing limiting the interference, the motherboard itself must not generate enough interference that it is picked up over distance without a case .

Thank you so much! This is exactly what I wanted to hear. I got worried because I've seen Chinese OEM case manufacturers and the like sayings something like (FCC Part 15 Certified) but that didn't make a whole lot of sense to me

 

[yottabit]

Do you think selling a Case + PSU bundle (PSU being an OEM unit) would blur this line or still be free of the FCC testing?

 

[Modelworks]

Do you think selling a Case + PSU bundle (PSU being an OEM unit) would blur this line or still be free of the FCC testing?

You would still be okay as long as you were not selling fully assembled pc, then the fcc might start to take interest but I seriously doubt it unless you are selling hundreds of them .

 

[philipma1957]

A custom case with a name brand psu should not be an issue. I have seen some sites with truly great paint jobs on cases.




http://www.maximumpc.com/article/features/custom_cases_30_eye-popping_paint_jobs#slide-0



if you built a case with a killer look and a quality psu like seasonic

you should be okay.