Starcraft 2 will be the best Game of the Century

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
as great as deus ex was, it's replayability is NOWHERE near that of starcraft's.

cross-genre comparisons typically do not do well, but i would nonetheless put SC above DE.

I'm not comparing Starcraft and Deus Ex and don't care about which one someone prefers to play. All I'm saying is that the Blizzard groupies need to stfu about how awesome this game they've never played is until we at least get a demo or see some reviews coming in.

 

[invidia]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: Fenixgoon
as great as deus ex was, it's replayability is NOWHERE near that of starcraft's.

cross-genre comparisons typically do not do well, but i would nonetheless put SC above DE.

I'm not comparing Starcraft and Deus Ex and don't care about which one someone prefers to play. All I'm saying is that the Blizzard groupies need to stfu about how awesome this game they've never played is until we at least get a demo or see some reviews coming in.

There was a playable multiplayer demo at Blizzcon. Some of us had played it. I for one sure did.

 

[HamburgerBoy]

Originally posted by: invidia
There was a playable multiplayer demo at Blizzcon. Some of us had played it. I for one sure did.

And from playing a demo of an alpha for a day you know exactly how the game will end up a few years down the road? Since you played it and I haven't obviously I can't comment on the quality of what Starcraft 2 is so far, but my comments are directed at the fanboys like the op and Soviet that (AFAIK) don't know anymore about the game than anyone else.

 

[Farmer]

Bit of an overstatement to say the least.

I just hope Blizzard doesn't get too caught up introducing new units; the most beautiful thing about SC was that there were relatively few units, but they were quite well balanced.

Unfortunately, there is some rampant money hacking going on right now on Bnet, rendering BW multiplay essentially unplayable right now. (Joined 2 games today, both games involved cheaters).

 

[Skacer]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
by your definition, there is no such thing as a good game... since there will always be someone who doesn't like it. Good gamer are all subjective, but the more people that like them, the better game it is. If someone made a game that you were the only person in the world who liked, does that make it a good game? no, it is great for you, but it will be considered a bad game if 99% of the gaming population do not like it. That is just how we classify good/bad games.

Partially true, but incomplete. Majority vote is only half of the final verdict. A lot of people may buy Halo, but like bud light, it doesn't necessarily make it a good thing. There is a point where lack of knowledge becomes the burden. And that is where the technical aspect of any review comes in. I can compare the engine of one RTS to another, which one makes it easier to move, which one makes it easier to create new maps, which one has better balanced units. Some of these things will be more factual than opinion even. And this could be where a game that everyone and their mom likes loses to another game that simply didn't get the marketing it deserved (ico, godhand, system shock 2, psychonauts, the list goes on).

Lucky for SC, it has both the technical and majority vote in complete and total lockdown. It is right to say that no one here knows just how good SC2 may end up, but it is fair, based on the Blizzard's track record alone to have good faith in it. You may have hated WC3 and WoW, but once again you'd be the minority in that vote as well. DOTA alone has kept WC3 one of the most popular games going for several years now and WoW, well, I don't need to comment on WoW. Blizzard is one of the developers where you have to actually ask yourself, when was their last bad game? I mean truly bad, bomb of a game.

As far as I'm concerned, the second I saw shots of SC2 and realized they've managed to make a 3D game look as good as their 2D artwork I knew I was sold. Knowing Blizzard, there is even a chance I might be able to run this full screen at 2560x1600 res.

 

[invidia]

Originally posted by: HamburgerBoy

Originally posted by: invidia
There was a playable multiplayer demo at Blizzcon. Some of us had played it. I for one sure did.

And from playing a demo of an alpha for a day you know exactly how the game will end up a few years down the road? Since you played it and I haven't obviously I can't comment on the quality of what Starcraft 2 is so far, but my comments are directed at the fanboys like the op and Soviet that (AFAIK) don't know anymore about the game than anyone else.

Well, the game is mostly done and the multiplayer was playable with two races already (pretty sure they are not 100% done). What they are working on right now is the content and balancing issues. I only got the feel of the game, not the entire thing. All I can see that Blizzard is doing is adding the units and balancing them to a level where it's reasonable for a beta release.

The most defining role of these types of games is its replayability and multiplayer capabilities, not the single player. I highly doubt it will take 2-3 more years until this thing will be finished. It'll definitely come out before Q2 2008, unless there is some major overhaul or cease in development. The only thing that seems to be slowing them down is the single player content.

All I can judge for this game, being a Blizz fanboy, is that the game is going well so far. I'm definitely getting it but I won't say it's the best game until I actually play the final retail version of it. I'm kinda disliking the fact they are introducing so many new units or just renaming the old ones. The protoss units were just weird in design and gameplay. Most of them didn't "fit" with the protoss race and style. And where the hell are the reavers??

 

[lupi]

Single player will probably be pretty fun, but I have little faith that multiplayer will be better than TA2.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

I have one anxiety. If DOTA gets released to Starcraft 2, I will get the nearest living being and strangle it.

 

[lupi]

Dota?

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: VashHT

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: Tegeril

Originally posted by: pontifex
i'm going to try something here...

so why exactly is SC2 going to be the game of the century? SC wasn't that fun imo.

You are a member of a very, very small minority.

so because a lot of people play it, it means its good?

Have to agree with Pontifex, just because a game has sold mass quantities doesn't make it automatically good, just that it appeals to a wide audience and that audience managed to all learn about the game.

I honestly don't think SC2 will be very good, I prefer the style of CoH or DoW far more than the old style of resource and base management.

well, if anyone said yes, i was going to ask why SC2 was different than WoW because everyone says just because WoW has a huge amount of players doesn't means it's good. Just checking to see if there was a double standard here.

 

[VashHT]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU

Originally posted by: VashHT

Originally posted by: Dethfrumbelo
Reality is perception. Two people can look at the same 'object/situation/concept' and have entirely different, oftentimes opposing views of its nature/purpose/value.

One man's pain can be another man's pleasure, treasure or trash, etc. Everything, and I do mean everything, is subjective in life. The only absolute is there are no absolutes.

Very well said. If there is one thing I can't stand about SC, its not the game itself, but people who try to force their opinion as an absolute truth.

No offense tenshodo, but storyline and the quotes you posted are all subjective. As much as I loved carriers in SC, that alone doesn't make it a good game. The gameplay really ends up being subjective as well. Plus you kind of contradict yourself, saying that micro weeds out people who don't want to learn, but its simple to pick up. I think it would be more correct to say micro weeds out the good from bad players.

by your definition, there is no such thing as a good game... since there will always be someone who doesn't like it. Good gamer are all subjective, but the more people that like them, the better game it is. If someone made a game that you were the only person in the world who liked, does that make it a good game? no, it is great for you, but it will be considered a bad game if 99% of the gaming population do not like it. That is just how we classify good/bad games.

Thats the whole problem with it. By my definition a good game is a game you like, I never said there was no such thing. That is obviously the best definition of a good game, because no matter how good a game sells and how many people like it there is always a chance that you won't like it. My problem with classifying games by majority is people who defend it crazily to the point where they insult you for not liking their precious game. I've had people call me all kinds of things just because I don't like SC, but I don't understand why they feel the need to defend it so much. If they like it, why do they care if you don't, they act like if the majority likes it then EVERYONE should, not just them. Anyway I guess my whole point is that what makes a good game is always subjective, there really is no absolute thing as a good game, you can't honestly tell me that you love every single game that has ever sold well in the history of gaming.

 

[MikeyLSU]

no I haven't.

In fact a great example is the Halo series...I don't understand the love people have for it. I played the first and second and just didn't like it. I can name many FPS on the PC that blow it away IMO...but I still consider it a good game because it does sell great and does get great reviews, just not my preference.

 

[Pacemaker]

Originally posted by: MikeyLSU
no I haven't.

In fact a great example is the Halo series...I don't understand the love people have for it. I played the first and second and just didn't like it. I can name many FPS on the PC that blow it away IMO...but I still consider it a good game because it does sell great and does get great reviews, just not my preference.

"On the PC" is the key there. If Doom 3 had been a PS2 exclusive you would hear all about how it was the greatest FPS of all time and etc, but it was on the PC so it is just another good PC FPS.

 

[TehMac]

I don't know, it seems cool, but it doesn't seem...I don't know, never played SC, so I can't say anything really, but the setting doesn't like me that much.

 

[Skacer]

Originally posted by: pontifex
well, if anyone said yes, i was going to ask why SC2 was different than WoW because everyone says just because WoW has a huge amount of players doesn't means it's good. Just checking to see if there was a double standard here.

I already replied to this above.

But in regards to WoW, plenty of technical reviews have weighed in on WoW and stated it is good. The game is excellent. It won GOTY awards. The complaints against WoW are often times extremely trivial such as "wow kiddies" which is not something Blizzard went and created. When the worst complaints against a game are personal preference opinions and community complaints, I'd say it is doing a damn good job.

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: Skacer

Originally posted by: pontifex
well, if anyone said yes, i was going to ask why SC2 was different than WoW because everyone says just because WoW has a huge amount of players doesn't means it's good. Just checking to see if there was a double standard here.

I already replied to this above.

But in regards to WoW, plenty of technical reviews have weighed in on WoW and stated it is good. The game is excellent. It won GOTY awards. The complaints against WoW are often times extremely trivial such as "wow kiddies" which is not something Blizzard went and created. When the worst complaints against a game are personal preference opinions and community complaints, I'd say it is doing a damn good job.

Well the graphics are also quite terrible IMO. Everytime I see a thread like this: http://img222.imageshack.us/im...hot080407010723ds5.jpg with screenshots, I always click on them for the laugh.

KT

 

[Skacer]

Originally posted by: tenshodo13
I have one anxiety. If DOTA gets released to Starcraft 2, I will get the nearest living being and strangle it.

Considering that DOTA was the natural evolution of SC RPG maps, It only stands to reason that there will be a DOTA2 for SC2. I suppose that all depends on how powerful the map editing engine is, but I would be more surprised if it didn't happen.

 

[VashHT]

Originally posted by: Skacer

Originally posted by: pontifex
well, if anyone said yes, i was going to ask why SC2 was different than WoW because everyone says just because WoW has a huge amount of players doesn't means it's good. Just checking to see if there was a double standard here.

I already replied to this above.

But in regards to WoW, plenty of technical reviews have weighed in on WoW and stated it is good. The game is excellent. It won GOTY awards. The complaints against WoW are often times extremely trivial such as "wow kiddies" which is not something Blizzard went and created. When the worst complaints against a game are personal preference opinions and community complaints, I'd say it is doing a damn good job.

Well what other kinds of complaints are there besides personal preference and community complaints. I guess you could say technical ones, and I have heard plenty of technical complaints about WoW too.

 

[Skacer]

Originally posted by: VashHT
Well what other kinds of complaints are there besides personal preference and community complaints. I guess you could say technical ones, and I have heard plenty of technical complaints about WoW too.

Universal comparisons: How good the default UI is, how modifiable it is. How laggy the game is. The graphics. Music/sound. Quest/storyline content. Class balance. Armor variation. How each class plays, do they have enough skills? Gameplay. Difficulty/Challenge. Unique locations. Grouping system. Travel system. How well the game accommodates raiding.

IE: If an MMORPG comes out with no way to group more than 5 people, then it obviously doesn't support raiding. Now whether you do or don't like raiding is personal preference. But whether the game supports raiding is a factual piece of information.

If an MMORPG comes out and a large number of the quests don't work, that is above and beyond personal preference.

Every technical and personal preference complaint you could list about WoW could be echoed 2fold by any other MMORPG. That is why it is #1.

 

[VashHT]

Originally posted by: Skacer

Originally posted by: VashHT
Well what other kinds of complaints are there besides personal preference and community complaints. I guess you could say technical ones, and I have heard plenty of technical complaints about WoW too.

Universal comparisons: How good the default UI is, how modifiable it is. How laggy the game is. The graphics. Music/sound. Quest/storyline content. Class balance. Armor variation. How each class plays, do they have enough skills? Gameplay. Difficulty/Challenge. Unique locations. Grouping system. Travel system. How well the game accommodates raiding.

IE: If an MMORPG comes out with no way to group more than 5 people, then it obviously doesn't support raiding. Now whether you do or don't like raiding is personal preference. But whether the game supports raiding is a factual piece of information.

If an MMORPG comes out and a large number of the quests don't work, that is above and beyond personal preference.

Every technical and personal preference complaint you could list about WoW could be echoed 2fold by any other MMORPG. That is why it is #1.

Well, all of the stuff you listed is mostly personal preference, and has no real measurable standard. Graphics? well most people say WoW's graphics are total crap, but some people like it, again personal preference. Music/sound definitely personal, not everyone likes the same music. Quests/storyline, even difficulty are all personal preference. The only one you listed that I wouldnt consider personal preference would be class balance, but then again most people complain about WoW being unbalanced as well. You cite raiding as a measurement, but only in a sense of whether it has it or not. Of course how well it accomodates raiding is personal preference as well, some people love raiding but think the WoW raiding system is crap, some people think its good. I would agree WoW is my favorite MMORPG I have played, but I would definitely say all of my reasons for like it are personal preference, and not based on some kind of absolute golden standard.

 

[Skacer]

Originally posted by: VashHT
Well, all of the stuff you listed is mostly personal preference, and has no real measurable standard. Graphics? well most people say WoW's graphics are total crap, but some people like it, again personal preference. Music/sound definitely personal, not everyone likes the same music. Quests/storyline, even difficulty are all personal preference. The only one you listed that I wouldnt consider personal preference would be class balance, but then again most people complain about WoW being unbalanced as well. You cite raiding as a measurement, but only in a sense of whether it has it or not. Of course how well it accomodates raiding is personal preference as well, some people love raiding but think the WoW raiding system is crap, some people think its good. I would agree WoW is my favorite MMORPG I have played, but I would definitely say all of my reasons for like it are personal preference, and not based on some kind of absolute golden standard.

Whether you like the graphics may be personal preference, but there are some standards. Do they look uniform? Are they complete? Any missing images? Do they run acceptably or is the engine terribly coded?

The music, is it there? Does it have unique music for most zones or just 1 song it loops everywhere? Are the sound effects unique? Are the high quality or low quality?

How do you think magazines review this shit, by tossing a coin up in the air and going "I feel this game is pretty nice". No, they judge it against it's peers and how it matches up. If WoW comes out with a questing system and then Auto Assault comes out with barely any questing system. People can say that AA didn't meet the standards setup by past titles, the base level of expectations for the genre. Like making an FPS where you can't jump.

"some people love raiding but think the WoW raiding system is crap"
And for that person's opinion to be worth anything they have to justify it with something. Crap in comparison to what, a fictitious game you made up in your head that has a really good sounding raiding system?

You think difficulty is personal preference because you are thinking small scale. As in, I think this guy should be a little harder, and I think this guy should be a little easier. But what about large scale as in, Is this guy even killable? How come my level 1 can kill this level 50? And you are thinking small scale because the MMO you are attempting to complain about is one of the most polished MMORPGs to ever be released in the genre. You don't have any concept of actual broken gameplay.

 

[Xavier434]

I like RTS games but I am not a big time RTS fan like a lot of people are. I played SC1, Warcraft 1-3, Age of Empires, Age of Mythology, a couple of the Command and Conquers and a few others that I don't remember the names of. I got a chance to play SC2 at Blizzcon and I have to say that it was the most fun out of all the RTS games I have played so far. It will open up a lot of opportunities for the truly great RTS strategists to shine.

 

[Mellman]

Originally posted by: exdeath
No it will just be a remake of Starcraft with the WC3 engine, it isn't going to change anything or re-revolutionize a thing.

Thank you. Its sad...but true

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: Skacer

Originally posted by: pontifex
well, if anyone said yes, i was going to ask why SC2 was different than WoW because everyone says just because WoW has a huge amount of players doesn't means it's good. Just checking to see if there was a double standard here.

I already replied to this above.

But in regards to WoW, plenty of technical reviews have weighed in on WoW and stated it is good. The game is excellent. It won GOTY awards. The complaints against WoW are often times extremely trivial such as "wow kiddies" which is not something Blizzard went and created. When the worst complaints against a game are personal preference opinions and community complaints, I'd say it is doing a damn good job.

Well the graphics are also quite terrible IMO. Everytime I see a thread like this: http://img222.imageshack.us/im...hot080407010723ds5.jpg with screenshots, I always click on them for the laugh.

KT

I like WoW's graphics. I'd rather play see them than something like EQ2's or Vanguard's

 

[KeithTalent]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: KeithTalent

Originally posted by: Skacer

Originally posted by: pontifex
well, if anyone said yes, i was going to ask why SC2 was different than WoW because everyone says just because WoW has a huge amount of players doesn't means it's good. Just checking to see if there was a double standard here.

I already replied to this above.

But in regards to WoW, plenty of technical reviews have weighed in on WoW and stated it is good. The game is excellent. It won GOTY awards. The complaints against WoW are often times extremely trivial such as "wow kiddies" which is not something Blizzard went and created. When the worst complaints against a game are personal preference opinions and community complaints, I'd say it is doing a damn good job.

Well the graphics are also quite terrible IMO. Everytime I see a thread like this: http://img222.imageshack.us/im...hot080407010723ds5.jpg with screenshots, I always click on them for the laugh.

KT

I like WoW's graphics. I'd rather play see them than something like EQ2's or Vanguard's

Never played EQ2, but I played Vanguard and I can agree with you there. I currently play LOTRO and I just find the graphics in that game much more appealing than the cartoony/comic book graphics of WoW.

KT