star wars old republic is actually quite good

[Dumac]

Is this actually confirmed? As I understood it, this was a rumor and no timeframe was given. Although it is likely to become fact, when is the question.

If it becomes FTP soon, while the game is still relevant - then maybe it does OK based on the sticker price and people picking it up. If they wait 3 years then no, it won't do well.

I've heard rumors of all kinds but a large majority of people say it will be a long time before its FTP. And even then, its not 100% that it will be.

You must have missed the news

http://www.swtor.com/free

And by the "sticker price"...do you mean free?

 

[thespyder]

This. Dragon Age 2 was light years worse than Dragon Age origins. It can almost even be stated as a fact because approximately 98-99.9% of the people who have played both agree on it.

Oh, absolutely. 100% agree that DA:O was amazing. And DA2 was a travesty.

My point was that Karmy thinks that DA2 was better than DA:O. And if you are going to take their endorsement of SW:TOR, bear that in mind.

Every once in a while I consider getting SW:TOR. Then I think about how much I HATED Everquest. not that it was a bad game. It just wasn't my type of game. I make NO judgement on how good or bad it was. And I LOVED KoTOR 1-2.

I was actually watching The Matrix on TV this morning. And it really got me to thinking "That is why" I don't like MMOs. If you play KoTOR, your character is Neo (for all intents and purposes). When you play an MMO, EVERYONE is NEO and it really detracts from the uniqueness and special feeling you get from playing a single player game.

Disclaimer. I am not saying that everyone does or should feel this way. Merely that I do. /Disclaimer.

 

[diesbudt]

Oh, absolutely. 100% agree that DA:O was amazing. And DA2 was a travesty.

My point was that Karmy thinks that DA2 was better than DA:O. And if you are going to take their endorsement of SW:TOR, bear that in mind.

Every once in a while I consider getting SW:TOR. Then I think about how much I HATED Everquest. not that it was a bad game. It just wasn't my type of game. I make NO judgement on how good or bad it was. And I LOVED KoTOR 1-2.

I was actually watching The Matrix on TV this morning. And it really got me to thinking "That is why" I don't like MMOs. If you play KoTOR, your character is Neo (for all intents and purposes). When you play an MMO, EVERYONE is NEO and it really detracts from the uniqueness and special feeling you get from playing a single player game.

Disclaimer. I am not saying that everyone does or should feel this way. Merely that I do. /Disclaimer.

Makes total sense.

Then yea MMO really isnt your genre for you.

 

[darkewaffle]

You're still trying to pretend every character is/needs to be a ball carrier/scorer, which is a recipe for failure. Huttball has numerous [broad] roles to fulfill; ok, so you can't catch the ball runner. What do you do? Protect mid so you can get the next ball, cc/kill the enemies trying to catch up to him, preemptively position yourself on the enemy side for a pass, setup on your own side to slow them getting back to mid. This is simple stuff that any class can do.

The effective operatives in a huttball match aren't the ones that are trying to play like a juggernaut, but the ones that play to their class' strengths. Hound the healer, burst him so he's not healing the carrier, lay into the sorc that's putting out pressure on your team, do what your class is good at, create kills and pressure. And operative healers have it even better, they're the only characters that can heal effectively without standing still, so while they don't have any leaps or knockbacks or dashes, they're still great for accompanying the ball carrier.

However with that said I also can't possibly count the number of effectively free points earned by something as simple as stealth camping the enemy end zone, so there's always that too.

My sniper friend understood it wasn't his job to carry the ball, so he'd set up to harass healers and use his knockback(s) to our team's advantage and just generally do what he was good at, damage. He'd get annoyed when someone actually passed him the ball because he knew that wasn't a good fit for his class; but he was still absolutely valuable to our team. That didn't stop him from getting in position for a pass or a score in a pinch of course, but if all went to plan, the idea was that shouldn't really need to happen.

If you're really hell bent on moving the ball, passing is bar none the best way to do it, possible exception made for leap->push->leap. Passing has no cooldown and can cover absolutely obscene distance. And everyone can do it.

 

[AMDZen]

You must have missed the news

http://www.swtor.com/free

And by the "sticker price"...do you mean free?

I guess I did.

So ... you're saying you don't have to buy the game even? You just download it for free too?

 

[micrometers]

I guess I did.

So ... you're saying you don't have to buy the game even? You just download it for free too?

yeah, but even at free it's not worth the time investment.

it's hard to put a finger on it, but the game doesn't feel smooth. It is a bioware game so is in-line with the "formula" but it is annoying that they haven't tried new story-telling techniques and instead force you to sit still for like 5-10 minutes at a time and watch a conversation.

 

[Wardawg1001]

You're still trying to pretend every character is/needs to be a ball carrier/scorer, which is a recipe for failure. Huttball has numerous [broad] roles to fulfill; ok, so you can't catch the ball runner. What do you do? Protect mid so you can get the next ball, cc/kill the enemies trying to catch up to him, preemptively position yourself on the enemy side for a pass, setup on your own side to slow them getting back to mid. This is simple stuff that any class can do.

The effective operatives in a huttball match aren't the ones that are trying to play like a juggernaut, but the ones that play to their class' strengths. Hound the healer, burst him so he's not healing the carrier, lay into the sorc that's putting out pressure on your team, do what your class is good at, create kills and pressure. And operative healers have it even better, they're the only characters that can heal effectively without standing still, so while they don't have any leaps or knockbacks or dashes, they're still great for accompanying the ball carrier.

However with that said I also can't possibly count the number of effectively free points earned by something as simple as stealth camping the enemy end zone, so there's always that too.

My sniper friend understood it wasn't his job to carry the ball, so he'd set up to harass healers and use his knockback(s) to our team's advantage and just generally do what he was good at, damage. He'd get annoyed when someone actually passed him the ball because he knew that wasn't a good fit for his class; but he was still absolutely valuable to our team. That didn't stop him from getting in position for a pass or a score in a pinch of course, but if all went to plan, the idea was that shouldn't really need to happen.

If you're really hell bent on moving the ball, passing is bar none the best way to do it, possible exception made for leap->push->leap. Passing has no cooldown and can cover absolutely obscene distance. And everyone can do it.

Blah blah blah, you are rehashing the same bullshit. YES THERE IS ALWAYS SOMETHING YOU CAN DO, NO MATTER YOUR CLASS, BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN YOU AREN'T LESS EFFECTIVE THAN SOMEONE ELSE. Certain classes are more appropriate for Huttball because all you HAVE to do in Huttball to win is MOVE the ball. You don't need people to burst down the healer when the ball carrier is just going to throw the ball to the jedi/sith who just leaped up to the top level of the map before you kill him. A well coordinated team of leapers/sprinters is UNSTOPPABLE because all they have to do is keep passing the ball and if you don't have YOUR OWN leapers/sprinters you CAN NOT keep up with them. The worst part is that defensive positioning works AGAINST you when facing a team like this, when I was new to Huttball as my Sniper spec'd Smuggler (or whatever the immobile dps based spec was called) I often used to try to just sit on the highground and dish out damage and CC's, but smart enemies will just leap up to you, stun, catch the ball, and you just gave the enemy the best position possible because 3/4 of your team was down on the lower level chasing the guy who just passed the ball. Now the new ball carrier has got 1 maybe 2 fire traps to get past, but you probably don't have anyone behind you if you were up on the top level, except for people who just respawned. You can literally be a detriment to the team.

What are your other options? Go chase down the healer? Doesn't do any good when the ball just changed hands to a different level of the map and your only option to catch up is a 15 second run around the ramps or a random jump on the stupid steam vents. Your team doesn't need you, they need someone who is mobile and can get into good positions quickly or get to the ball carriers quickly, which are abilities only the jedi/sith classes have, which is why they are so superior. Maybe balance changes have changed this in the months since I've played, but thats what Huttball was at release.

For the last fucking time - I'm not trying to say you CAN'T DO ANYTHING USEFUL if you aren't one of these classes. Every class has some kind of CC or knockback which can always be helpful. I'm saying the map layout and objective, and class mechanics make mobile classes superior to others in Huttball, a skilled team with 5-6 leapers/sprinters will always beat an equally skilled team that has only 1 or 2.

 

[darkewaffle]

Anyone with half a brain knows not to enable that kind of chaining by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but even if you do, its not damning if they score fast. If a highly mobile team gets away with the ball it's difficult to stop them without being a team with pulls, true, but the key is adjusting how you play to compensate. Give up the easy point and focus on mid to keep the ball in your possession. They can't score if you don't give them the ball. But it does require you to adjust, and if they're any good they'll be fighting to control mid the whole time as well.

I disagree that matches are won and lost on mobility and that there's nothing a less mobile team can do against a more mobile team. I've played a ton of Huttball and teams full of Sorcs and Sins simply are not strong, they're too easy to kill. Marauders and Juggernauts are kind of in a league of their own given their buffs in 1.2 last I played and both how strong armor is and the number of powerful cooldowns given to them, marauders in particular. But leap is only as good as you let it be, even if you're in a bad spot simply being intelligent about LoS can stymy a warrior.

Because of Pass, I think everyone's got a good base amount of mobility. It's more powerful than leap or sprint in a lot of situations. But more importantly I think movement is only a part of the equation and something you can definitely adjust for. But yes, if you just play normally, it'll let your opponents score demoralizingly quickly.

 

[Dumac]

I guess I did.

So ... you're saying you don't have to buy the game even? You just download it for free too?

Yeah, story parts are completely free.

It is weird, because the singleplayer story sections are the only reasons worth playing the game, yet they are making that part free.

But the crappy MMO parts? They are hoping you'll like those enough to subscribe, despite them being the worst part of the game.

Although I guess they are hoping for microtransaction profit from F2P story people.

 

[orbster556]

The worst part is that defensive positioning works AGAINST you when facing a team like this, when I was new to Huttball as my Sniper spec'd Smuggler (or whatever the immobile dps based spec was called) I often used to try to just sit on the highground and dish out damage and CC's, but smart enemies will just leap up to you, stun, catch the ball, and you just gave the enemy the best position possible because 3/4 of your team was down on the lower level chasing the guy who just passed the ball.

If you are playing as a sharp-shooter gunslinger, then a sentinel/guardian shouldn't be able to leap to you period and even a Shield-spec Vanguard won't be able to do so if you pop Hunker Down (in the absence of Hunker Down they could throw a cryo-grenade to force you out cover and then use Storm). My main is a sentinel and nothing is more frustrating, whether I'm carrying or just looking to get into position, then coming up against a gunslinger/sniper on the upper catwalks. As the class is mDPS, if I can't leap to you to close the gap, I'm just taking charged and aimed shots until I hide or die.

My primary alt is a lvl 43 GS and I think it plays more to the strengths of the class moreso than the other three wzs. The catwalks make it very easy to get separation from people attacking you and there are some pretty good sight-lines when you're DPS'ing. Moreover, the narrowness of the catwalks makes it easy to blast mDPS off and away from you with either the knock-back or an in-close aimed-shot (assuming you took that ability). Maybe you just have to approach things differently to properly appreciate it?

a skilled team with 5-6 leapers/sprinters will always beat an equally skilled team that has only 1 or 2.

Yes and no. Having a some mobility is definitely important -- and, on my sent, I often use leap to 'outrun' the opposition and score -- but it's even more important to control mid in HB; in close HB matches, it is essential to maintain control of mid. If your team fails to control mid, then your team will automatically be starting on the back-foot anytime one of the teams scores or the ball is reset.

And gunslingers/snipers are the *ideal* class to control mid in HB matches.

 

[thespyder]

yeah, but even at free it's not worth the time investment.

it's hard to put a finger on it, but the game doesn't feel smooth. It is a bioware game so is in-line with the "formula" but it is annoying that they haven't tried new story-telling techniques and instead force you to sit still for like 5-10 minutes at a time and watch a conversation.

Um??? YOU Started the thread saying it was "Actually quite good".

 

[micrometers]

Um??? YOU Started the thread saying it was "Actually quite good".

changed my mind at level 7-8. The questing is already annoying and it doesn't have the charm that WOW did.

I'm finding the petty little quests from the villagers to be petty and annoying, especially when I have to listen to them for 5 minutes thank me for helping find their loved ones.

Can't Bioware change their dialogue? Like, Assassin's creed had "cut scenes" where major NPC's talked but you could still walk around while they talked.

I'm finding myself missing the old school MMOs like Asheron's Call. These new ones feel like protracted beat-em-up games.

 

[thespyder]

changed my mind at level 7-8. The questing is already annoying and it doesn't have the charm that WOW did.

I'm finding the petty little quests from the villagers to be petty and annoying, especially when I have to listen to them for 5 minutes thank me for helping find their loved ones.

Can't Bioware change their dialogue? Like, Assassin's creed had "cut scenes" where major NPC's talked but you could still walk around while they talked.

I'm finding myself missing the old school MMOs like Asheron's Call. These new ones feel like protracted beat-em-up games.

would recommend that you learn from this. If you learned that you didn't like it as early as 7-8, probably you should have held off on making the thread a while.

 

[micrometers]

would recommend that you learn from this. If you learned that you didn't like it as early as 7-8, probably you should have held off on making the thread a while.

I can tell you right now that I"m not going to learn any lessons from this.

 

[thespyder]

I can tell you right now that I"m not going to learn any lessons from this.

Then:

 

[Wardawg1001]

Anyone with half a brain knows not to enable that kind of chaining by being in the wrong place at the wrong time, but even if you do, its not damning if they score fast. If a highly mobile team gets away with the ball it's difficult to stop them without being a team with pulls, true, but the key is adjusting how you play to compensate. Give up the easy point and focus on mid to keep the ball in your possession. They can't score if you don't give them the ball. But it does require you to adjust, and if they're any good they'll be fighting to control mid the whole time as well.

I disagree that matches are won and lost on mobility and that there's nothing a less mobile team can do against a more mobile team. I've played a ton of Huttball and teams full of Sorcs and Sins simply are not strong, they're too easy to kill. Marauders and Juggernauts are kind of in a league of their own given their buffs in 1.2 last I played and both how strong armor is and the number of powerful cooldowns given to them, marauders in particular. But leap is only as good as you let it be, even if you're in a bad spot simply being intelligent about LoS can stymy a warrior.

Because of Pass, I think everyone's got a good base amount of mobility. It's more powerful than leap or sprint in a lot of situations. But more importantly I think movement is only a part of the equation and something you can definitely adjust for. But yes, if you just play normally, it'll let your opponents score demoralizingly quickly.

Just because you havea lot of mobility classes doesn't mean you can't control mid or at least have a presence there. Because they are so mobile, you need more people to successfully defend against them because you have to be able to chain cc them and dps them, which often means you have more people defending or chasing after the ball than they have trying to score. Often the most effective way to score is with a small group using their leaps and sprints and good passes to simply bypass the people who can only run around the walkways at normal walking speed, which leaves plenty of people to sit around ready to reclaim the ball.

I'll admit though that balance changes may have changed the dynamics of Huttball, like I said I haven't played in months, I stopped I think about two months after release.

 

[Hacp]

Good single player, until you realize it'll take you how many hours to get past the story.