Star Trek transporters and the internal observer

[manimal]

if they were ever boarded by the borg I would have worf go into a transporter and make a feedback loop by inverting the method scottie did to suspend his animation and literatly keep pumping out Worf clones till they all ripped the borg arms off all the borg.

Assimilate me with no arms assholes!

 

[Childs]

if they were ever boarded by the borg I would have worf go into a transporter and make a feedback loop by inverting the method scottie did to suspend his animation and literatly keep pumping out Worf clones till they all ripped the borg arms off all the borg.

Assimilate me with no arms assholes!

Ward always got his butt kicked. I forget the alien name, but there was a planet whose race was trained to be special forces level guys from birth. One guy went through the Enterprise crew, including Warf, who tried to bushwhack him in the hangars. I still remember Warf saying something like "You're pretty bad ass, almost as good as a Klingon". Then the guy proceeds to kick is ass. hahahaha The only people Warf could beat was other Klingons.

 

[Jeff7]

transporter room is complete waste of space. you can basically transport anyone from anywhere to anywhere so why the need for a transporter room?

What the hell else is O'Brien going to do, other than wait for Bajor to kick the Cardassians out of Terok Nor?




Plenty of things in that show....
"I don't know if I'd trust piloting the ship to a computer," when they had to pilot through an asteroid field full of radiation mines. (It was a TV-density asteroid belt. You could fly through an asteroid belt like ours blindfolded and not encounter anything more than dust, though a piece of dust at 50,000mph could be a problem.)
By the 24th century, that computer should be the most intelligent thing on the ship by a wide margin. A basic gravity-well navigation problem should be no problem.


Health care. Very tiered levels of service. Senior officers get all kinds of extraordinary measures. Ensigns get a tricorder wave or a quick pulse check.
"I'm not dead!"


Flat panels for controls. Oh god....touchscreens everywhere.

...
And why wouldn't Star Fleet keep a copy of all officers on file in the computer and merely reconstitute the dead? Picard dies fighting the Borg? No biggie, just rematerialize him from a backup.

Which they sort of did in one episode.
They always made a point throughout the show to make the human mind all special and such - no computer could possibly store or duplicate it.
Well, except for that one time...

^^
Star Trek never was and never was meant to be hard scifi. All their technologies are either there to set the tone of the setting or they're plot devices.

See also: Reed Richards Is Useless

Something I read about the original series was that Gene Roddenberry wanted something kind of high-brow.

The TV executives wanted a western in space.



"Dumb it down until you no longer feel comfortable using words with more than two syllables."

 

[HN]

Ward always got his butt kicked. I forget the alien name, but there was a planet whose race was trained to be special forces level guys from birth. One guy went through the Enterprise crew, including Warf, who tried to bushwhack him in the hangars. I still remember Warf saying something like "You're pretty bad ass, almost as good as a Klingon". Then the guy proceeds to kick is ass. hahahaha The only people Warf could beat was other Klingons.

he took on a whole bunch of jem hadar

 

[Childs]

he took on a whole bunch of jem hadar

I didn't watch DS9 past the first season. That Bajorian (sp?) chick, and the struggle for independance was somewhat off putting. I think even Riker beat Warf 1v1. Granted, ambo-jitsu is some serious stuff, but gimme a break. I can't be sure, but didn't Riker kick so much Klingon ass they made him in charge of a Klingon ship? Worf should be the toughest dude on the Enterprise, besides Data, but he's really just a punching bag.

 

[Ruptga]

Something I read about the original series was that Gene Roddenberry wanted something kind of high-brow.

I believe that's right, but his idea of high-brow was more philosophical and less technical.

 

[pete6032]

They could also just shoot the Borg with transponders and then beam them out into space if they ever boarded the ship.

 

[Braznor]

From what I understand, the transporter beams the actual body including the original matter/energy composing the person from one location to another. The information is just converted from one form to another and back to the original form again.

So the person who is conscious before the transportation and the person who is conscious after the transportation is still the same person in the same body. So therefore his internal sense of consciousness is not disrupted before and after the incident.

This also might be the reason why one cannot make clones out of previously transported people. The transporter doesn't merely breakdown a person atom by atom and transformation to another location to recreate the combination. It transports the actual entire body between locations, just in the form of a temporary beam.

 

[Ruptga]

From what I understand, the transporter beams the actual body including the original matter/energy composing the person from one location to another. The information is just converted from one form to another and back to the original form again.

So the person who is conscious before the transportation and the person who is conscious after the transportation is still the same person in the same body. So therefore his internal sense of consciousness is not disrupted before and after the incident.

This also might be the reason why one cannot make clones out of previously transported people. The transporter doesn't merely breakdown a person atom by atom and transformation to another location to recreate the combination. It transports the actual entire body between locations, just in the form of a temporary beam.

Yeah, but...

 

[Braznor]

Yeah, but...

Transporter accidents don't count and neither does consistency or logic in Star Trek!

 

[tommo123]

1 - they did the whole "backup copy" thing with picard and used it to roll his body back to the way it was in a strand of DNA from his hair or something. he also lost his memories since the pattern in the system was from days earlier or something.

2 - riker was cloned/split in 2 by a transporter accident.

3 - DS9 sidestepped the whole original/copy thing by having consciousness having to be stored separetly at "the quantum level". minds stored in the stations memory *using most of it) and the patters in the holosuite. then put them back together again.

3 - leads to Asgard (from stargate) tech of putting an old persons mind in a younger copy of their own bodies. trek now has easy immortality for everyone

 

[OverVolt]

..

 

[tommo123]

25k mile or so range limit iirc

 

[zinfamous]

Why are you bringing up points discussed to death ever since the concept of teleporters was even created in the first place

because weed

 

[Jeff7]

1 - they did the whole "backup copy" thing with picard and used it to roll his body back to the way it was in a strand of DNA from his hair or something. he also lost his memories since the pattern in the system was from days earlier or something.

2 - riker was cloned/split in 2 by a transporter accident.

3 - DS9 sidestepped the whole original/copy thing by having consciousness having to be stored separetly at "the quantum level". minds stored in the stations memory *using most of it) and the patters in the holosuite. then put them back together again.

3 - leads to Asgard (from stargate) tech of putting an old persons mind in a younger copy of their own bodies. trek now has easy immortality for everyone

In Stargate, if the Goa'uld could store an Asgard mind in their computers, and humans were given Asgard technology....hell, a human mind should fit comfortably on one of their USB thumbdrives, along with 2 million years of MP3s.

At that point, you should be able to make hourly backups.

 

[T9D]

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[T9D]

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[T9D]

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[ViRGE]

Ward always got his butt kicked. I forget the alien name, but there was a planet whose race was trained to be special forces level guys from birth. One guy went through the Enterprise crew, including Warf, who tried to bushwhack him in the hangars. I still remember Warf saying something like "You're pretty bad ass, almost as good as a Klingon". Then the guy proceeds to kick is ass. hahahaha The only people Warf could beat was other Klingons.

There's even a TV Trope for it: The Worf Effect.

Want a quick way to show how dangerous one of your unknown characters is? Simple, make him do well or win in a fight with a character that the audience already knows is tough. This establishes him as willing to fight and marks him as sufficiently dangerous.

 

[Markbnj]

I always thought a whole movie could be based on this concept. Everyone in the future is being transported around. And the Government says it's safe. Only one person figures it out that each time the person is actually killed and a clone is made. And the truth has been hidden. Perhaps even some DNA slowly get's damaged or changed over time. The only real people anymore are a few paranoid skeptics. And they have to fight to get others to see it. But the rest of the world thinks they are crazy.

I've thought about this as the basis for a story. The hard thing is how can the clone detect the death of the original? Every person who ever entered the transporter ceased to exist and a new self-aware copy was created, but the copy was perfect and had all the memories of the original right up to the moment of stepping into the transporter, so how do you prove that the original ceased to exist?

One thing that occurred to me is you can come at it from the other direction: a glitch causes both copies to survive, in which case you would essentially have proof it is a copying process, not a translation of an object from one place to another. And you'd also have a bunch of interesting legal problems to deal with.

 

[mmntech]

if they were ever boarded by the borg I would have worf go into a transporter and make a feedback loop by inverting the method scottie did to suspend his animation and literatly keep pumping out Worf clones till they all ripped the borg arms off all the borg.

Assimilate me with no arms assholes!

What are you going to do with all those Worfs after the fight? I can't see Picard just throwing them out the airlock.

 

[HN]

There's even a TV Trope for it: The Worf Effect.

is there a trope for worf keeps getting denied?

 

[manimal]

What are you going to do with all those Worfs after the fight? I can't see Picard just throwing them out the airlock.

many would of course die but the rest can be sent to Risa to pleasure the housewives

 

[SagaLore]

"You" is the quantum state of all the particles that make up your body and electrical interactions of nerve cells and neurons. I assume that the stream maintains this state and rebuilds it identically.

 

[NikolaeVarius]

"You" is the quantum state of all the particles that make up your body and electrical interactions of nerve cells and neurons. I assume that the stream maintains this state and rebuilds it identically.

Have fun with the Uncertainty Principal.