Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

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rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
So the latest patch nerfed the hell out of my Aurora LN....dropping the whiskers to S1 guns (from S2) and the wings to S2 (from S3).

But they didn't stop there. They went ahead and buggered the wing mounts....they're completely gone.

So all we have is two S1 guns and four missiles. For the slowest ship in the game. Yeah, they should have also updated the skin to be a big, huge bullseye......
 

Harabec

Golden Member
Oct 15, 2005
1,369
1
81
Come on dude, it is barely in alpha.
Don't post like it is WoW on patch #3450893754.7

Play and give feedback :)
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
Come on dude, it is barely in alpha.
Don't post like it is WoW on patch #3450893754.7

Play and give feedback :)

I have played and given the same feedback in the CIG forums. It just seems very strange to me that CIG would nerf the Auroras and then remove the LN wing mounts completely. It appears they didn't test reducing the wings from S3 to S2 or they would have noticed that the wing mount change wasn't working correctly.....they're completely gone!

Why go through the effort of nerfing something and then not test it before release?

I guess I just expected a little more organization than the "let's throw sh*t at the wall see what sticks" approach.

I mean, this isn't pre-alpha anymore. We're now Alpha 1.1.1!
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
The FPS stance information was pretty neat.

From the way it sounds, it uses a far more realistic mechanic than what you typically see in FPS (especially in reference to the stance where you are walking with weapon just below ADS and not in the hip / running position.

I'm glad to see they're taking the FPS mechanics this seriously. This game isn't just going to be a "flying hud" simulator like a lot of space sims. They seem to be putting as much focus on the FP interaction as they are on ship-based flying and combat.

Stoked about the FPS module release.

Noticed they changed the lighting in the Revel and York hangar. I actually kind of miss the clinical lighting of the previous iteration, but everybody on the RSI forum loves the warm tones. It looks like they might have just slightly increased the fog level (not sure that's what they did, but I spent quite a bit of time mucking with CryEngine, and I recognize that "look" and how to get it), which I'm never a fan of in indoor environments, but meh....things change...just an observation.
 
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Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,100
467
126
I have played and given the same feedback in the CIG forums. It just seems very strange to me that CIG would nerf the Auroras and then remove the LN wing mounts completely. It appears they didn't test reducing the wings from S3 to S2 or they would have noticed that the wing mount change wasn't working correctly.....they're completely gone!

Why go through the effort of nerfing something and then not test it before release?

I guess I just expected a little more organization than the "let's throw sh*t at the wall see what sticks" approach.

I mean, this isn't pre-alpha anymore. We're now Alpha 1.1.1!

Looks more like someone who has never played an Alpha game to me... In Alpha, things break. More importantly, in Alpha, things that are changed are more likely to be broken as well. Again, this isn't a release anymore than simply getting end users the latest "stable" build branch. And please note that "stable" is in quotes because it simply means it compiles and passes automated crash testing. As an Alpha tester, you are the one who is designated to find and report things that broke, like just what you mentioned, that S2 wing mounts are no longer functioning on a Aurora LN....

Also, don't take this change as a "nerf". A new mount system was just implemented which finalizes the gun/weapon/equipment sizes based on physical model dimensions so that everything actually fits on the different ship models interchangeably (i.e. every size 1 gun will fit on all ships that have a size 1 or larger mount, all size 2 guns will fit on all ships that have a size 2 or larger mount). It is all about the ship model's physical dimensions that dictate if it can fit a weapon/equipment of a particular size. All ship's are currently having their mounts resized to fit the new mount system requirements.
 
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JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,947
126
As an Alpha tester, you are the one who is designated to find and report things that broke, like just what you mentioned, that S2 wing mounts are no longer functioning on a Aurora LN....


That sounds like a job. Do they give people free ships or something to do this?
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,100
467
126
That sounds like a job. Do they give people free ships or something to do this?

Your "pay" is getting access to the game before everyone else, and having a chance to give meaningful feedback which is used to change the game towards something you find more enjoyable, thus making the game more like how you want the game to be at a time when such changes can be made. It is a lot easier to scrap a system early in development when there are only a few hundred hours of work involved then after release when you have put thousands of more hours working on components that interact with that system and thousands more on polishing it, only to have to realize that it doesn't work too well in actual gameplay and need to scrap it due to all the negative feedback. Much better to find out early, hence the alpha.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
That sounds like a job. Do they give people free ships or something to do this?

Enjoy buying unreleased software for early access. Aka, paying to be a play tester.

That what everyone buying SC has done - paid to test their game for them.
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,456
61
101
Enjoy buying unreleased software for early access. Aka, paying to be a play tester.

That what everyone buying SC has done - paid to test their game for them.
Everyone who has willingly paid to join this alpha and help fund the game understands this. How some people are being so purposely obtuse and thick headed as to not understand this is strange.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
Looks more like someone who has never played an Alpha game to me... In Alpha, things break. More importantly, in Alpha, things that are changed are more likely to be broken as well. Again, this isn't a release anymore than simply getting end users the latest "stable" build branch. And please note that "stable" is in quotes because it simply means it compiles and passes automated crash testing. As an Alpha tester, you are the one who is designated to find and report things that broke, like just what you mentioned, that S2 wing mounts are no longer functioning on a Aurora LN....

Also, don't take this change as a "nerf". A new mount system was just implemented which finalizes the gun/weapon/equipment sizes based on physical model dimensions so that everything actually fits on the different ship models interchangeably (i.e. every size 1 gun will fit on all ships that have a size 1 or larger mount, all size 2 guns will fit on all ships that have a size 2 or larger mount). It is all about the ship model's physical dimensions that dictate if it can fit a weapon/equipment of a particular size. All ship's are currently having their mounts resized to fit the new mount system requirements.

I'm guilty as charged. This is my first Alpha experience. I don't mind bugs and fully expect them. Like two patches ago when the wing mounts in my Aurora LN would overheat (permanently) after 2-3 shots.

THAT was a bug.

Wing mounts completely disappearing from the ship (after purposely being tweaked)? That's a bug on a completely different level and not something I expected.

How are we supposed to test that the new size 2 wing mounts work when they don't even exist on our ships?

I purchased the Aurora LN in May 2014 specifically because the spec sheet listed it as having 8 thrusters instead of 6 for the other Auroras. More thrusters = more maneuverability. Good for me since I don't want to fight....I want to get the hell out of fights.

Six months later that was quietly changed to 8 thrusters for all variants. No explanation.

Although annoyed that I made a pledge decision based upon a misstatement, I figured: oh well stuff happens in an alpha. At least I have S2 guns in the whiskers and S3 guns in wings. Those should at least help me defend myself for a bit.

Fast forward to last week: those S2 guns in the whiskers? Another spec sheet misstatement. They're really S1s. Those S3 guns in the wings? Another spec sheet misstatement....they're really.....S2 guns...or they might be if they existed but they don't...they're gone.

The spec sheet is completely unreliable for Auroras. Note how the spec sheet shows all Auroras come WITH miniboxes for cargo (except the CL which gets the big box). Guess what? Another misstatement.

Lots of miscommunication between the design and marketing teams at CIG apparently. This is normal for an alpha stage game?

Alpha or not, I think every LN owner has some justification to be frustrated at the moment.
 

Milkman95

Senior member
Feb 19, 2001
200
0
71
www.mhoc.net
... Six months later that was quietly changed to 8 thrusters for all variants. No explanation.

Although annoyed that I made a pledge decision based upon a misstatement, I figured: oh well stuff happens in an alpha. At least I have S2 guns in the whiskers and S3 guns in wings. Those should at least help me defend myself for a bit.

Fast forward to last week: those S2 guns in the whiskers? Another spec sheet misstatement. They're really S1s. Those S3 guns in the wings? Another spec sheet misstatement....they're really.....S2 guns...or they might be if they existed but they don't...they're gone.

The spec sheet is completely unreliable for Auroras. Note how the spec sheet shows all Auroras come WITH miniboxes for cargo (except the CL which gets the big box). Guess what? Another misstatement.

Lots of miscommunication between the design and marketing teams at CIG apparently. This is normal for an alpha stage game?

Alpha or not, I think every LN owner has some justification to be frustrated at the moment.

Few comments... As said from the very beginning of the funding drive the ships specs will change as things develop. Sometimes for balance reasons, sometimes for ease of programing/modeling reasons, sometimes because a change in direction. The number of thrusters did change, however those that had more thrusters also have different/better thrusters. This hopefully has the same effect of those ships being more maneuverable. FYI this change was made in early 2013.

Cargo.. i have not seen anything on changing the base cargo of the ships in terms of removing the mini boxes. The "unit of measure" for those boxes has changed, but they have for everything and seems to still be on the same scale. 5 cargo units turned into 16 across the board (with minor adjustments on some of the larger cargo haulers).

Weapon points have recently undergone a large shift. They are changing the way they are using hard points and also changed the system utilizing them. If you do not like it, DO voice your opinion on the forums in a reasonable well thought out manor and they may change again before this is all over.

All these types of changes are VERY normal for a game being developed. You just haven't seen things like this before, nor have people put money down on something that is so subject to change before.

Personally, i like what they have done. Things have been changing, and not always to my benefit, with the ships i have. However for the most part the 'spirit' of what i was going for remains the same. Many things that many people have complained about HAVE been adjusted.

Keep voicing your opinion on their forums not that you don't like something but WHY and what they should do to fix it. They may just change their minds again.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
Cargo.. i have not seen anything on changing the base cargo of the ships in terms of removing the mini boxes. The "unit of measure" for those boxes has changed, but they have for everything and seems to still be on the same scale. 5 cargo units turned into 16 across the board (with minor adjustments on some of the larger cargo haulers).

If you look up the Galactic Guide piece on the Stor-all cargo boxes, there is a sentence in there that says the boxes are rented and the rent is included in the price of the cargo: "where do Stor-All containers come from? Stor-All containers are the odd product that can appear throughout every hangar, dockyard and factory floor in known space without actually having a clear owner. The perhaps surprising answer is that every Stor-All container is actually a rental unit. Containers are rented for a small fee when goods are approved for off-world shipping; this fee is nearly always taken into account as part of the price of the goods themselves."

Thus there is no ownership of the mini-box or big-box. They're rented.

As such, listing that the mini-box is included with the Aurora is an apparent misstatement. If you look at the ship spec page and expand "Additional" you'll see that the Auroras are the only ships that have anything listed on the Storage line: "1 x Mini". Most people interpret that to mean the Auroras come with a mini-box. Side note: the FC7 Hornet has 1xBig Box (Model H) listed on the "Other" line....guess they're not getting those either.....

But the lore piece appears to conflict with that (and apparently there are dev comments confirming that although I've never seen them).
 

Kelvrick

Lifer
Feb 14, 2001
18,422
5
81
I think all of these changes are actually decently tame for being an alpha. Even in BETA testing, I've had bigger changes happen to me. Of course, I paid my ~$50 so I can start playing now, with whatever they decide to give me access to or I can get to work IN ADDITION to the finished game later on. Anyone analyzing ships and spending money should keep that in mind. You're paying for what you get in the final game. Whatever you have access to now is just whatever form they decide.

Some may have been enthusiastic in their recommendations, but nobody forced you to buy in.
 
Feb 4, 2009
35,287
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Disclaimer I bought in from the beginning
Lets all establish that the funding model is different however its essentially a paid alpha/beta
Everyone's feedback is not going to be evaluated or even looked at
That ship packages are not that expensive
LTI will have some value but it doesn't appear to be game changing value
Some of the preorder ships are outrageously over priced
The game will be a big scale game, it seems like a real living world
System specs will be very high
Some people have unreasonable expectations and will undoubtedly complain when its released
Overall the game looks promising

Can we all agree to get along?
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
Enjoy buying unreleased software for early access. Aka, paying to be a play tester.

That what everyone buying SC has done - paid to test their game for them.


What do you mean? When you buy early access, you get the full game upon release. Pay now or pay then.

In the meantime, I've had hours of fun and really enjoyed messing with the modules. Woe is me.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
Everyone who has willingly paid to join this alpha and help fund the game understands this. How some people are being so purposely obtuse and thick headed as to not understand this is strange.

Don't be mean.

I'm not being mean. I'm saying my view on early access games like this. They're using their customers as the testers, instead of employing proper testers. Maybe some people like this - personally, I don't. (and I think giving early access years in advance of the release just encourages poor planning since you're focusing on making a game playable early, as opposed to finishing things in a logical fashion and coming to market in a reasonable timeframe.)

Hey, if you enjoy what you've gotten for it, fine. Me, I'll wait until the game is released to think about spending money on it. I work on in-progress software daily and have zero tolerance for it out of work.
 

chimaxi83

Diamond Member
May 18, 2003
5,456
61
101
I'm not being mean. I'm saying my view on early access games like this. They're using their customers as the testers, instead of employing proper testers. Maybe some people like this - personally, I don't. (and I think giving early access years in advance of the release just encourages poor planning since you're focusing on making a game playable early, as opposed to finishing things in a logical fashion and coming to market in a reasonable timeframe.)

Hey, if you enjoy what you've gotten for it, fine. Me, I'll wait until the game is released to think about spending money on it. I work on in-progress software daily and have zero tolerance for it out of work.

Dude, it's a freaking GAME. It's not like we're paying to test an OS, or software of any "importance". Not only that, but it's a game in an abandoned genre that tons of nerds have been drooling over and only dreaming about for a long time. It's here now (in rough form, but still). Please excuse tons of nerds for spending a little bit of money on it.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
Dude, it's a freaking GAME. It's not like we're paying to test an OS, or software of any "importance". Not only that, but it's a game in an abandoned genre that tons of nerds have been drooling over and only dreaming about for a long time. It's here now (in rough form, but still). Please excuse tons of nerds for spending a little bit of money on it.

Did I just get called a nerd? Man, I'm one of the cool kids. :)
 

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
81
Heads up for those of you looking for cargo ships

The MISC Hull Series will be on sale w/ LTI for a week starting Friday April 24th.
Pricing is as follows:

Hull A - $60 USD
Hull B - $90 USD
Hull C - $200 USD
Hull D - $350 USD
Hull E - $550 USD

I'll bump this once the actual sale/ship info is live.