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Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

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[DHT]Osiris

Diamond Member
Dec 15, 2015
9,362
5,499
146
DNF failed because George Broussard couldn't make a decision and stick with it.
The hell are you talking about? DNF was originally going to be released using what, a modified Q2 engine? It was on the dev table for a year or two before 3D Realms abandoned the project and it sat as an unused IP for like a decade. Nobody was 'working' on anything, and odds are very good it had an extremely light dev team even in its infancy. I still have the PC Gamer rag with the old version of the game in it, where they were talking up how far they were and how soon it was to be announced. All garbage, really. Gearbox/2K got it and pushed out a generic alien shooter with tits, and that's the resounding legacy of one of the more advanced shooters of its time (DN3D).

There's no comparison whatsoever to SC, which is an original IP, crowd-funded, with a completely open development cycle.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
There's no uninstaller for the actual game, nor it is anywhere in the Add/Remove Programs area. I googled around and found out that you need to delete the Cloud Imperium Games folder manually.

See, the thing is, there is not an actual game yet. There is just alpha code. Once there is a game to install, I'm confident the devs will worry about incorporating an more robust uninstaller. But for now, it's not a priority. Most testers aren't that concerned with uninstallers.....they know what they're getting into......kinda comes with the territory of testing alpha code.
 

Malibutomi

Member
Sep 25, 2016
32
6
16
That's JUST the launcher. Uninstall it and see what it does. Go ahead, I'll wait.

Figured out that it leaves a 30gb folder with the game code yet?
From the characters you typed you could have pressed the DEL button lots of times on that folder. I cannot understand why this is such a HUGE problem. Many programs missing the uninstaller, i go and delete them in a few seconds, maybe run cclaner on the registry, job done.
As it was above pointed out, its in development, this is not crucial at the moment.
 
Feb 4, 2009
31,483
11,879
136
From the characters you typed you could have pressed the DEL button lots of times on that folder. I cannot understand why this is such a HUGE problem. Many programs missing the uninstaller, i go and delete them in a few seconds, maybe run cclaner on the registry, job done.
As it was above pointed out, its in development, this is not crucial at the moment.
Join the AT Org Malibtomi & Raduque, you can be a member of multiple org is Star Citizen. We are a casual group and accept all AT Members

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/orgs/OLDSBAMENT

When you join just post your Star Citizen name in this thread so we know who you are and what ships you have so we can all chat about it.

*This invite is open to ALL AT MEMBERS*
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91

Likely a very relevant Bugsmashers episode to some of you here. Deals with the character model getting out of sync with the ship and being offset.
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,122
436
136
DNF failed because George Broussard couldn't make a decision and stick with it. Chris Roberts is doing the exact same thing.
I wouldn't say it's exactly the same thing... but it sure does look like it. It's very odd that people don't know Duke's history on this board.. even more so with the people in this thread. You'd think someone would go look up what happened with DNF before saying it's not at all close to SC... and again, it's only been what? 5 years? Duke went 12.. I really really hope CS doesn't go that long. They are exactly the same in that they've both blew the original time frames for release and not by a little.

You'd be right if that analysis was correct. But it's not.

DNF is a failed game that was pushed from studio to studio like a bastard child. The budget, support, team, technology, and organization is nothing like Star Citizen's. I could write for pages about how different the situations are.

What fads are you talking about? VR is not a 'fad'. Crytek, whom CIG sourced their engine from, is balls deep into VR with their engine. So even if they were focusing on VR support right now, which CIG isn't, it would be understandable. Dude.. dogfighting in my avenger in VR? Sign me the hell up!

CIG has modified and molded their strategy over time to adapt to massive changes in their environment. $100M+ more in funding than they originally asked for? Check. A bunch of Crytek engineers quitting Crytek and joining their team? Check. Having the money to buy the engine code outright so they could do what they wanted with it? Check.

Lots of things changed from when Chris Roberts originally pitched the game. In hindsight, it's clear that adapting their strategy was the best course to take.
That's a silly statement. Bring some facts to the table that you can verify with links so that you can validate that claim. CR has likely made 100,000+ decisions with this project. Which decision are you speaking of?
VR is a fad.. it's like 3D TVs.. fun to look at, but not everyone's on board with it. It's the current holy grail of games, but there's no sign it'll last long.. hell it's barely out there now. If somehow it's the way most people play games in 5 years then I'll agree.. but as of now, to me it's like the kinnect.. interesting theory and I've seen how it can be fun, but I doubt I'd do major gaming time on it.

As for DNF and the links you want.. here's one.

Link to an article talking about the problems getting duke out..

Reading that article there are some very simliar things going on. It's really really odd that you say " I could write for pages about how different the situations are." and don't seem to know the saga of DNF... such as..

From the link said:
He’d see a new game with a flashy graphics technique and demand the effect be incorporated into Duke Nukem Forever.
Again, I'm not saying this is exactly what's happening with CR as I'm not in the offices buuuut, from the Kotaku article that kicked this whole convo on (and every other article I've seen on this subject now), it sure sounds like it. They haven't had the engine changes that DNF had, but they have rewritten so much of it that I'm not sure it should be called the Crytek Engine anymore.. at the least they should call it Crytek: SC Edition Engine. Every single article has also said that CR adds stuff he sees (and sometimes doesn't see) in other things. The stuff may be set now (I haven't seen where they said everything was locked in and no more adding) but even you can't deny that CR has added a ton of stuff after he originally pitched the game. Note I didn't say it was in all cases a bad thing.. just every article sites the delays because he keeps adding things. (I could however go back to the bad leader thing here and talk about how some of the things he's done in this topic apply) Broussard did that same thing.. over and over again..

The hell are you talking about? DNF was originally going to be released using what, a modified Q2 engine? It was on the dev table for a year or two before 3D Realms abandoned the project and it sat as an unused IP for like a decade. Nobody was 'working' on anything, and odds are very good it had an extremely light dev team even in its infancy. I still have the PC Gamer rag with the old version of the game in it, where they were talking up how far they were and how soon it was to be announced. All garbage, really. Gearbox/2K got it and pushed out a generic alien shooter with tits, and that's the resounding legacy of one of the more advanced shooters of its time (DN3D).

There's no comparison whatsoever to SC, which is an original IP, crowd-funded, with a completely open development cycle.
It was in dev for over a decade. It was never just sitting there for 3D Realms. It just suffered from a leader that didn't want anyone to say another game had better features. There's a better link to the entire saga that I'm unable to find right now. Later, when I have more time I'll attempt to find it. It goes into more detail about how Broussard would hear a rumor that another game was trying something (like layering outfits) and derail the game devs they were working on to fit that in.

You are right about the less people workign on it, there wasn't the team taht SC has. It's also not to say this game will take a decade to come out, nor is there any reason it should as long as those people that have sunk money into it are alright with it.

Yet the truth is, Broussard’s financial freedom had cut him off from all discipline. He could delay making the tough calls, seemingly forever.
This does seem to be an issue with CR. IF he had someone telling him they needed to release to be profitable he might back off some of the stuff he has added over the years.. if that's a good thing or not, it's up to the person putting the money in. I do think though, it's like DNF in that, without that hunger people lose scope and schedule.
 

renz20003

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2011
2,674
593
136
I wouldn't say it's exactly the same thing... but it sure does look like it. It's very odd that people don't know Duke's history on this board.. even more so with the people in this thread. You'd think someone would go look up what happened with DNF before saying it's not at all close to SC... and again, it's only been what? 5 years? Duke went 12.. I really really hope CS doesn't go that long. They are exactly the same in that they've both blew the original time frames for release and not by a little.





VR is a fad.. it's like 3D TVs.. fun to look at, but not everyone's on board with it. It's the current holy grail of games, but there's no sign it'll last long.. hell it's barely out there now. If somehow it's the way most people play games in 5 years then I'll agree.. but as of now, to me it's like the kinnect.. interesting theory and I've seen how it can be fun, but I doubt I'd do major gaming time on it.

As for DNF and the links you want.. here's one.

Link to an article talking about the problems getting duke out..

Reading that article there are some very simliar things going on. It's really really odd that you say " I could write for pages about how different the situations are." and don't seem to know the saga of DNF... such as..



Again, I'm not saying this is exactly what's happening with CR as I'm not in the offices buuuut, from the Kotaku article that kicked this whole convo on (and every other article I've seen on this subject now), it sure sounds like it. They haven't had the engine changes that DNF had, but they have rewritten so much of it that I'm not sure it should be called the Crytek Engine anymore.. at the least they should call it Crytek: SC Edition Engine. Every single article has also said that CR adds stuff he sees (and sometimes doesn't see) in other things. The stuff may be set now (I haven't seen where they said everything was locked in and no more adding) but even you can't deny that CR has added a ton of stuff after he originally pitched the game. Note I didn't say it was in all cases a bad thing.. just every article sites the delays because he keeps adding things. (I could however go back to the bad leader thing here and talk about how some of the things he's done in this topic apply) Broussard did that same thing.. over and over again..



It was in dev for over a decade. It was never just sitting there for 3D Realms. It just suffered from a leader that didn't want anyone to say another game had better features. There's a better link to the entire saga that I'm unable to find right now. Later, when I have more time I'll attempt to find it. It goes into more detail about how Broussard would hear a rumor that another game was trying something (like layering outfits) and derail the game devs they were working on to fit that in.

You are right about the less people workign on it, there wasn't the team taht SC has. It's also not to say this game will take a decade to come out, nor is there any reason it should as long as those people that have sunk money into it are alright with it.



This does seem to be an issue with CR. IF he had someone telling him they needed to release to be profitable he might back off some of the stuff he has added over the years.. if that's a good thing or not, it's up to the person putting the money in. I do think though, it's like DNF in that, without that hunger people lose scope and schedule.
I agree with you.

I don't want this game to be a flop, I want it to be everything it claims.

But by the same token 120 million dollars and 4 game studios should have more to show.

How much does it cost to get access too?
 
Last edited:

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
they have rewritten so much of it that I'm not sure it should be called the Crytek Engine anymore.. at the least they should call it Crytek: SC Edition Engine.
They call it StarEngine now. It started out with the community, but apparently it's been adopted by CIG. There's also been talk that when SC is done they might license it to other studios. An out of the box engine that can do the graphics of CryEngine but supports entire life scale solar systems and advanced net code with a large library of content creation tools? Lots of studios would say "yes please."

How much does it cost to get access too?
$45 for one game (Squadron 42 single player or the Star Citizen MMO) or you can get both for $60.

Also, where is five studios coming from? Granted, they have four, but lets not inflate things.
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
They call it StarEngine now. It started out with the community, but apparently it's been adopted by CIG. There's also been talk that when SC is done they might license it to other studios. An out of the box engine that can do the graphics of CryEngine but supports entire life scale solar systems and advanced net code with a large library of content creation tools? Lots of studios would say "yes please."
I think that's actually a very viable income option for CIG with the amount of resources they've dumped into it. I don't know the level of ownership they have over that engine, though. But by the time they get done with it....a CryEngine variant that can handle everything from SP to MMO, static to massive procedural, 64-bit object precision.....I would think the level of interest would be high. At that note, even contracting their studios for other game projects. They've already proven they have some talent with profound skillsets across all the dev fields, and with the content toolsets they've developed along the way, I think it would be a very attractive option for projects that don't want to spin up a studio to get a game going.
 

clamum

Lifer
Feb 13, 2003
26,225
384
126
I finally got the $60 package for this. I've seen little video clips of it over time and it looks pretty cool to me right now, and it's only in alpha, so I think it could really be something special in the end. I can think of a hell of a lot of worse way(s) to spend $60, too.

Anyway, I was wondering if there's any decent setup videos or guides you guys recommend. I have a little experience with Elite: Dangerous and for that had found a YouTube video that went over controller setup that really made the game more enjoyable and easier to setup for me. So I was hoping there would be something similar for Star Citizen. I have a T-Flight HOTAS joystick/throttle and intend on using that or keyboard+mouse (I'm not getting a dual-joystick setup). I also have TrackIR which I'm assuming is recommended too.

Thanks for any newbie tips/resources!
 

Raduque

Lifer
Aug 22, 2004
13,134
135
106
Join the AT Org Malibtomi & Raduque, you can be a member of multiple org is Star Citizen. We are a casual group and accept all AT Members
Thank you, but I'm gonna pass. From the little I saw of this game, I'm not interested in it till there's a polished AAA-level single player game.

If I'm doing internet space ships, I'll go back to Eve Online.
 

Malibutomi

Member
Sep 25, 2016
32
6
16
I wouldn't say it's exactly the same thing... but it sure does look like it. It's very odd that people don't know Duke's history on this board.. even more so with the people in this thread. You'd think someone would go look up what happened with DNF before saying it's not at all close to SC... and again, it's only been what? 5 years? Duke went 12.. I really really hope CS doesn't go that long. They are exactly the same in that they've both blew the original time frames for release and not by a little.





VR is a fad.. it's like 3D TVs.. fun to look at, but not everyone's on board with it. It's the current holy grail of games, but there's no sign it'll last long.. hell it's barely out there now. If somehow it's the way most people play games in 5 years then I'll agree.. but as of now, to me it's like the kinnect.. interesting theory and I've seen how it can be fun, but I doubt I'd do major gaming time on it.

As for DNF and the links you want.. here's one.

Link to an article talking about the problems getting duke out..

Reading that article there are some very simliar things going on. It's really really odd that you say " I could write for pages about how different the situations are." and don't seem to know the saga of DNF... such as..



Again, I'm not saying this is exactly what's happening with CR as I'm not in the offices buuuut, from the Kotaku article that kicked this whole convo on (and every other article I've seen on this subject now), it sure sounds like it. They haven't had the engine changes that DNF had, but they have rewritten so much of it that I'm not sure it should be called the Crytek Engine anymore.. at the least they should call it Crytek: SC Edition Engine. Every single article has also said that CR adds stuff he sees (and sometimes doesn't see) in other things. The stuff may be set now (I haven't seen where they said everything was locked in and no more adding) but even you can't deny that CR has added a ton of stuff after he originally pitched the game. Note I didn't say it was in all cases a bad thing.. just every article sites the delays because he keeps adding things. (I could however go back to the bad leader thing here and talk about how some of the things he's done in this topic apply) Broussard did that same thing.. over and over again..



It was in dev for over a decade. It was never just sitting there for 3D Realms. It just suffered from a leader that didn't want anyone to say another game had better features. There's a better link to the entire saga that I'm unable to find right now. Later, when I have more time I'll attempt to find it. It goes into more detail about how Broussard would hear a rumor that another game was trying something (like layering outfits) and derail the game devs they were working on to fit that in.

You are right about the less people workign on it, there wasn't the team taht SC has. It's also not to say this game will take a decade to come out, nor is there any reason it should as long as those people that have sunk money into it are alright with it.



This does seem to be an issue with CR. IF he had someone telling him they needed to release to be profitable he might back off some of the stuff he has added over the years.. if that's a good thing or not, it's up to the person putting the money in. I do think though, it's like DNF in that, without that hunger people lose scope and schedule.
In short:
Yes they had to rewrite the engine, because there is no engine in the industry thet can support an SC like game (64 bit precision, instance in instance in instance - like you on a space scooter in a ship in the world map). It wouldn't take less time to make a ground up engine either. Yes they don't call it Cryengine they call it Star Engine.

CR stated numerous time this year, that they set the minimum what should becin the release, and they will add features after that.

Again the criticism comes from lack of knowledge about the topic. In your defense most of the articles you are reading does the same. Half assed 1 hour read about the topic, then write an article about it.
Whereas someone who follows the development knows that most of yhe critics points are not true (were true 1.5 years ago, but outdated now).

Since CIG finished tge rewriting of the engine and tools, finalizing the pipelines the development is running at nice speed.
 

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,407
44
91
I finally got the $60 package for this. I've seen little video clips of it over time and it looks pretty cool to me right now, and it's only in alpha, so I think it could really be something special in the end. I can think of a hell of a lot of worse way(s) to spend $60, too.

Anyway, I was wondering if there's any decent setup videos or guides you guys recommend. I have a little experience with Elite: Dangerous and for that had found a YouTube video that went over controller setup that really made the game more enjoyable and easier to setup for me. So I was hoping there would be something similar for Star Citizen. I have a T-Flight HOTAS joystick/throttle and intend on using that or keyboard+mouse (I'm not getting a dual-joystick setup). I also have TrackIR which I'm assuming is recommended too.

Thanks for any newbie tips/resources!
Which $60 package did you get?


You set up your axis and buttons from Options-Keybinding. Select Joystick/HOTAS on the second row and then Advanced Controls Customization.

For joystick bind yaw to X axis and pitch to Y axis. Bind roll to twist.

When you bind to an axis, bind for instance Pitch, not Pitch Up and Pitch Down.

When you bind to buttons or to HAT switch, bind one direction to a button (Strafe Left for instance) and the other (Strafe Right) to another button.

Use your throttle for Strafe Forward/Back, not as a throttle.

Bind Strafe Up/Down and Strafe Left/Right to a HAT switch or something (but control will be poor, since it will be on/off).

Make the same Pitch/Yaw/Roll/Strafe XYZ bindings for normal mode and for Decoupled Mode (there are separate).

When you bind something in Advanced Controls Customization, take note which number is assigned to your joystick (device). If no number is present, then that is Joystick/HOTAS 1. Maybe the throttle is seen as a separate device from the stick.


From Option-Control Options you invert an axis (most likely you will need to), set dead-zones, curves. Make sure you set the correct device (Joystick/HOTAS) number on the second row first.


Track IR does not work now in Star Citizen, if I am not mistaken.
 

Malibutomi

Member
Sep 25, 2016
32
6
16
I agree with you.

I don't want this game to be a flop, I want it to be everything it claims.

But by the same token 120 million dollars and 4 game studios should have more to show.

How much does it cost to get access too?
Firstly: they didn't start with 120million, and 4 game studios, they had to build the teams and studios, and slowly gathered the funding.

Secondly: how do you know they should have more to show? Did you seen any MMOs that were made for 5-6 years before their beta phase? I don't think so..so how do you know they were in a more advanced shape in alpha than SC?
Not to say other MMOs doesn't even come close to the complexity of SC (not gameplay, but physics, and features), they are just point and click hack'n'slash games where most of the time just went to create the design, and assets, whereas at SC most of tge time so far went in the engine and physics, now that is done they just need to add the assets which the artist worked on in the meantime.
 

renz20003

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2011
2,674
593
136
Firstly: they didn't start with 120million, and 4 game studios, they had to build the teams and studios, and slowly gathered the funding.

Secondly: how do you know they should have more to show? Did you seen any MMOs that were made for 5-6 years before their beta phase? I don't think so..so how do you know they were in a more advanced shape in alpha than SC?
Not to say other MMOs doesn't even come close to the complexity of SC (not gameplay, but physics, and features), they are just point and click hack'n'slash games where most of the time just went to create the design, and assets, whereas at SC most of tge time so far went in the engine and physics, now that is done they just need to add the assets which the artist worked on in the meantime.
Everquest took about 3 years from concept to launch.
 
Feb 4, 2009
31,483
11,879
136
I finally got the $60 package for this. I've seen little video clips of it over time and it looks pretty cool to me right now, and it's only in alpha, so I think it could really be something special in the end. I can think of a hell of a lot of worse way(s) to spend $60, too.

Anyway, I was wondering if there's any decent setup videos or guides you guys recommend. I have a little experience with Elite: Dangerous and for that had found a YouTube video that went over controller setup that really made the game more enjoyable and easier to setup for me. So I was hoping there would be something similar for Star Citizen. I have a T-Flight HOTAS joystick/throttle and intend on using that or keyboard+mouse (I'm not getting a dual-joystick setup). I also have TrackIR which I'm assuming is recommended too.

Thanks for any newbie tips/resources!
Join the AT Org, the link is above we're called the AT Ballers.
Techboy has quite the setup he can give a good overview of flight sticks
 

Malibutomi

Member
Sep 25, 2016
32
6
16
Everquest took about 3 years from concept to launch.
And its looks, complexity and technical advancement are nowhere near even compared to hacknslash MMOs came a few years after it.
Sure you could make an MMO in 3 years today as well, just it would be vastly inferior to anything on the market today ( except if you copy paste another one, and just change minor things without any originality).

I'm sure you are familiar with this pic:
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,701
60
91
Everquest took about 3 years from concept to launch.
Is that why there's confusion? Do you think Everquest is a comparable project? I think that's what people are trying to drive home here. Star Citizen isn't just another game being made. There's so much on a technical level that they're having to get done, that most people just don't realize, to even create content. Can you tell us about the 64bit precision upgrades they did?
 

renz20003

Platinum Member
Mar 14, 2011
2,674
593
136
And its looks, complexity and technical advancement are nowhere near even compared to hacknslash MMOs came a few years after it.
Sure you could make an MMO in 3 years today as well, just it would be vastly inferior to anything on the market today ( except if you copy paste another one, and just change minor things without any originality).

I'm sure you are familiar with this pic:
The development of the game started in 2011 with building a demo on a modified version of the CryEngine 3game engine.

Look guys it appears you have a lot emotionally and financially tied to this game, and feel you must defend it endlessly.

IMO it's just a matter of time before they run out of funds and ask for more.

It's always a possibility to end up on the short end with crowd funding.

Good luck
 
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rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
Is that why there's confusion? Do you think Everquest is a comparable project? I think that's what people are trying to drive home here. Star Citizen isn't just another game being made. There's so much on a technical level that they're having to get done, that most people just don't realize, to even create content. Can you tell us about the 64bit precision upgrades they did?
We're talking about Everquest. A game from 1999. Weren't we still gaming in 8bit back then? I mean, jeez. The biggest technological hurdle in 1999 was making sure the code didn't crash when Y2K came... :)
 

Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,122
436
136
In short:
Yes they had to rewrite the engine, because there is no engine in the industry thet can support an SC like game (64 bit precision, instance in instance in instance - like you on a space scooter in a ship in the world map). It wouldn't take less time to make a ground up engine either. Yes they don't call it Cryengine they call it Star Engine.

CR stated numerous time this year, that they set the minimum what should becin the release, and they will add features after that.

Again the criticism comes from lack of knowledge about the topic. In your defense most of the articles you are reading does the same. Half assed 1 hour read about the topic, then write an article about it.
Whereas someone who follows the development knows that most of yhe critics points are not true (were true 1.5 years ago, but outdated now).

Since CIG finished tge rewriting of the engine and tools, finalizing the pipelines the development is running at nice speed.
I'm not sure what you mean with "they set the minimum what should be (edited) in the release, and they will add features after that". Does that mean that what CR has already announced will be in the game, but we may see him announce more? Or is it more of a "here what we know we can do in the announced features, and here's what we'll add down the road?"

I couldn't speak on the view of the articles, I've said before that there could be more to it than I've seen. I've asked for more links on the subject, I'm interested even more in ones that show CR doesn't keep overscoping the game like all the articles I've seen do. If you've any, please send them over. I didn't think I would find this subject as interesting as I have. I also didn't think pointing out similarities between it and 38 Studios (and now Duke) would have kicked started some people so much..
 

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