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Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

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Aug 29, 2015
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Hey thanks for all the info!


This is old, but it still gets to me. This is why I backed. This is why I'm a Star Citizen. This is what I'm hoping for....and I think we'll see it. Go ahead and call me a cultist, whatever...I don't give a f*ck. At least there's somebody TRYING to do this, as insurmountable as it may seem. Succeed or fail, at least they tried, and I'm more than happy to be a part of it.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lJJ9TcGxhNY
I don't think you are a cultist hehe :D I don't think any of this stuff is far fetched. I never understood all the people assuming this game would be vaporware or whatever. I played Ultima Online in about 1997 or something and that game was amazingly big and deep. And then Everquest in 1999. It was a huge world with every variety you can think of, deserts, swamps, forests, lava, lots of cities, etc, persistent too so it all continues when you log out and you feel like you are missing out... Thousands of players playing together, hundreds of different enemies, thousands of items, deep character stats, lots of classes, all unique, really great tactical real time combat (with your buddies and a bunch of strangers all playing together in real time) a LOT of underlying depth, so deep that half the game was 'emergent gameplay' that the devs never even imagined would happen. Players forming huge guilds and arranging big events, even back when the internet was new and everyone had 56k at best.

I feel like games back then had huge scope and big ideas and some became a reality, even though it was still kinda primitive in terms of what tools they had available (even having a 3d graphics card was a new thing).

And that was 17 years ago... So to think about a company making something as big as Star Citizen today is really not that far fetched, especially considering they have all this great tech, CryEngine, etc, and a huge budget to help it along. I have no doubt they will deliver.
 
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Hey thanks for all the info!




I don't think you are a cultist hehe :D I don't think any of this stuff is far fetched. I never understood all the people assuming this game would be vaporware or whatever. I played Ultima Online in about 1997 or something and that game was amazingly big and deep. And then Everquest in 1999. It was a huge world with every variety you can think of, deserts, swamps, forests, lava, lots of cities, etc, persistent too so it all continues when you log out and you feel like you are missing out... Thousands of players playing together, hundreds of different enemies, thousands of items, deep character stats, lots of classes, all unique, really great tactical real time combat (with your buddies and a bunch of strangers all playing together in real time) a LOT of underlying depth, so deep that half the game was 'emergent gameplay' that the devs never even imagined would happen. Players forming huge guilds and arranging big events, even back when the internet was new and everyone had 56k at best.

I feel like games back then had huge scope and big ideas and some became a reality, even though it was still kinda primitive in terms of what tools they had available (even having a 3d graphics card was a new thing).

And that was 17 years ago... So to think about a company making something as big as Star Citizen today is really not that far fetched, especially considering they have all this great tech, CryEngine, etc, and a huge budget to help it along. I have no doubt they will deliver.
Great point. I remember my first EQ experience that blew me away. A friend told me to meet him at the bank in faydark(?) the elf zone. I was so completely blown away by how hard it was to find it & survive the run from the starter area, then blown away by people running around buying & selling stuff, then wandering around in tree houses looking for the bank, then ultimately finding the bank & my friend. The thought of it blew me away.
Do I believe everything in SC will be awesome and just like the videos....of course not but I do think a big world with complicated mechanics can be done and I'd love it. Just today I thought how cool would it be if all the AT Ballers had mining ships and we start a mining guild or stockpile ore to sell when the market is high.

Eve has done big complicated mechanics and I love to read about it. I just cannot get into the look of the game plus always being in your ship.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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Eve is the most accurate concept of far future space combat there is. Like who is going to be eyeballing a ship 20km out with a auto cannon against the inky blackness of space? Nobody that's who. The computers will do the fighting. Everything else about the game is choice from a sand box perspective. You just need to delay gratification while you build your skills.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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Eve is the most accurate concept of far future space combat there is. Like who is going to be eyeballing a ship 20km out with a auto cannon against the inky blackness of space? Nobody that's who. The computers will do the fighting. Everything else about the game is choice from a sand box perspective. You just need to delay gratification while you build your skills.
No disrespect intended for Eve. I respect how they take chances & continue support for Eve. That game is a great example of doing something different.
 

SLU Aequitas

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2007
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Eve is the most accurate concept of far future space combat there is. Like who is going to be eyeballing a ship 20km out with a auto cannon against the inky blackness of space? Nobody that's who. The computers will do the fighting. Everything else about the game is choice from a sand box perspective. You just need to delay gratification while you build your skills.


Not far enough and not fast enough. The Lost Fleet series of books does an excellent job portraying space combat IMO. That being said, BVR engagements that are over in less than a few seconds isn't super fun.

BTW, have you ever played IW or IW2?
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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Not far enough and not fast enough. The Lost Fleet series of books does an excellent job portraying space combat IMO. That being said, BVR engagements that are over in less than a few seconds isn't super fun.

BTW, have you ever played IW or IW2?

No I never played those games. I get the appeal of WW2 in space but lets not pretend realism and immersion go along with it.
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
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No I never played those games. I get the appeal of WW2 in space but lets not pretend realism and immersion go along with it.
I'm not pretending. Realism is that the only way we can even get people into space right now is to launch them out there with a controlled explosion of fossil fuels.

Just give me fun with a pseudo-scientific lore and I'm on board. I don't have any disrespect for Eve either...I think it has some very compelling mechanics, and I have a lot of respect for the dedication that both the developer and community have given to the game...but to believe it's any more "realistic" than any other fantasy space sim is just armchair elitism.

I have a feeling most ships wouldn't even be manned. Why would I hire a crew, outlay the expense for human quarters and survival in space....when I could just create an algorithm for my space-drone to go out there and mine / trade / fight for me?

Star Citizen is obviously not about realism. Eve gives you a Shelby GT500 and allows you to tell it where it should go by "clicking." Star Citizen throws you in the seat, slaps your hand on the stick / foot on the clutch, and gives you the green light at Nurburgring. Is it realistic? Don't really care....it sure is a hell of a lot of fun.
 
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Stringjam

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Jun 30, 2011
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I love flying the M50. I'm pretty much all about the 350R now, but the M50 will always have a place...it still strafes the way a light, single-seater should (cough....fix the Gladius....cough).

BTW...in case anybody has been around long enough to remember this. One reason I'll never get rid of my M50....it gives up the goods when you mash the throttle. ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mXwIV7OxtFw
 
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TechBoyJK

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Oct 17, 2002
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That video is basic. Especially for this forum.
Basic video yes, but not many people know/understand what it was that CIG had to do to CryEngine to make that happen. And that work was certainly not 'basic' and took quite a bit of rewriting CryEngine to make it happen.

An understanding of this process should make anybody comfortable with the amount of time CIG has taken to deal with it.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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Basic video yes, but not many people know/understand what it was that CIG had to do to CryEngine to make that happen. And that work was certainly not 'basic' and took quite a bit of rewriting CryEngine to make it happen.

An understanding of this process should make anybody comfortable with the amount of time CIG has taken to deal with it.

You mean HAS to do not have done. You talk about it like its a done deal. Things jitter all over the place for the very reasons your video talks about.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
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You mean HAS to do not have done. You talk about it like its a done deal. Things jitter all over the place for the very reasons your video talks about.
oh so you've been playing the current alpha and have personal experience?

The 64bit rework is complete. Sure, they are still debugging stuff, but it's mostly related to early dev assets and code that wasnt built with the 64bit rework in mind. Same reason 'old ships' that once worked just fine now have issues.
 
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JSt0rm

Lifer
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Here is what I think is going to happen. The baby pu and assets are gonna get tossed because they cant get it working in current form. They have a new "engine" and wil rewrite with that new efficiency in mind. All hands on deck for the S42 build out. S42 will release in episodic form with the first so many mission (20 maybe of 100 promised) in 2017. When sales of that are bad because everyone who wants it already has it the company will fold. Croberts has already discussed "minimum viable product"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product

He needs to put out a minimum viable product of the pu or else the lawsuits will be fierce. Those of us in the US dont have much in the way of consumer protections in this area but the EU countries absolutely do.


What they should of done is had a round of testing of different engines by knowledgeable people in the industry. Find the one that is most efficient with resources and netcode and is already 64bit and move forward. They stepped in the dooky so to speak and croberts didnt want to listen to the engineering challenges before him. He burned through a ton of money needlessly. He is a game designer who hasnt worked in the industry since 2002 at the latest. A lot has changed in that time and game designers aren't the be all end up of the tech side of game making.

note to mods: Im writing in this thread because I am being addressed. If my opinions are uncomfortable they are uncomfortable for the real reasons I outline and not because of being a troll or whatever. Yes I use gifs/jpgs to be lighthearted about the whole glorious mess.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
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The flaw in that theory is that 64-bit is working just fine and there's no reason it shouldn't. The precision offered is orders of magnitude larger than they will ever need. The only jitteriness I've ever seen since the PU opened is other players. No other objects, large or small, near Crusader or way out past the ICC station, jitter. That means it's a network code issue and from what Mark Abent has said relates to the prediction algorithms in use to smooth position updates for player characters between packets.

The guys who built CryEngine seem to think this will work just fine, but you seem to have better info otherwise?
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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We could go back and forth all day. There is one thing I know: 1 side will be eating crow when this whole thing is over. The only difference is if I eat crow I didn't lose $200 to $15k real dollars in the process.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
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We could go back and forth all day.
No, we can't. I just told you the 64-bit is working fine with examples. If you have another reason as to why the tech won't work, please present it. Otherwise you have nothing justifiable.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
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This is why talking to you guys is hilariously funny. You think saying something makes it true.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
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This is why talking to you guys is hilariously funny. You think saying something makes it true.
Yes, yes, I'm sure you're laughing hysterically at the hilarity involved. Troll harder.

The burden of proof is on the prosecution. Show us this jitter that proves 64-bit positioning isn't working correctly.
 

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