Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

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Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
You've mentioned this before. But can you explain this one to me? Conceptually it doesn't make sense (maybe it's just me). There isn't any lift is space so I can't understand why roll would help.

If you're flying straight ahead and a target crosses your bow, all roll is going to do is turn your ship over. You would still be flying in the same direction right? Yaw would allow you to point your bow at the target.

What am I missing?


Here's an example of, IMO, one of the best dual-stick pilots in BR. You see a common pattern develop in the way he rolls his PIP into targets as he closes distance and then rolls through the turn as the ship passes by.

:45 - 1:30 is a prime example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqarf_p9dlk


When I started doing similar I just found my aim naturally improved because I wasn't trying to follow a ship's vector just using yaw (some people are really good at it), which may be a joystick thing. I'm just not as smooth following ships without some pitch thrown in there.

You're still using yaw a lot (you can see that in the video), but its not like some videos where it looks like the ship never rolls at all. I think in the end it's just whatever you get used to. Aiming is not easy in the game, so you develop little ways to keep your PIP where you want it based on how your brain is wired.
 
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Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
Star Marine will be an in fiction simulation with traditional arcade FPS characteristics (ala CoD).


That's my understanding of it. Maybe somebody can correct me if I'm wrong, but in the real PU, both Star Marine (FPS) and Arena Commander (Ship Combat) will exist as virtual simulators.

Competitive matches you can play where your character doesn't lose his life and you don't lose your ship when it blows up.

If that's really the way it works out, I think that's an awesome way to set it up. Essentially training / competitive sims.

I'm still hoping we see Star Marine soon. Another studio worked on that for months and developed a killer looking FPS map called New Horizons. Then 2.0 dropped and we have barely heard a peep about it since.

I think we really need a Star Marine module to thoroughly test FPS, because in the PU it takes too much time to get into an FPS situation and really test anything before it's all over.
 

Worthington

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2005
1,432
17
81
They don't specify that the "in game playtime" equates to IRL hours. In fact I expect it won't. So, 6 months Ins gets you 4300 hours. You sit down to game and play for a solid evening, or 5 hours. Those 5 hours could easily equate to 20 in "game hours".

Not that I think it matters much either way, but people (especially on the SC forums) like to read something, assume it means X.. and then lose their shit when it really means Y.

Edit.. meh someone beat me to it already. Man, this thread is moving fast this morning. :p
 

vshah

Lifer
Sep 20, 2003
19,003
24
81
Is this simulated in the Star Citizen game, or are you talking about blackouts when flying real planes?

Yes, it is implemented in SC and the maneuvers I described work in the game. I don't know how realistic that is when compared to flying real planes.
 

Seba

Golden Member
Sep 17, 2000
1,520
186
106
I'm not sure it's totally accurate/correct. By rolling, you turn negative Gs to positive Gs or vise versa. I believe that pilots with the air bladders, breathing, clenching muscles and all that (to keep blood OUT of their legs during a positive G situation) can get above 5 Gs; Negative Gs however are much harder - instead of blood pooling in your legs/lower extremities, it pools in your head...

Aka, if you're trying a 7 G turn, you can probably withstand that as long as its positive and you know what you're doing/have stuff to assist you that constricts blood flow to the legs. If you are trying a negative 7 G turn, you can't sustain it. Not as far as I've ever been aware of.
Thanks for the explanation, but this isn't what I asked. You are talking about real world here. I asked if his justification about doing rolls to avoid blackouts has any meaning in this game, because I never saw anything like this in Star Citizen videos that I watched. For instance, does the screen became black or become blurred or something like that when performing high-G maneuvers in-game?
 

Worthington

Golden Member
Apr 29, 2005
1,432
17
81
Thanks for the explanation, but this isn't what I asked. You are talking about real world here. I asked if his justification about doing rolls to avoid blackouts has any meaning in this game, because I never saw anything like this in Star Citizen videos that I watched. For instance, does the screen became black or become blurred or something like that when performing high-G maneuvers in-game?

Yes, it does. You can black or red yourself out if you're not careful when maneuvering in SC
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
Hey...you know what I realized last night?

When you enter an Avenger, you have to close the ramp behind you. It doesn't automatically happen.

I've been flying my Avenger around since November with my rear hatch open....and no one has said anything to me about it.


Took me awhile to figure that out, too. I noticed it the first time I EVA'd from an Avenger. Same with the Freelancer.

Kind of a handy feature that it doesn't automatically close though. I could see guys lining up in the back to jump out over and EVA over a spot.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
Hi,what are those speakers? setup looks awesome btw:)

They're some older JBL studio monitors. I bought them about 15 years ago at Best Buy. They're unpowered, so I had to get a stereo amp to power them. I was pretty big on Onkyo at the time (still am kinda) so I bought the best 2 channel stereo I could get at the time. Even though it was only 2 channel, it was still like $400 or something. Total package was just over $1200 I think for the 2 speakers and amp.

I think they're the same as these (just different wood color). JBL Studio Series

2c24041e-6b54-11e5-9f09-c8e2bebc5e86.jpg


http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/365#uYrjcxty34aFPFgd.97
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
Hey...you know what I realized last night?

When you enter an Avenger, you have to close the ramp behind you. It doesn't automatically happen.

I've been flying my Avenger around since November with my rear hatch open....and no one has said anything to me about it.

I actually have the same habit.

It would nice if they would close it automatically when you take off.

I had some great footage that I wanted to post to youtube. Except when I went back and watched it, my damn hatch was open and I felt like a fool.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
Also.. when I land my avenger on something when there is no gravity, I've had problems where when the back hatch opens, the force from the hatch pushes my ship away from where I landed.

Oh hey I just made a nice landing! I know there's no gravity, so I really just set it against something and it could still float away.. so that light touch of the back hatch hitting it is enough to start the ship floating away.....
 

Zanovar

Diamond Member
Jan 21, 2011
3,446
232
106
They're some older JBL studio monitors. I bought them about 15 years ago at Best Buy. They're unpowered, so I had to get a stereo amp to power them. I was pretty big on Onkyo at the time (still am kinda) so I bought the best 2 channel stereo I could get at the time. Even though it was only 2 channel, it was still like $400 or something. Total package was just over $1200 I think for the 2 speakers and amp.

I think they're the same as these (just different wood color). JBL Studio Series

2c24041e-6b54-11e5-9f09-c8e2bebc5e86.jpg


http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/365#uYrjcxty34aFPFgd.97

Cheers for the info :).ive just bought a pair of jbl control 1 speakers.(ceiling atmos).very impressed with them.price wise they pack a punch compared to my other speakers.(ran out of money:p).off t sorry folks:S.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
Just the opposite. 6-months insurance is worth over 4300 hours of in-game playtime.

And if somebody manages to pull that off, CIG has indicated that buying additional insurance will be a minimal cost. What they're basically saying is for people who purchased a ship to back the game, it will pretty much be impossible to lose because of an insurance lapse. I think the lowest amount of insurance I've seen come with a ship is 3-months, which is over 2100 hours of playtime.

Ok this is nice to know. I was actually starting to justify spending more on a ship because it had longer insurance. Now I know not to put too much value into that alone.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
Looks like you have some nice DAW stuff going on. I used to be into Sonar years ago but I haven't had time for it (or practicing) for a very long time.


Back on topic - very nice setup for SC too! ;)

Thanks! I pretty much use ableton these days, but I recently moved and haven't really done much with it. I'm thinking about building a special pod/shelf thingy for my joysticks and a few cheap 10" tablets for HUD controls. This way I could potentially use it front of my big screen tv which has an hdmi hookup to my gaming pc.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
They don't specify that the "in game playtime" equates to IRL hours. In fact I expect it won't. So, 6 months Ins gets you 4300 hours. You sit down to game and play for a solid evening, or 5 hours. Those 5 hours could easily equate to 20 in "game hours".

Not that I think it matters much either way, but people (especially on the SC forums) like to read something, assume it means X.. and then lose their shit when it really means Y.

Edit.. meh someone beat me to it already. Man, this thread is moving fast this morning. :p

I think you're on the right track. In game hours will be quite a bit shorter. If not, Matt's comments effectively invalidate the basic hull insurance mechanic entirely. Now, there's still additional insurance to worry about (equipment, cargo, etc), but why even have hull insurance if the basic amount lasts 4000 play hours? The most time I've ever put into any game is around 1000.

I personally feel it should be in universe time lapsed whether you're playing or not, starting from the first time you log into the full release. You don't get a discount on insurance because you take a vacation for a few months in real life, so why should it in game? If it's such a minor expense, this shouldn't be a big deal.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
Here's an example of, IMO, one of the best dual-stick pilots in BR. You see a common pattern develop in the way he rolls his PIP into targets as he closes distance and then rolls through the turn as the ship passes by.

:45 - 1:30 is a prime example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqarf_p9dlk


When I started doing similar I just found my aim naturally improved because I wasn't trying to follow a ship's vector just using yaw (some people are really good at it), which may be a joystick thing. I'm just not as smooth following ships without some pitch thrown in there.

You're still using yaw a lot (you can see that in the video), but its not like some videos where it looks like the ship never rolls at all. I think in the end it's just whatever you get used to. Aiming is not easy in the game, so you develop little ways to keep your PIP where you want it based on how your brain is wired.

Thanks! This was very helpful to me. I'm guessing this comes about not only because of a way a brain is wired (agree with that) but also perhaps ability of the ship (yaw change rate vs pitch change rate). And as others have mentioned, for blackout reduction reasons as well.

I'm gonna have to give this a try (especially when I got dual stick setup.....which will be soon.....I think SC is far enough along where the flight model won't change drastically and I can start practicing with dual stick).
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
I think we really need a Star Marine module to thoroughly test FPS, because in the PU it takes too much time to get into an FPS situation and really test anything before it's all over.

Agreed. I've been to Karesh three times in 2.1. Two of those times, I was alone. Not a lot of fun FPSing when you're alone!

The one time someone else was present, the FPS didn't last long...because I suck and took a head shot and died/respawned back at PO.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
I think you're on the right track. In game hours will be quite a bit shorter. If not, Matt's comments effectively invalidate the basic hull insurance mechanic entirely. Now, there's still additional insurance to worry about (equipment, cargo, etc), but why even have hull insurance if the basic amount lasts 4000 play hours? The most time I've ever put into any game is around 1000.

I personally feel it should be in universe time lapsed whether you're playing or not, starting from the first time you log into the full release. You don't get a discount on insurance because you take a vacation for a few months in real life, so why should it in game? If it's such a minor expense, this shouldn't be a big deal.

It would be funny, and actually practical, if there were 'police' who would 'pull you over' if they could see that you were driving uninsured! :p
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
I tried to get the roccat powergrid AurgonHUD plugin to work last night.. but no luck.

I actually got the custom template loaded on my tablet, and it looked nice. But I couldn't get it to communicate. The app was logged into my PC, and could communicate with the server daemon, but nothing was actually talking to SC that I could see. I know it's just macro based, so it might be a keybinding issue.

I'll dig into it more tonight. Already thinking about buying some cheap tablets for this.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,100
467
126
I actually have the same habit.

It would nice if they would close it automatically when you take off.

I had some great footage that I wanted to post to youtube. Except when I went back and watched it, my damn hatch was open and I felt like a fool.

What flying around with your fly open? Nah... that wouldn't make you look like a fool :D
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,518
223
106
I think you're on the right track. In game hours will be quite a bit shorter. If not, Matt's comments effectively invalidate the basic hull insurance mechanic entirely. Now, there's still additional insurance to worry about (equipment, cargo, etc), but why even have hull insurance if the basic amount lasts 4000 play hours? The most time I've ever put into any game is around 1000.

I personally feel it should be in universe time lapsed whether you're playing or not, starting from the first time you log into the full release. You don't get a discount on insurance because you take a vacation for a few months in real life, so why should it in game? If it's such a minor expense, this shouldn't be a big deal.

You can adjust your coverage if you leave a vehicle parked for an extended period of time - drop to state minimums, remove comprehensive/collision (if it's not financed).. :p
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
You can adjust your coverage if you leave a vehicle parked for an extended period of time - drop to state minimums, remove comprehensive/collision (if it's not financed).. :p

True, but they don't just put your elapsed time for the policy on hiatus. And you still pay something.
 

TechBoyJK

Lifer
Oct 17, 2002
16,699
60
91
Serious question... if you constantly wreck your ship, will your insurance rates go up?

I think they should. Not much, just enough to have a little sting to it.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
Serious question... if you constantly wreck your ship, will your insurance rates go up?

I think they should. Not much, just enough to have a little sting to it.

CIG have alluded that it'll work much like the real world....the more claims you have, the higher your renewal rate. Also, the more claims you have, the longer your replacement will take.

The later point above is something I think a lot of people are not considering. Ships in SC aren't going to just appear out of thin air. They will need to be made as a product of the dynamic economy. So the rarer the ship, the longer it might take to get your replacement.

But nothing is certain yet. Right now, we're all just speculating.