• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

Page 149 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
What's the cheapest way to get into this? I don't have a lot of disposable cash right now, but if I could get a decent ship that I won't hate right away I'd likely be content with it and just enjoy poking around.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/pledge/game-packages?product_id=&sort=price_asc&search=&itemType=skus&storefront=pledge&type=game-packages&

The cheapest way is to buy one of the $45 starter packages. I recommend the Aurora LN, but that's just my opinion.

The Aurora MR and the Mustang Alpha are other options for $45.

(shameless plug): regardless of what you choose, if you use this referral code: STAR-KP3S-XZ4M

you will receive an additional 5,000 UEC (in-game currency) and I'll get flair items and some weapons)

If you choose to use my referral code - thanks! If not, no worries.

And if you do jump in.....welcome to the 'verse. We got our own AT org going on that you should consider joining.
 
Last edited:

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
One more thing.....on November 19th CIG will have their annual "anniversary" sale. It's possible that some starter packages may be discounted on that day......but they would be limited in number and likely to sell out quickly if previous years activity hold true this year.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,755
61
91
What's the cheapest way to get into this? I don't have a lot of disposable cash right now, but if I could get a decent ship that I won't hate right away I'd likely be content with it and just enjoy poking around.
Buy Elite: Dangerous, instead. This "game" is just a crap arena shooter with horrible flight physics, and a "social" module where the only thing to do is drive around in little buggies that blow up after slightly touching something. There are plenty of other space games cheaper than elite that have better and more gameplay than star citizen.

If you want a primer on this game, this recent story is good for noobs: https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/the-most-ambitious-space-game-in-history-has-raised--94-million--so-where-is-it-213831707.html?nf=1

This "game" is more of a ponzi scheme that is more focused on getting Chris Roberts back into hollywood than actually producing a playable product.
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
As Rivethead noted, you can get into the game for $45 with an Aurora or Mustang Alpha package.

Of the two, I prefer the Mustang because it's faster and more fun to fly, and it has a really cool interior.

Really though, either makes a good starter ship, and if you don't like one you can always melt to the other.
 
Feb 4, 2009
31,479
11,875
136
Why does there have to be one semi old school space game, why all the hate if you don't like SC then either wait for it to be released or don't buy it. Personally Elite Dangerous looks interesting but its mostly single player and that is not what I want at this time, maybe I'll change my mind but regardless I'm glad it exists because options are nice to have.
 

jlee

Lifer
Sep 12, 2001
48,509
219
106
Why does there have to be one semi old school space game, why all the hate if you don't like SC then either wait for it to be released or don't buy it. Personally Elite Dangerous looks interesting but its mostly single player and that is not what I want at this time, maybe I'll change my mind but regardless I'm glad it exists because options are nice to have.


I'm tempted to buy TIE Fighter from GOG. Old school...mmm.
 

preslove

Lifer
Sep 10, 2003
16,755
61
91
Why does there have to be one semi old school space game, why all the hate if you don't like SC then either wait for it to be released or don't buy it. Personally Elite Dangerous looks interesting but its mostly single player and that is not what I want at this time, maybe I'll change my mind but regardless I'm glad it exists because options are nice to have.
Because SC will never become what they have been promising. Because Chris Roberts has taken close to $100 million of gamer money and used it to build motion capture studios instead of a playable game. Because most of the lead project managers and designers have quit.

Because the thieving companies (there are at least 10 shell companies) who fraudulently acquired $94 million dollars from consumers (and lord knows how much from bank loans to all the different companies) are going to implode before this "game" ever even reaches beta.

So, noobs, do not give these frauds any of your money. There are actual, real space games out there you can buy.



I'm tempted to buy TIE Fighter from GOG. Old school...mmm.
A great example of a real game.
 
Last edited:

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
19,244
1,624
126
What's the cheapest way to get into this? I don't have a lot of disposable cash right now, but if I could get a decent ship that I won't hate right away I'd likely be content with it and just enjoy poking around.
don't get the game if you dont have the disposable cash.

Get the game if you want to support them, and pray that they will finish the game.

Realistically, i am watching how deep they can dig.
Like others said, the game has been in Alpha for god knows how long, and it seems movie capture is more important then actual game play.

And as another member has said, they have lost a LOT of their programmers, and the recent fiasco with the escapist has blown up the reputation of the company to almost nothing.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/14727-The-Escapist-Explains-Its-Star-Citizen-Sources-Vetting-and-Respo

If Chris Roberts has nothing to hide, then he would be transparent with the backers money.
However there is a LOT of hidden things which is completely unacceptable to me in this company.

Why does there have to be one semi old school space game, why all the hate if you don't like SC then either wait for it to be released or don't buy it.
because he gives kicker starters a really bad name.
All that money, and the game is still in alpha...
They spent all that time on movie cinematic of his wife dressed up, instead of actual game play.

After this blows up and he files for bankruptcy... and i am betting it will happen, he will destory the faith in people supporting kick starters.
This is why there is so much hate.

I can go on and on, but i'll be good and stop..
 
Last edited:

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
Because SC will never become what they have been promising
Been looking into your crystal ball again?

Because Chris Roberts has taken close to $100 million of gamer money and used it to build motion capture studios instead of a playable game.
The mo-cap studio they have built is tiny. The majority of the work was done in the UK using an already established studio. The in-house studio is for future projects and additions to SQ42/SC that will end up saving money over having to rent out someone else's facility and people to operate it.

Because most of the lead project managers and designers have quit.
Most is a strong word, but you're welcome to try and prove it.

Those who left (usually due to better job offers as CIG doesn't pay the highest wages and is instead staffed by people passionate about the project) were replaced by equally talented individuals from the industry. In fact, CIG is becoming known as a Blizzard retirement area due to the amount of former Blizzard employees.

Because the thieving companies (there are at least 12 shell companies) who fraudulently acquired $94 million dollars from consumers (and lord knows how much from bank loans to all the different companies) are going to implode before this "game" ever even reaches beta.
More crystal ball action?

Buy Elite: Dangerous, instead.
Funny you should bring that up in the same area as referring to SC's flight model (which is changing to v2.0 here very soon). First, Elite and its flight model are largely boring. Sure, it offers flight assist off but you shouldn't have to use it in order to have a stimulating flight experience. In fact, the only really stimulating part of Elite is CQC with flight assist off, which very closely mimics the environment of AC at this time. Though, to choose between the two, I'd take the fluid feel of SC's flight model over the yaw-nerfed because balance Elite flight model.

Speaking of Elite, another crowdfunded game, it was in development for years before they ever went public. So, they had a head start (and were actually a cohesive company already) and produced a smaller game in the end. I'd rather them take their time and deliver something worth playing for more than 30 minutes than the miles wide but inches deep experience of Elite. Yes, Horizons is coming. We'll get to drive around barren planets in identical buggies in the hopes of finding defense drones to shoot at us and if we find anything interesting we won't even be able to get out and look at it.

SC on the other hand is bringing a first person world to your fingertips where you can walk around your ship, get out whenever you want, with a huge variety of careers to pursue. Its development only got into high gear two years ago, with the year before that being mostly standing up the various offices of an entire production company. Hiring original Crytek engineers and converting CryEngine to 64-bit positioning alone is a serious undertaking. Elite stepped around this by having FSD system maps and instancing areas once your drop to normal drive. Because of this, the experience feels like jumping to a "map" view and moving around. It fails to impart scale.

One more note, on your article, it curiously omits the details where every single pledge transaction has a disclaimer that you do not have to buy anything more than a game package. All ships can be earned in game. Everything is pledged with that understanding and is done so in the interests of seeing the game through.

All that aside, Techboy, if you want a good feel for SC the starter packages Stringjam mentioned are good ideas. Keep in mind, as with all crowdfunded projects, you should not pledge anything that you would be concerned if nothing came of it. If that's an issue for you, wait until the retail release and you'll be good to go. If you do pledge now, good things are in the pipeline like Alpha 2.0 which will introduce multicrew ship gameplay and the large world Crusader map (which is only a tiny fraction of one of the nearly 100 systems that will be in the final PU).
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
All that money, and the game is still in alpha...
Show me a game that went from scratch to outside of Alpha in less than three years with the level of complexity they are trying to achieve. I know of no such examples.

They spent all that time on movie cinematic of his wife dressed up, instead of actual game play.
Referring to AtV openings? Paid for by Subscriber money, not game dev funds. All behind the scenes media and equipment (sets, cameras, etc) are paid for by Subscribers. She isn't a dev, Ben isn't a dev, Tom Hennessy isn't a dev, so their activities aren't detracting from development. They do give out lots of development info, add to in-fiction lore, and put a face on a long and complex development process.

Though, if you're maybe referring to her role in SQ42, what's the complaint? Cheaper than hiring a Hollywood actor for that role because she's already on the payroll as marketing director?

After this blows up and he files for bankruptcy... and i am betting it will happen, he will destory the faith in people supporting kick starters.
That's assuming it goes that way, which even people in the video game financing industry (Kevin Dent) don't see any warning signs. Chris was rich before this started and will see it through to the end. He has already said they have enough to finish development as is. If they really were running low on cash and the outlook was grim, I assure you ever "limited" ship would be on sale again in a final cash grab.

This is why there is so much hate.
So the hate comes from doubt that they can accomplish what they're already on the road towards (and getting near strictly content production as the engine framework comes together) that people spread FUD campaigns in order to create self-fulfilling prophecies?

I understand why the most vocal against the campaign does what he does (Derek Smart). He's a direct competitor, is threatened, displays signs of delusion with large doses of hypocrisy, and is a self-professed internet troll. He has talked shit about every up and coming space game until it comes out and then he says "see, I knew it'd be alright." Biggest example is Elite.

But, the rest of the general public, I don't understand. What stake do they have in it? Is it jealousy that whales can willy-nilly spend thousands of dollars on pledges? No one goes off on internet tirades on Gucci bags that cost thousands of dollars but are only worn once. Leave people to spend their money how they see fit in peace. The disclaimers are all on the website. Is it because of the size of the pot? Is there some unofficial rule on the max size a crowd-funded project can be?

There is no precedent to a project like this, as far as I can tell. Hundreds of thousands of people offering $90+ million for the Best Damn Space Sim Ever which required the standing up of an entire game development studio across three countries. Are there risks? Of course, and we all understood that when we pledged (just like every crowdfunded campaign I've been apart of from space sims to the Bill Nye documentary to mountain bike GoPro mounts). Are there benefits? Absolutely! It has the potential to really launch this space sim renaissance and really give PC gamers something to be proud of.

I do see a lot of assumptions and presumptions about their financials, their ultimate demise (even countdowns to that effect), and attacks of character on those involved (none of which I can find to be substantiated). I also see a lot of things to respect about some involved (CR's recent letter asking everyone to take a look at Infinity: Battlescape). He's truly interested in space games and gaming in general and I believe he wants the project completed the most.

So, until there's evidence of these impending disasters, I'll continue to drink my Kool-aid and the detractors can drink theirs, I guess.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
because he gives kicker starters a really bad name.
Please. You want to know what's really going to give kick starters a really bad name in the gaming world?

FIG. And the SECs recent announcement that will allow FIG (and others) to make video game backers become INVESTORS.

Yikes. Gamers being investors. Now that's a bad thing. That's where you should focus your attention. Not on some dev that's already released content that has provided hours of entertainment to hundreds of thousands of gamers.....
 

Red Storm

Lifer
Oct 2, 2005
14,207
216
106
Buy Elite: Dangerous, instead. This "game" is just a crap arena shooter with horrible flight physics, and a "social" module where the only thing to do is drive around in little buggies that blow up after slightly touching something. There are plenty of other space games cheaper than elite that have better and more gameplay than star citizen.

If you want a primer on this game, this recent story is good for noobs: https://www.yahoo.com/tech/s/the-most-ambitious-space-game-in-history-has-raised--94-million--so-where-is-it-213831707.html?nf=1

This "game" is more of a ponzi scheme that is more focused on getting Chris Roberts back into hollywood than actually producing a playable product.
ThinClient 3.0
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
19,244
1,624
126
So, until there's evidence of these impending disasters, I'll continue to drink my Kool-aid and the detractors can drink theirs, I guess.
if that makes you happy go ahead.

I am not going to criticize you in how you wish to spend your money.
If you felt it was a good investment in the future, then im really happy for you.
(no sarcasm at all)

I have kick started a lot of games on steam only to be greatly disappointed at the stalling projects. I wish steam would refund you on games which stalled.

By the time the game goes to beta, the Cryengine they use will be so outdated it will be near garbage...
Ie... Dice's frostbyte engine completely decimates cryengine, and lets not even go into Ubisoft's Snowdrop engine for the division.

Stalling the project so long only makes the outlook not so great, because the foundation of the game is based on an old engine.

Then we go into the escapists article.
Do you actually know what was said in that article?

Let me link it for you:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/features/14695-Star-Citizen-Controversy-Reaches-a-Boiling-Point

And the escapist stands firm on its article.
If they amend it, then i will personally retract my statements, however in the update they stated where they got the facts, where it could be misleading.

But again, its not my call in how or what you decide to invest your money. Its your money after all.
But i feel people who are new and are interested should at least get some story behind CIG, and let them decide if its truly worth it.

Anyhow i dont want to offend anyone in general.
My rants are directed at the company and not its kick start supporters.
 
Last edited:

thujone

Golden Member
Jun 15, 2003
1,158
0
71
i hadn't checked up on this in quite a while and that escapist article was pretty damning... definitely gonna wait until this one gets further in development before i throw any money at it.
 
Feb 4, 2009
31,479
11,875
136
i hadn't checked up on this in quite a while and that escapist article was pretty damning... definitely gonna wait until this one gets further in development before i throw any money at it.
I'm a backer & I respect this. Notice no weird accusations no bombs thrown. Well done, I'm not kidding I respect your decision.
 

GoodRevrnd

Diamond Member
Dec 27, 2001
6,798
581
126
I don't really have much of a horse in this race. I backed, but haven't really invested any time following this and have always assumed as long as they get Squadron 42 out it will have been worth it, even if SC is a mess.

I don't see how that Escapist article has any credibility. It's entirely based on using Derek Smart as a secondary source and making conjecture based on additional circumstantial evidence. Additionally, they'd have to be beyond reckless with their budgeting to blow through all that cash so quickly. I'm not saying all this isn't possible, but the go-to "source" in all these shenanigans has always been an even bigger less credible clown with an axe to grind and while SC has pulled a lot of nonsense, I'm just not sure everything quite adds up that this is some huge scam.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
i hadn't checked up on this in quite a while and that escapist article was pretty damning... definitely gonna wait until this one gets further in development before i throw any money at it.
I'm a backer & I respect this. Notice no weird accusations no bombs thrown. Well done, I'm not kidding I respect your decision.
Agreed. If anyone has any reservations about the project or would be upset that their money amounted to nothing more than we have today, I tell them to not back. Not everyone should be a backer.

Though, I do encourage you to clear you palette a bit and look beyond the Escapist article. There is a large plethora of counter pieces that show it cannot be trusted for anything beyond its own words as an opinion. No evidence, all anonymous sources, exact quotes from their sources appearing on Glass Door days before the article went live (which were ones claimed to have been sourced over the telephone), the sources contacting the reporter through Derek Smart, and the general regurgitation of his unsubstantiated claims.

Do as you wish, but look around some more. Whatever your beliefs on the publication's credibility there, if you have doubts it is best to wait for retail release.

By the time the game goes to beta, the Cryengine they use will be so outdated it will be near garbage...
Ie... Dice's frostbyte engine completely decimates cryengine, and lets not even go into Ubisoft's Snowdrop engine for the division.
Fair enough concern, but having hired Crytek engineers I feel it would be foolish to not think they will move beyond stock CryEngine features. They've already gutted the engine substantially enough and converted it to 64-bit with zero-G mechanics. On top of that they removed the traditional spatial partitioning/octree systems used in current engines for their own proprietary zoning system. And they're doing their own rework of the base rendering pipeline for DX12, plus the total rework of its netcode. Frostbite would require too much work to jump to after everything they've done with CryEngine. By the time it's finished, it'll have less in common with stock CryEngine than is different.

Since Crytek is slowing development (hence how CIG was able to hire their original engineers), the Star Citizen engine will probably become the most advanced version of it.

Lots of good info at Gamersnexus from the man himself:

http://www.gamersnexus.net/gg/2114-chris-roberts-star-citizen-on-dx12-vulkan-and-tech

http://www.gamersnexus.net/gg/2119-chris-roberts-on-star-citizen-network-and-render-pipelines

But again, its not my call in how or what you decide to invest your money. Its your money after all.
But i feel people who are new and are interested should at least get some story behind CIG, and let them decide if its truly worth it.

Anyhow i dont want to offend anyone in general.
My rants are directed at the company and not its kick start supporters.
Understood and respected.
 
Last edited:

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,664
120
106
www.neftastic.com
Why does there have to be one semi old school space game, why all the hate if you don't like SC then either wait for it to be released or don't buy it. Personally Elite Dangerous looks interesting but its mostly single player and that is not what I want at this time, maybe I'll change my mind but regardless I'm glad it exists because options are nice to have.
I personally hated Elite Dangerous. Flight physics were horrible, UI was terrible, control scheme was downright unusable and the game AI was worse (though I'm sure that's not that point of the game). It felt like playing a really crappy arcade style space shooter. Even the oldest Wing Commander had better controls and AI than Elite Dangerous - in my humble opinion of course.
 

Sabrewings

Golden Member
Jun 27, 2015
1,942
35
51
I personally hated Elite Dangerous. Flight physics were horrible, UI was terrible, control scheme was downright unusable and the game AI was worse (though I'm sure that's not that point of the game). It felt like playing a really crappy arcade style space shooter. Even the oldest Wing Commander had better controls and AI than Elite Dangerous - in my humble opinion of course.
Agreed on all points. I want to like Elite, and I see its potential. I've given it full faith by buying it and a season pass for all DLCs.

Though, I think they're going the wrong method charging existing customers for Horizons. $60 for the game originally within the last year, then $50 or so for Horizons? When newcomers can buy the entire kit for $105 I believe?

It's not the right message to send to some of your oldest customers. Not really a loyalty discount, instead a loyalty tax.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,943
126
What's the cheapest way to get into this? I don't have a lot of disposable cash right now, but if I could get a decent ship that I won't hate right away I'd likely be content with it and just enjoy poking around.

Save your money dude. This thing is horribly mismanaged. Atleast do your homework before dishing money out.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY