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Star Citizen: Chris Robert`s new space sim (the Wing Commander guy)

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Dannar26

Senior member
Mar 13, 2012
691
27
91
Clearly we should start a class action lawsuit to get pennies on the dollars we invested, while the lawyers laugh all the way to the bank.

Knowing that this game is going to be difficult to make, we should heap on litigation to further complicate the process, much to everyone's detriment except, here again, lawyers.

In fact, let's just start a kick starter for lawyers! Let's destroy creativity and the artistic pursuit of making video games in the name of litigation, because, well, this CR fellow just took too gosh darn long to deliver.

With that mentality...can we sue PennDOT?
 
Feb 4, 2009
31,365
11,773
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I don't think banks or investors will give CR millions of dollars after he blew through $85 million and his core customers already purchased the game.
Since there are actually parts of the game you can play I'd say blowing through the money would not be accurate to someone or some group that has money and want to invest it in start up companies. Most businesses fail however investors are always willing to take a risk.
 

SLU Aequitas

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2007
1,252
26
91
Clearly we should start a class action lawsuit to get pennies on the dollars we invested, while the lawyers laugh all the way to the bank.

Knowing that this game is going to be difficult to make, we should heap on litigation to further complicate the process, much to everyone's detriment except, here again, lawyers.

In fact, let's just start a kick starter for lawyers! Let's destroy creativity and the artistic pursuit of making video games in the name of litigation, because, well, this CR fellow just took too gosh darn long to deliver.

With that mentality...can we sue PennDOT?
You've got to ask, those agitating for this, what do they have to gain. In the case of Smart, it's self interest, which is why considering that and his history of abject failures, made pulling in his articles all the more hilarious.
 

Dannar26

Senior member
Mar 13, 2012
691
27
91
You've got to ask, those agitating for this, what do they have to gain. In the case of Smart, it's self interest, which is why considering that and his history of abject failures, made pulling in his articles all the more hilarious.
You know, I never heard of this fellow before...
 

ToySoldier

Member
Dec 17, 2003
186
0
76
Interesting short vid from WDVentito. Sums up the vision of Star Citizen nicely.





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rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
I don't think banks or investors will give CR millions of dollars after he blew through $85 million and his core customers already purchased the game.
I think you vastly underestimate SC's "core" customers. According to this: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals they ONLY have 923,859 Star Citizens signed up. Probably less when you factor in one person opening duplicate accounts.

On a global scale, that's not very many players. I think a LOT of people are interested but in wait-and-see mode. This project is unprecedented and thus there is a risk associated with this. Some people are risk-adverse.

Regarding you marketing spend estimate of seven figures - I'm not buying it. But if it makes you feel better, their head of marketing also spent a month as a character actor shooting mo-cap scenes for SQ42. So they saved money there by not having to hire an actress to play the part of cute, but super-thin brunette #1.
 

SunnyD

Belgian Waffler
Jan 2, 2001
32,664
120
106
www.neftastic.com
Given that the most ardent customers have already spent their money, this could lead to a situation where practically no one who hasn't backed the game actually purchases it.
If you've already 'backed' the title, you've already 'purchased' it. I'm pretty sure that most everyone who has wanted to get into the game already has backed it with a very small minority in the "wait and see" mode given the extremely low barrier to entry. I'm just guessing and throwing out a number, but maybe post launch numbers will be about 10% completely new customers.
 
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Chaotic0ne

Member
Jul 12, 2015
193
0
0
The game itself is also skill based, and all ships can be obtained in game.
Most people's definition of "pay to win" involves paying real money to avoid grinding in some way in a game. Stuff like buying exp boosters is pay to win, as is buying ships for real money that take a lot of effort to get in game, etc. Lots of other examples.
 

SLU Aequitas

Golden Member
Jul 13, 2007
1,252
26
91
Most people's definition of "pay to win" involves paying real money to avoid grinding in some way in a game. Stuff like buying exp boosters is pay to win, as is buying ships for real money that take a lot of effort to get in game, etc. Lots of other examples.
No, that's not the definition of "pay to win".
In some multiplayer free-to-play games, players who are willing to pay for special items or downloadable content may be able to gain a significant advantage over those playing for free. Critics of such games call them "pay-to-win" games.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play#Criticism

Pay to win is generally thought of as any situation where a player is able to purchase a significant advantage over another player which the player not paying would be unable to obtain him/herself through in game means.
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
Most people's definition of "pay to win" involves paying real money to avoid grinding in some way in a game. Stuff like buying exp boosters is pay to win, as is buying ships for real money that take a lot of effort to get in game, etc. Lots of other examples.

But what are they "winning" in a game like Star Citizen? The whole point is to start from the beginning and find your own path. It's the journey that's the game - - not buying an expensive ship to increase some kind of K/D ratio.

It won't matter at all in SQ42, and it will only matter in Persistent Universe if you just want to jump in and start fighting / pirating in a fancy ship without actually having to use your brain enough to earn it through in-game economics.

Or maybe somebody wants to start out with a big, expensive freighter or salvage vessel...again, how are they "winning" when there is no end-game of "Yay, your freight company made the most money!" You're playing against yourself here.

If people want to approach it that way, it's fine with me. I would rather build a role than buy one.

If I think I'll be outgunned in a dogfight, then I'll stick to protected routes until I feel otherwise. How is that any different than the real world? I'm not going to street race a Porsche if I'm driving an Accord. Doesn't keep me from having fun.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
I think you vastly underestimate SC's "core" customers. According to this: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals they ONLY have 923,859 Star Citizens signed up. Probably less when you factor in one person opening duplicate accounts.

On a global scale, that's not very many players. I think a LOT of people are interested but in wait-and-see mode. This project is unprecedented and thus there is a risk associated with this. Some people are risk-adverse.
Are you serious?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_PC_games

One million units shipped already puts you into pretty lofty territory. They're going to have to deliver in spades if they intend to sell to anyone they haven't already convinced.
 

RampantAndroid

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2004
6,591
3
81
But what are they "winning" in a game like Star Citizen? The whole point is to start from the beginning and find your own path. It's the journey that's the game - - not buying an expensive ship to increase some kind of K/D ratio.

It won't matter at all in SQ42, and it will only matter in Persistent Universe if you just want to jump in and start fighting / pirating in a fancy ship without actually having to use your brain enough to earn it through in-game economics.

Or maybe somebody wants to start out with a big, expensive freighter or salvage vessel...again, how are they "winning" when there is no end-game of "Yay, your freight company made the most money!" You're playing against yourself here.

If people want to approach it that way, it's fine with me. I would rather build a role than buy one.

If I think I'll be outgunned in a dogfight, then I'll stick to protected routes until I feel otherwise. How is that any different than the real world? I'm not going to street race a Porsche if I'm driving an Accord. Doesn't keep me from having fun.
So you're OK with games like BF3+ allowing you to buy the weapons that you normally need to unlock? Some of those weapons taking hundreds of hours of gameplay giving players a bit of an advantage? Sure, you can get them yourself, but not without spending the next month in game...
 

Stringjam

Golden Member
Jun 30, 2011
1,871
33
91
So you're OK with games like BF3+ allowing you to buy the weapons that you normally need to unlock? Some of those weapons taking hundreds of hours of gameplay giving players a bit of an advantage? Sure, you can get them yourself, but not without spending the next month in game...

Why would I care? There will always be somebody with more money or more time to spend than me. Doesn't keep me from enjoying the game, or shooting them in the head.

I played a lot of BF3 and BF4. I never bought anything besides the game, and I never felt like any of those guys had some insurmountable advantage because they bought nicer guns. A good player could still come in and take out a good lot of them with a default weapon.

Star Citizen isn't really a good comparison to a MP FPS, though. If you play this game like a spreadsheet of stats, what's the point of even playing?
 
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irishScott

Lifer
Oct 10, 2006
21,568
2
0
The reason I'm so negative about this game is that it looked like it was perfect. You can buy cool ships, or earn them in the single player (with story) or multiplayer parts of the game. But then came all the other features (creeping on in) and delays.

Have they release how much cash they still have on hand? I think they're spending more on marketing than people realize, which means they have less than $85 million to develop the game. I think this game is more likely to run out of money than it is to put out a quality space sim.
They're still getting 10s of thousands each day in addition funding, and the starship sales still spike into the hundreds of thousands. Granted they can only keep it up so long, but I don't think money is an immediate concern.
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
Chris Roberts says 2 to 3 million played Wing Commander. Then you factor in marketing when they do go retail.
And you have to factor in that this isn't 1990 consumers are spread across a vast array of platforms and different media all vying for their attention. 25 years ago, Wing Commander was the only game that did what it did. That's no longer the case.

Also, this game is being specifically designed to push hardware to the limit. How many of the non-rabid fans that have already put money in even have the computers to run it?

And marketing? That COSTS money. They're no longer marketing to the people who would be fans anyway, they're marketing to the people who have no idea what it is and are going to be hard sells. The return on marketing dollars for this product are going to be terrible.
 

rivethead

Platinum Member
Jan 16, 2005
2,635
106
106
Also, this game is being specifically designed to push hardware to the limit. How many of the non-rabid fans that have already put money in even have the computers to run it?
On the wiki link you posted earlier, Crysis did 3 million units. Not bad for a game notorious for being so demanding it blew up people's computers.

And here we have SC with less than a million citizens (which doesn't mean backers...you can sign up as a citizen to follow the company's progress/news/participate in the forums without being a backer).

No, I don't think SC has saturated any market yet. Especially considering how broad that market might end up being (space sim gamers, econ sim gamers, FPS gamers, SP story-driven gamers).

If I were to guess today, I'd guess SC/SQ42 will do 5 million units combined.
 

SithSolo1

Diamond Member
Mar 19, 2001
7,740
11
81
The number you should be looking at is the UEE Fleet not the Active Citizens:

Active Citizens = 924,088 = Number of accounts registered with RSI. No pledge required.

UEE Fleet = 732,547 = Number of accounts able to access Arena Commander. All of these accounts must have at least one ship package pledged.

The actual number of accounts with pledges is between the two but probably much closer to the UEE Fleet number. I have no doubt that the numbers will jump up once stuff starts releasing but I'm guessing they'll hit $100 million pledged before they hit 1 million pledges.
 

JSt0rm

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
27,399
3,943
126
One more:

"Be anyone do anything" lmao

Do you have any idea how long that would take to create? Not to mention how impossibly impossible it would be to do it.

For instance, I want to space poison people so they have to shit our their intestines into the completely accurate space toilet piping systems in the $450 space ship.

"Do anything without doing anything" - the dream of the neckbeard
 

ToySoldier

Member
Dec 17, 2003
186
0
76
And you have to factor in that this isn't 1990 consumers are spread across a vast array of platforms and different media all vying for their attention. 25 years ago, Wing Commander was the only game that did what it did. That's no longer the case.

Also, this game is being specifically designed to push hardware to the limit. How many of the non-rabid fans that have already put money in even have the computers to run it?

And marketing? That COSTS money. They're no longer marketing to the people who would be fans anyway, they're marketing to the people who have no idea what it is and are going to be hard sells. The return on marketing dollars for this product are going to be terrible.
They start the game in ZERO debt with $MILLIONS$ in reserve plus whatever they make with the Squadron 42 chapters/episodes. I know I will be buying each one after the first couple of free ones.

Nothing stops them from more "concept" development financing.

They will be just fine.

Conservatively I'm guessing they double the # of Backers/Game package buyers when it goes retail and the price won't be a 'cheap' $45 and no starter ship.



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