Standby Generators FTW

[JM Aggie08]

As I'm sure most are aware, the gulf coast area/greater Houston got absolutely DICKED by Beryl a week ago today. Some 2.2M people were without power, and still several hundred thousand are without today. We've had a pretty soggy spring and early summer -- this combined with stronger than expected winds took out LOTS of very large trees resulting in a ton of downed power lines and substations.

We previously had a standby generator installed at our old house given then frequency of extended outages in the area and just did the same a couple of months back at the new crib. Thank CHRIST. I can't fathom potentially still being without power for a week in this heat, especially with kids. I'm frankly surprised there haven't been more fatalities due to heat-related illness.

 

[Stopsignhank]

A week without power in that heat would suck!!

We live in a a fire hazard area where they turn off the power when the Santa Ana winds blow. Think high hot winds. My son with autism HATES when the power is out so we got a standby generator. It saves all of us a lot of anxiety, plus we can watch TV and run the AC while the winds are blowing. So it is a win-win.

 

[Tech Junky]

Most of the issue is the above ground lines. Add to that the gulf breeze and salty air. It's been this way for decades though and leadership doesn't get the idea behind insanity.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

Cue us in on your fuel bill when you get it.


Mine is LP so I have to make sure I have enough on hand.

 

[Dr. Detroit]

What's the installed cost on one of these dual-fuel NG gen sets?

Does the NG ever stop running?

 

[dave_the_nerd]

My dad was without power in Michigan for a couple days this week. Very glad he got a generator a couple years ago after another big storm left them without for a week..

 

[Tech Junky]

There's probably a servo motor that enables the NG when an outage is detected and operated by a small battery.

 

[Red Squirrel]

I have solar on my shed and ran power to the house and have a few outlets I can plug stuff into. It has come in handy quite a few times already this summer. We seem to get lot of power outages now in summer, they only last a few hours so it's nice to be able to keep my network running or even be able to make coffee or microwave something. It's also saved me while I was working from home.

My server stuff, TV and office workstation are on -48v power now running on inverter power constantly so it's 100% seamless when power goes out. For now I just have the rectifiers transfer immediately to solar as I don't have a big battery bank yet. I plan to eventually automate that to do it power outage or not, since solar is free so may as well try to use it more.

I also bought a generator recently but just need to wire it in properly. Will go through the shed and have it power the solar outlets and charge the solar battery too. I already used it once so far, just had extension come in the house and plugged the rectifiers into it.

 

[BoomerD]

Couldn't justify the $10,000-$15,000 it would take to get a whole house stand-by generator, (all electric including hot water and heat) so I went with a small-ish portable generator that provides 3650 running watts and up to 4560 starting watts. It will run about 12-14 hours on a tank of gasoline (2.3 gallons at 25% load) and OVER 20 hours on a 5 gallon propane tank. So far, in nearly 3 years, I've had to use it 3-4 times...the longest was about 4 hours.

4650W Electric Start Dual Fuel Inverter – Champion Power Equipment

Our 4650-watt inverter generator features Dual Fuel allowing the 212cc engine to run on gasoline or propane. Enjoy the quiet 61 dBA for up to 14 hours on gasoline or up to 21 hours with a 20-lb propane tank and increase your power with the optional Parallel Kit.

www.championpowerequipment.com

 

[deadlyapp]

We haven't bit the bullet on a full standby genset (also in Houston) however this may have put us over the edge.

We were running an 8500W/10000 portable that is wired to transfer switch but isn't quite large enough to comfortably run our central air, so we just had a window AC in our master bedroom to at least allow us to run in there every so often to cool off.

I think at last count I used right around 30, maybe 35 gallons of gas from Monday when we lost power to Thursday afternoon when it came back on.

It worked well, but definitely waking up in the wee hours of the night to refill it was a bit of a pain.

I'm going to try to put a soft start on the whole house AC to see if we could run it in a pinch if needed - not really in the mood for spending $5-7k on a whole home genset yet.

 

[mindless1]

It worked well, but definitely waking up in the wee hours of the night to refill it was a bit of a pain.

What if you just didn't? Battery powered alarm clock/cell-phone/whatever to wake up on time, and if the A/C was working, it shouldn't heat up all that much overnight, and fridge and freezer if set low, won't warm up that much in a few hours if the doors aren't open.

This assumes the generator isn't a crap design that the manufacturer (not some web blog BS) states will be damaged running dry with a load.

 

[Tech Junky]

shouldn't heat up all that much overnight

Night time temps around 80. It's still warm at night.

 

[Tech Junky]

Just as bad with the freeze but opposite direction with indoor temps dropping into the 50's after extended outages.

 

[mindless1]

Night time temps around 80. It's still warm at night.

80F is not what I'd call as comfortable as lower, but depending on humidity, quite tolerable for most people. Even here, where it is humid right now, I only have the AC set down to 78.

Night temps dropping low in winter wouldn't bother me at all unless it got so cold as to burst pipes. Otherwise, if it's say 70F when the generation cuts out in the middle of the night, and the home doesn't leak like a sieve, it shouldn't get below 55F by morning, but even 40F, not a big deal with a couple blankets on in bed. I mean we're only talking short term here, not a life long plan.

 

[Tech Junky]

@mindless1

You obviously don't live in the southern part of the country. Humidity in summer is typically the biggest issue as it's sub tropical near the coast not a breezy experience typically. The humidity is typically 70%+ and if you factor in a hurricane it's even worse.

As to the cold... When you go w/o heat running for 8+ hours it's going to get chilly inside and the sun isn't able to break through to warm things up passively. Before the deep freeze temps were in the 60's which doesn't give much radiant heat to draw off of when it drops to the 20's and we aim to keep the heat out and cold in around here. When your AC runs ~18 hours a day to both cool and dehumidify to prevent mold indoors there's a balance to get to between the two.

Now, if we were talking Phoenix where it's dry as a bone it's a different feel once acclimated to the area. If you're in the midwest you crap your pants when it hits 80 but, out in the middle of winter in shorts in the 30's. PNW is damp and chills you to the bone. NE they have no sense of pain but, use window AC vs central AC.

It's all relative to your location and experience in different regions. Physiologically your body adapts over time as well to adjust to the median temps you're exposed to daily. If you're used to hot/humid it's hard to not want a coat when it drops to the 60's. If you're coming out of hibernation though when it hits 60 you're thinking it's summer.

 

[dullard]

I did a lot of research into generators last year. No matter how I crunched the numbers, I just couldn't justify the price of a whole house generator where I live (Great Plains).

I finally settled on a partial-house battery backup. I got the Bluetti AC300 inverter with two B300 batteries. See here $1999 for the inverter with one battery and $1499 more for a second battery. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09SYKRGK2/ It works quite well with the short power outages (mostly a few hours or less) that we deal with. Powers the fridge, deep freezer, and office (for internet) for three days. If I hook up the heater fan (natural gas for actual heat), then it lasts about a day. Sometime I'll wire it up to the bedroom and a bathroom but I just haven't bothered yet. It wouldn't power the whole house or an AC, but I'm okay with that.

Edit: Note there is a 30% federal tax credit for batteries like the one linked above (requires a minimum of a total of 3 kWhr battery storage in any combination and must be attached to your main house).

Eventually, I'd like to add in a tri-fuel generator to keep it running longer or hook up two solar panels directly to the generator/battery (my current solar panels turn off with a power outage by law to protect line workers, but if some were connected directly to the generator then there is no issue). That way, I could at least keep the food cold and internet running indefinitely. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Champio...rator-CO-Shield-NG-LPG-Hoses-201223/325991436

 

[JM Aggie08]

We got a 26kW Briggs for our house (3000sqft main home with a 5-ton hvac, electric furnace, pool pump, and an exterior building with a mini split) -- we didn't want to compromise on any usage in the event of a prolonged outage.

It was ~$16k installed. That includes the unit, transfer switch, power modules on HVAC, plumbing a branched gas line, all electrical, and monitoring by the installer/service provider. We did have to get our gas meter upgraded to a 2lb. model and had 1lb. step-down regulators installed on the pool heater and house gas line.

We've experienced close to 10 extended (>24hr) outages in the last few years, mostly in the summer months. With young children, including a baby, it was a no-brainer and we've been very happy, especially after this last hurricane.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

"See here $1999 for the inverter with one battery and $1499 more for a second battery. "

I've got about that much into a 16Kw propane model and transfer switch. Maybe another $1500 in cable/wire, parts and hardware, concrete and so on. Did all the work myself.

 

[dullard]

"See here $1999 for the inverter with one battery and $1499 more for a second battery. "

I've got about that much into a 16Kw propane model and transfer switch. Maybe another $1500 in cable/wire, parts and hardware, concrete and so on. Did all the work myself.

Those work well too. Some things that tilted me to the battery route was:

• 30% federal tax credit, dropping the final price to about $2750 after you include the transfer switch and wiring (I did the relatively minor wiring work myself).
• No maintenance. At least the Generac models that I looked at cost $200/year for maintenance packages.
• No noticeable noise
• No need to pick up propane or other fuel (which might not be available in an actual emergency)
• I already have solar panels, so ultimately the energy would be free once I bother to wire a couple of them up to the battery instead of the electric panel.
• Instant UPS power, no need to turn on a generator. Computers don't even notice the power goes out.
• Minor points: it is fun to have energy consumption graphs, nice to have a light in my utility room when power is out, etc.

Not saying that fuel generators are bad. Fuel generators are cheap if you need a large amount of power. It was just not quite right for my needs.

 

[repoman0]

I did a lot of research into generators last year. No matter how I crunched the numbers, I just couldn't justify the price of a whole house generator where I live (Great Plains).

I finally settled on a partial-house battery backup. I got the Bluetti AC300 inverter with two B300 batteries. See here $1999 for the inverter with one battery and $1499 more for a second battery. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09SYKRGK2/ It works quite well with the short power outages (mostly a few hours or less) that we deal with. Powers the fridge, deep freezer, and office (for internet) for three days. If I hook up the heater fan (natural gas for actual heat), then it lasts about a day. Sometime I'll wire it up to the bedroom and a bathroom but I just haven't bothered yet. It wouldn't power the whole house or an AC, but I'm okay with that.

Eventually, I'd like to add in a tri-fuel generator to keep it running longer or hook up two solar panels directly to the generator/battery (my current solar panels turn off with a power outage by law to protect line workers, but if some were connected directly to the generator then there is no issue). That way, I could at least keep the food cold and internet running indefinitely. https://www.homedepot.com/p/Champio...rator-CO-Shield-NG-LPG-Hoses-201223/325991436

I’ve thought about the battery backup route. I have an enphase rooftop solar setup already so their batteries would integrate nicely. So far haven’t been able to justify it because I’ve only lost power once here in five years for about an hour or two. I think we are pretty high priority for the power company since a local hospital is down the road.

My sump pump is by far the most critical piece of equipment in the house and I already have a backup pump connected to it with a big old AGM car battery. Learned my lesson with that one and got a basement remodel out of it.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

"No maintenance. "


Batteries have to be replaced every few years. They COULD cost more than the annual maintenance and propane or other fuel combined. Mine doesn't cost me any set amount per year though. Oil and filter is all it needs ... short of a failure

I have UPSs scattered all over the house. They cover the switchover.

Noicse IS an issue however and one that can't be avoided.

 

[repoman0]

Batteries have to be replaced every few years.

Not even true for lead acid and not remotely true for any lithium ion chemistry.

edit: the enphase batteries I mentioned above have a 15 year warranty — about what I’d expect out of a high quality lithium battery with very good battery management software.

 

[dullard]

Batteries have to be replaced every few years.

Not even true for lead acid and not remotely true for any lithium ion chemistry.

Do note, there are two main lithium chemistries: (1) lithium ion and (2) lithium iron phosphate.

Lithium ion is the one that gets a bad rap. Doesn't handle too many charges and can be a fire hazard. I would personally avoid batteries like Goal Zero or Jackery for those reasons. But it is extremely lightweight if you want it in a car or a cell phone.

Lithium iron phosphate can stand ~3500 full drains and charges. That should last me a lifetime since I don't do frequent drains/charges with my setup (I cycle it every few months and then whenever there is a power outage). And you can drill holes through a lithium iron phosphate battery with a large drill and it still often functions--no fire concern even with damage like that. But they are heavy.

 

[repoman0]

Do note, there are two main lithium chemistries: (1) lithium ion and (2) lithium iron phosphate.

Lithium ion is the one that gets a bad rap. Doesn't handle too many charges and can be a fire hazard. But it is extremely lightweight if you want it in a car or a cell phone.

Lithium iron phosphate can stand ~3500 full drains and charges. That should last me a lifetime since I don't do frequent drains/charges with my setup (I cycle it every few months and then whenever there is a power outage). And you can drill holes through a lithium iron phosphate battery with a large drill and it still often functions--no fire concern even with damage like that. But they are heavy.

Yep. I put a LiFePO in my car. They’re not that heavy! About a quarter the weight of a lead acid for similar capacity. I expect it to last about a decade.

We run regular lithium ion in drones at work with no real safety systems to speak of. Sometimes we drain them too much during a flight. They bloat and we poke holes in them to make a big fire and make them relatively safe to pick up and transport again.

 

[spacejamz]

I just pulled the trigger on this Prime Deal...should make future blackouts a little more bearable...

Amazon.com