Standard transmission Toyota Corolla: Weak clutch now slips in gear

[CZroe]

My 2011 Toyota Corolla has always had a weak clutch but it just became a big deal because now it unexpectedly disengages when I accelerate or go up a hill.

When the car was brand new it would shake and shudder I'm first gear when accelerating from a stop under certain conditions... namely, uphill on the coldest winter days. I didn't think it was an issue to deal with under warranty because it only happened occasionally that first winter and only when the engine was cold. If I was in too much of a hurry to let it warm up I would just start slower in second gear for the first few stops on cold days.

After a few years it did get worse where it would start happening on days that were less and less cold but still not when the engine was warm. I continued with the same mitigations.

It also got better when a family member started getting my car serviced with 5W-40 instead of 0W-20. 5W-40 is what Toyota recommended for the same engine in previous year models and only switched to 0W-20 to meet CAFE standards for fuel economy.

It seems that Corollas burn a little bit of oil after production moved to Alabama and mine is one of those Alabama cars. This caught us off guard once when my engine got very low after going way too long between oil changes.

I switched back to 0W-20 Full Synthetic when I started servicing it again and the clutch slipping with a cold engine came back. I tolerated it like I did before, but eventually I had a cooling fan fail and my car overheated a few times before I got it replaced. This seems to have caused the oil to break down prematurely and I ended up almost over a quart low before I noticed back in October. I would just be driving along and when I'd hit the gas in a low gear to pass someone or something I'd feel the car pull for a second or two and then stop pulling as the tach revs up and the vehicle slows until I ease off and let them sync up again, all with no clutch inputs.

So, yeah, I topped off my oil and that problem went away, convincing me that it was somehow related to low/bad oil. I immediately got my oil change (0W-20) and got the cooling fan replaced. My clutch continued working fine for the last two months. Well, "fine" in the sense that it has always been since the car was new (slips from a stand-still when cold).

Suddenly, today, it wasn't "working fine" anymore. I made a turn that immediately crossed some railroad tracks forcing me to delay accelerating until I was past them, but as I tried to pick up speed I felt it accelerate for a second before the engine broke free and revved as if I had used the clutch to disengage it. I reflexively let off the gas and eased back onto it when I felt it "grab" only to have it break free and rev again when I resumed accelerating. It didn't seem to happen when I took the same turn again attempting to recreate it but perhaps that was because me engine was warmer or colder... I dunno considering that I didn't go far before I parked it a bit and doubled back after checking oil and such.

OK, so it's been a fun 8 years on this manual transmission but I think it's pretty clear my clutch is wearing out. If switching to 5W-40 gets my clutch to work normally again, should I just do that or is this something I need to get fixed on another level? Is replacing the clutch even economical on a car like this? It's over 160k miles.

 

[pauldun170]

Sounds like you do not understand how a manual transmission works.
Engine oil will have ZERO impact on clutch slippage because like majority of cars on the road, its a dry clutch.
If oil ends up in there, that mean you have a bigger problem of oil leaking on to the clutch due to a bad seal somewhere.
Clutch on properly driven Corolla of that gen should last 180K+ and are generally appropriate for the car. Corollas do not have weak clutches and the fact that you are now at 160K means that clutch design is not a factor here. When it comes to Corolla's, I would assume they end up in the junkyard with the original clutch.

If yours is shot at only 160K, then I would assume you had some bad habits through it's life and now its on the shorter end of typical lifespan for a Corolla clutch.

When the car was brand new it would shake and shudder I'm first gear when accelerating from a stop under certain conditions... namely, uphill on the coldest winter days. I didn't think it was an issue to deal with under warranty because it only happened occasionally that first winter and only when the engine was cold.

Why on earth would you not report that to the dealer when it was under warranty? Winter only? Could have been a simple engine mount problem from the factory.

It also got better when a family member started getting my car serviced with 10W-40 instead of 0W-20. 10W-40 is what Toyota recommended for the same engine in previous year models and only switched to 0W-20 to meet CAFE standards for fuel economy.

What century? Are they referencing the 1980's? 1970's.

30 years ago in was 10w30 and then it went to 5w30 in the mid 90's
In the 2000's, it went from 5w30 to 0w20 around 2010 or so.
A Corolla should be ok on what is recommended in your manual. It is not designed for 10w40

As for oil consumption, you did not establish how much oil you are consuming and you admitted to going to long between oil changes.
Some oil consumption is not unusual.

A Corolla clutch job is a fairly simple job for a FWD car and will run about 1K give a take a couple of hundred bucks depending on where you take it.
The oil consumption should be handled by switching to the heaviest factory recommended oil (5w20 or 5w30...check your manual...not your family members) and then you should check the oil monthly to establish consumption rates.
Instead of messing around with the oil, the first thing to check should have been when the last time the PCV valve was changed. That's a common CHEAP culprit when it comes to oil consumption changes.
As for consumption in general, having to add a quart every 5000 miles on a 2011 is not something to be concerned about.

You are at 160K on car that typically goes to 400K+.

 

[pauldun170]

Looking at your owners manual/maintenance guides

2011 Toyota Corolla Manuals & Warranties | Toyota Owners

Find everything you need to know about your 2011 Toyota Corolla in the Manuals & Warranties from Toyota Owners.

www.toyota.com

0w20 or 5w20 should be fine, changed every 5000.
The maintenance guide specifically tells you in bold on page 33 to check your oil monthly

https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms-s/T-MMS-11Corolla/pdf/T-MMS-11Corolla.pdf

Too further explain cold weather vibration.
Cold engines in cold weather + cold rubber on faulty motor mounts = Extra vibrations in lower gears under load at low to mid revs. NOTHING to do with the transmission or clutch.

If it were my car. I'd do the clutch job (1K) and ask them to swap out the PCV valve ($6 part) while they are in there. On a lot of cars, the PCV valve is in an easily accessible spot that anyone with basic tools can swap out in under 5 minutes but on your generation Corolla it requires removing the intake manifold. Still a DIY your self job that can be done in under 30 minutes but a bit more annoyance.
Top it off with a having them check the motor mounts and let them know she shivers when she's cold.

 

[mindless1]

I don't understand the issue. Clutches wear out, some sooner than others based on the aggressiveness of the driver, or temperature, or just which way the wind was blowing. This was not all that short a run for it.

yes it's worthwhile to replace the clutch, unless you just hate the vehicle and want to offload it to someone for minimal money instead of continuing to drive it. Unless it's rusting out you probably have another 100K mi left in it. 400K mi, I question that (the average corolla does not make it to 400K mi so that's more anecdotal of people gloating rather than proof, though there are many other things (accidents) that can cut that number short), otherwise it's more a matter of spending the money to get there when eventually the cost will exceed the vehicle value but it's certainly possible. SO, right now I would consider your vehicle worth more than the cost of a clutch replacement, so the math works out to do it.

Which oil grade is most appropriate depends on what climate you live in, and then sometimes the season of the year too, BUT this is separate from your tranny issues.

 

[Torn Mind]

Did that shady "Goodyear shop" in your wheel bearing thread diagnose this stuff for you?

Might be you really need a new shop ASAP and/or stick with automatics.

 

[CZroe]

Sounds like you do not understand how a manual transmission works.

I know how my motorcycles' clutches works and all of them are wet clutches. I knew Ducatis were weird since they used a dry clutch. My level of understanding is such that I didn't expect my car to be any different from a typical motorcycle. Now I know. Thanks.

Engine oil will have ZERO impact on clutch slippage because like majority of cars on the road, its a dry clutch.
If oil ends up in there, that mean you have a bigger problem of oil leaking on to the clutch due to a bad seal somewhere.
Clutch on properly driven Corolla of that gen should last 180K+ and are generally appropriate for the car.

Thanks. I'm over 164k miles so I'm not too far from that.

Corollas do not have weak clutches and the fact that you are now at 160K means that clutch design is not a factor here. When it comes to Corolla's, I would assume they end up in the junkyard with the original clutch.

Right. I was saying *my* Corolla has always had a weak clutch... not Corollas in general. Never thought they all did. Mine was always a little suspect but nothing I could demonstrate to the dealer when new/under warranty.

If yours is shot at only 160K, then I would assume you had some bad habits through it's life and now its on the shorter end of typical lifespan for a Corolla clutch.

I have been driving manual transmissions almost exclusively since I learned on a 1981 Toyota Celica in 1994 and detected that this clutch was slightly "weak" (read: problematic) when new.

I've also always been annoyed that the clutch on this car is not fully disengaged unless it is literally touching the floor and the raised footrest to the left often blocks your foot from going down that last half an inch. It will feel like your foot and the clutch is bottomed-out when the side of your shoe hits the foot rest mostly disengaged, but it's not.

Why on earth would you not report that to the dealer when it was under warranty? Winter only? Could have been a simple engine mount problem from the factory.

I've brought it up in general but it had only happened a few times ever in the first couple years and did not happen when the engine was warm. Until it was out of warranty it only got that cold here a few times a year (single digits, low teens). It was never an issue the dealer could reproduce to even verify an issue existed and, honestly, it wasn't an issue then since I wasn't likely to even experience it more than twice a year or so and even that wouldn't happen with a good warm up. I would tell them what I was there for and then "oh, by the way... I noticed that the clutch slips and grabs repeatedly, shaking the whole car when starting on a hill with a cold engine on particularly cold days... but maybe that's normal? Do I just need to let it warm up longer or something? It doesn't happen when the engine is warm." to which they would just shrug or tell me that warming up couldn't hurt.

What century? Are they referencing the 1980's? 1970's.

30 years ago in was 10w30 and then it went to 5w30 in the mid 90's
In the 2000's, it went from 5w30 to 0w20 around 2010 or so.
A Corolla should be ok on what is recommended in your manual. It is not designed for 10w40

I had recalled and even typed 5W-40 and then Googled to see what it actually was for older Corollas and must've found someone's typo. I literally went back through my post and changed every instance of 5W-40 to 10W-40. Oops. Clearly, I'm not an oil expert. I'll edit so it won't distract further.

As for oil consumption, you did not establish how much oil you are consuming and you admitted to going to long between oil changes.

I was saying that it burns so little that I would not notice if I had every oil change on time at Toyota's recommended interval (10K for full synthetic 0W-20). The one time we went beyond that was when I wasn't the one driving the car and doing the services and it was being put off so that it could be done at the same time as another major service. More recently I found it was low while getting the change on-time which I hope is attributable to something like the overheating or the PCV valve you suggested.

Some oil consumption is not unusual.

Yes. I said as much when I mentioned that all Toyota Corollas out of the Alabama plant consume oil (according to Scotty Kilmer). I only meant to point out that it was significantly accelerated this last time, presumably because of overheating from the failed radiator cooling fan. It may be wishful thinking so please tell me if you think that is likely or unlikely. Does overheating cause oil to breakdown faster? Could/would that possibly increase oil consumption? I assume it might.

A Corolla clutch job is a fairly simple job for a FWD car and will run about 1K give a take a couple of hundred bucks depending on where you take it.

Thanks. I guess another concern before spending the money is whether or not the issue was with the clutch itself or with something else that could continue to cause issues and premature clutch wear with a new clutch.

The oil consumption should be handled by switching to the heaviest factory recommended oil (5w20 or 5w30...check your manual...not your family members) and then you should check the oil monthly to establish consumption rates.
Instead of messing around with the oil, the first thing to check should have been when the last time the PCV valve was changed. That's a common CHEAP culprit when it comes to oil consumption changes.

Thanks. I'll check the records and get it done if it hasn't been.

FWIW, it wasn't that I consulted family members to get the wrong 5W-whatever oil. They were driving the vehicle and handling the maintenance while I drove and maintained a different vehicle.

As for consumption in general, having to add a quart every 5000 miles on a 2011 is not something to be concerned about.

You are at 160K on car that typically goes to 400K+.

Yes. Definitely not concerned by that. Hope I'll get a lot closer to that if I can get this clutch thing sorted. Said back when I bought the car that I intended to drive it into the ground.

 

[CZroe]

About the worst I've done to this clutch is an occasional aggressive acceleration out of a turn in a low gear... but what's the point of a manual if you never downshift for a turn?

Looking at your owners manual/maintenance guides

2011 Toyota Corolla Manuals & Warranties | Toyota Owners

Find everything you need to know about your 2011 Toyota Corolla in the Manuals & Warranties from Toyota Owners.

www.toyota.com

0w20 or 5w20 should be fine, changed every 5000.
The maintenance guide specifically tells you in bold on page 33 to check your oil monthly

https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/document/omms-s/T-MMS-11Corolla/pdf/T-MMS-11Corolla.pdf

Too further explain cold weather vibration.
Cold engines in cold weather + cold rubber on faulty motor mounts = Extra vibrations in lower gears under load at low to mid revs. NOTHING to do with the transmission or clutch.

If it were my car. I'd do the clutch job (1K) and ask them to swap out the PCV valve ($6 part) while they are in there. On a lot of cars, the PCV valve is in an easily accessible spot that anyone with basic tools can swap out in under 5 minutes but on your generation Corolla it requires removing the intake manifold. Still a DIY your self job that can be done in under 30 minutes but a bit more annoyance.
Top it off with a having them check the motor mounts and let them know she shivers when she's cold.

What I was experiencing was DEFINITELY transmission/clutch.

Normally, you ease off the clutch while giving gas until you reach the friction zone of the clutch and the revs start to dip. As the clutch starts to catch and the car starts to move you give it enough gas to prevent a stall as you lift off the clutch to start moving. This all happens in less than a second.

What happens when it is cold and starting uphill from a stop is that it starts to go but rather than picking up speed after you ease off the clutch, the clutch starts to grab and slip and grab and slip rapidly, causing the whole vehicle to shake and barely move. It feels like stalling the car except it doesn't stall and you get the same shake 5-8 times before it starts moving. This didn't happen when the car was warm so it isn't a case of not knowing how to operate the clutch.

I don't understand the issue. Clutches wear out, some sooner than others based on the aggressiveness of the driver, or temperature, or just which way the wind was blowing. This was not all that short a run for it.

yes it's worthwhile to replace the clutch, unless you just hate the vehicle and want to offload it to someone for minimal money instead of continuing to drive it. Unless it's rusting out you probably have another 100K mi left in it. 400K mi, I question that (the average corolla does not make it to 400K mi so that's more anecdotal of people gloating rather than proof, though there are many other things (accidents) that can cut that number short), otherwise it's more a matter of spending the money to get there when eventually the cost will exceed the vehicle value but it's certainly possible. SO, right now I would consider your vehicle worth more than the cost of a clutch replacement, so the math works out to do it.

Which oil grade is most appropriate depends on what climate you live in, and then sometimes the season of the year too, BUT this is separate from your tranny issues.

Thanks. My remaining concern is that this clutch seemed to have a minor issue from the start so I worry that it could cause premature clutch wear on a new clutch too.

Did that shady "Goodyear shop" in your wheel bearing thread diagnose this stuff for you?

Might be you really need a new shop ASAP and/or stick with automatics.

Agreed, but nothing has been diagnosed. Haven't talked to anyone about it yet. It happened just before working all day. No chance to look into it other than posting here as soon as I got off work.

Oh yeah... Never owned an automatic. Hate 'em.

 

[Torn Mind]

30 or 40 weight makes more sense for the hot and toasty summers of the American South while 30 weight will work fine during the winters there.

In Australia, a certain online website I cannot pull right now put forward even some recent Corollas are spec'd 40 weight oils for severe service. No doubt conditions allow for that spec even though it doesn't show up in the American manual.

This vid should help you diagnose and check all the parts in the system.

 

[deadlyapp]

I think most of your questions have been answered, but I did pick up somewhere that you felt like the clutch wasn't fully disengaged when pedal fully depressed - you can certainly check that quite easily and usually can adjust the pedal throw if it makes it feel better - but usually the clutch is fully disengaged without having to floor the pedal. The engagement window is pretty short and once the slave cylinder has pushed the throw out bearing, the clutch is fully disengaged.

I suspect you'll have a shop do the work, so while they're in there I would just have them completely flush the clutch fluid system, replace any rubber hoses, and adjust your clutch pedal. If there's an option to replace rubber hoses with stainless braided hoses, I would do it. Nothing worse than replacing a clutch only to have a rubber hose blow open a few months down the line.

 

[CZroe]

I think most of your questions have been answered, but I did pick up somewhere that you felt like the clutch wasn't fully disengaged when pedal fully depressed - you can certainly check that quite easily and usually can adjust the pedal throw if it makes it feel better - but usually the clutch is fully disengaged without having to floor the pedal. The engagement window is pretty short and once the slave cylinder has pushed the throw out bearing, the clutch is fully disengaged.

I suspect you'll have a shop do the work, so while they're in there I would just have them completely flush the clutch fluid system, replace any rubber hoses, and adjust your clutch pedal. If there's an option to replace rubber hoses with stainless braided hoses, I would do it. Nothing worse than replacing a clutch only to have a rubber hose blow open a few months down the line.

Thanks. That's exactly what I needed to know. It definitely isn't fully disengaged until you are all the way to the floor since the footrest to the left often stops your foot less than an inch from the floor and it still isn't quite enough. Early on I expected this to improve as the friction zone moves up the range of motion as the clutch developed wear, similar to how it works on a motorcycle clutch, but that never happened. On a motorcycle clutch the friction zone might move from the middle of the clutch lever until it is worn out. Then it might be at the very end of that range when releasing, even after you adjust the cables.