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Question *STABLE* NVMe - USB Adapter?

cyberjedi

Junior Member
Apr 4, 2010
21
10
81
I'm looking to buy a *RELIABLE* NVME-USB external adapter, that doesn't disconnect randomly, can keep up the close to 1GB/s speed.
So far all adapter's reviews contain frighteningly high % of reports of malfunction, random disconnects, sub-par speeds, falling to even under USB 2.0 speeds, etc.
There are 3 main chipsets in the market: JMicron JMS583, Asmedia ASM2362, and Realtek RTL9210 (no product has surfaced with the latter yet, so no REAL reviews, experiences yet UPDATE: it is on the market already).
Also ASUS has a new product, ROG Strix Arion, but there isn't enough feedback about it yet, and I mean real life feedback not just being able to run a few benchmarks, but real stress test to see if the device (adapter) can keep it up, without disconnecting or slowing down hard.
I would really appreciate any feedback from those who have GOOD experiences during stress-tests, like tons of random 4k writes with a stable speed, cloning 100's of GB-s at a stable high speed close to 1GB/s.
I know SSD's very well, so please stick to the point and don't start to educate me on how their speed falls after some writes, etc. I'm aware and this is NOT the point.
You can help if you can point me to a STABLE and RELIABLE NVMe-USB-C adapter that WORKS as expected.
Thank you in advance!
 
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fantom3l

Junior Member
Mar 22, 2020
3
3
41
For those interested i have uploaded RTL9210 firmware v1.20.12 from 12.02.2020 + v1.18.1 from 28.10.2019 and upgraders for x86 and x64 ( read the note inside) along with examples of configuration for upgrade from different devices.
You can find thepackage HERE .
Used already on 2 devices i have and i did not brick mine. As you will see in configuration you can change name of your device+ stanbytime .... + a lot more.Just edit the config as you wish, if not use the generic one.
Also for JMS583 i have uploaded all firmwares i could find during time HERE including the latest 0208 with different configurations for standby time including the no standby one.
 
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waterboyd

Junior Member
Nov 30, 2019
4
6
41
got realtek 2weeks ago but bad luck I accidentally dropped PCB while remove. port type-c soldering cracked I need some mobile phone repair shop help.
but I do some test before accident happen. The RTL9210 read transfer rate for data 4K slightly lower than ASM2362, both are working 10gbps stable no random disconnect.


 

eddieobscurant

Junior Member
Oct 19, 2015
13
5
81
If you guys need the latest firmware for jmicron or realtek here they are from jeyi link
They should probably work with other brands with the same controllers but you try it at your own risk.
I have the jeyi i9 (jms583) and it upgrades to fw 0208
I downloaded the one with 5minutes (there was no delay though)
 

Surgeon100

Junior Member
Apr 3, 2020
5
0
6
Just an update regarding the Ugreen (ASM2362 chip) enclosure.
It has been 100% stable during the last two days. No disconnections or interruptions. I had the drive working for 10 hours straight, downloading and gaming, without a hiccup.
The bechmark results are lower than before (around 720mb/s read and 900mb/s write vs 970mb/s read and 990mb/s write on CrystalDisk). However, when transfering files, it seems quicker at 700ish mb/s vs 650ish mb/s with the JMS583 based SSK enclosure.
 

BrallyO

Junior Member
Feb 22, 2020
13
2
41
I'm declaring my RTL9210 stable. Everything where the multiple JMicron adapters I tested failed is working great on the RTL9210, and it runs super cool. On the JMIcrons I was able to hit thermal throttling on multiple SSDs, even with all the thermal pads applied.

For example, the hottest SSD I have is a 500GB Samsung EVO 960 that starts throttling at 70C, which was easy to hit with sustained reads/writes on the JMicron adapters. On the RTL9210 I can't get it over 36C with ambient at 27C. Basically it runs +5C ambient and about +10C at full-throttle after 5-minutes. The difference is crazy.

I can't talk too much about performance because I don't really care as long as it's decent. I did run Crystalmark once and it looked similar to the other bencharks I've seen: The JMicrons are better in a few places and the Realtek is better in others but they are pretty similar and seem mostly limited by the USB port.

I ran tests on both Windows and Linux on multiple computers, including booting and upgrading the OS from the drive itself, even with a USB extension cable that should be causing some power loss, the drive just works every time.
 

waterboyd

Junior Member
Nov 30, 2019
4
6
41
Hi I'm back....
4 months my usage environment
ASM2362 the best stable.
RTL9210 sometime fault.

If you guys need the latest firmware for jmicron or realtek here they are from jeyi link
They should probably work with other brands with the same controllers but you try it at your own risk.
I have the jeyi i9 (jms583) and it upgrades to fw 0208
I downloaded the one with 5minutes (there was no delay though)
OH MY GOD!!! JEYI firmware fixed my Orico JMS583 ugly bug always run USB2.0 when connect Orico USB Hub 10Gbps.
Well done! Many Thanks!


 

kaefers

Junior Member
Jun 12, 2020
9
5
36
@kaefers
about the failure to update the firmware, could it be that version 1.20.12 (which is also older than the 1.21.10 already present) is simply only for the RTL9210 chipset and therefore not fully compatible with the RTL9210B chipset?
The attached log shows the error related to the different "Pkg Type" ("PCIE" for the 9210 chipset and "PCIE_SATA" for the 9210B). Also the "PCIE_PWRCUT_THRES" which should disable the pcie power after X minutes in idle mode seems to have a different value than the others listed in the various .cfg and .txt files of the "RTL9210_fw1.20.12.7z" package.

I've ordered the same Orico M2PJM-C3 enclosure but I'm afraid I'll have to wait many days before I get it.
From what I see, it seems the 9201 is NVME only, while the 9201B is a separate product that does dual NVME/SATA.
Thanks for your input!
I guess the 9210B is the NVMe/SATA chip and different from 9210 NVMe-only, and not fully compatible. I wrote the seller on AliExpress and Orico, asking nicely for a FW update... let's see.

Also, somehow, I did manage to get a partial update done, got to 15% then failed, but the dump from MPtool now reads as below...

So now I seem to have FW Ver 1.17.4 (I don't know where this is from, there is either 1.20.x or 1.18.x or 4.17.x but I have no 1.17.4 anywhere lol), and it also seems PCIE_PWRCUT_THRES is 0x00, so I should be good - need to test it out still if the enclosure works properly :)

EDIT:
Some images of the Asus and Orico enclosures. Clearly (as usual) the Asus is overdone and it's thermal pad is also not great (this is an old thermal pad, ordered new ones, the orignal Asus one did not allow me to close the lid properly, thermal pad too thick.. I really like the Orico, although the Asus does a better job in terms of thermals, but weighs like 3x as much.

EDIT2: Seems like the Orico enclosure still works, CDM7 about the same as before..
 

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kaefers

Junior Member
Jun 12, 2020
9
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I have put the ORICO M2PJM-C3 (RLT9210) and Asus Arion (ASM2362) to the test with a 2TB Samsung 970 Evo Plus, OS Win10Pro, OS drive a Samsung 1TB 970 Pro, Asus X570 C8I.

Aside from the thermal advantage for the Asus, I would go with the smaller and overall very well performing Orico...
 

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Andalu

Member
Jun 25, 2020
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first good news: now the nvme finally goes into stand-by mode after the 5 minutes set even after using Crystaldisk Mark and CrystalDisk Info. Also the resuming from the stand-by mode is OK.

The first two consecutive performance tests (enclosure connected into the USB port n.1 to avoid problems :)) are good as expected for an nvme disk even if the temperature reached 62 degrees already at the end of the second benchmark, but this is not new.
1.Bench on 0209.png 2.Bench on 0209.png
 
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Dec 6, 2008
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ok so mangaed to update the firmware but using the same JMMassProd.in * since it is for my hid after all , removed the SSD, renamed to JMS583_0209 and redirected to C:\JMS583_0209 * left it there, the default path was a mess. i was greated with a pass pass and FAIL. but it seems it was refering to partition and since i had no SSD inside i guees it was that. disconnected, retested and now it detects on all gen 2 ports and all pcs! moved 50gb with no issues * a bit slower 750 vs 800... but i did it in the port it wasnt working before. also speed is grok.jpgfail.jpgeat. so it worked! * it shows as rev 0209 now * edit lol i left partition an format, lucky me no ssd inside! cheked
 
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Charlie22911

Senior member
Mar 19, 2005
608
227
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I don’t believe the issues are power related. My dual 2.5” bus powered raid enclosure draws more power than this and doesn’t have issues.
Photo attached is power draw while doing crystal disk mark run. Cable is Apple thunderbolt 3, attached to the 10Gbps/thunderbolt 3 port on my Aero 15x.

EDIT:
Attached another image of the aforementioned dual 2.5 enclosure, also running crystal disk mark. My JMS583 enclosure will *not* run at all on this same port. Even though (as you can see from the other image) it draws much lower power (4.13w vs 7.13w).
 

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Andalu

Member
Jun 25, 2020
82
56
51
I decided to stress my JMS583 polycarbonate enclosure (to which I added 3 thermal pads) with the firmware 2.0.9 on the USB3.1 gen.2 port number two of my asus Q370 board and for the first time even after 4 consecutive benchmarks, I didn't recognize any performance degradation even if the temperature reached 71 degrees in the last test. It had never happened before, there was always a loss of performance within the second consecutive test, especially when connected to that specific port:
Image 001.png Image 002.pngImage 003.pngImage 004.png
 

Andalu

Member
Jun 25, 2020
82
56
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Here my tests with the RTL9210 chipset (only pcb without brand to connect to USB port type 'A', no enclosure):
Image 1.png Image 2.pngImage 3.pngImage 4.png

The standby mode is activated after one minute. No disconnection even if in idle. The safe-remove command does not work properly because its LED is always on (for one minute, then it goes into standby mode).
I'm still waiting for the orico enclosure with the RTL9210B.
 

Shonky

Junior Member
Aug 14, 2020
1
1
41
Why are you all messing with the nvram you dont know the exact variables used at the factory and all 99% of people need to do is update the base firmware

In my case i took a backup of the complete firmware with the factory nvram before i started messing around

I have an AXE 512GB SSD (480 GB TLC Dramless) its a turnkey sollution built by Phison and id's as Phison PU31
Its a Phison PS5013-E13 PCIe 4x Nvme Drive with a JMS583

Mine came with JMS583 Firmware 195.02.00.04

I presume the important part is 02.00.04 and the 195 is just some custom revision for phison e.g. a custom 00.02.00.04
I updated it to 00.02.00.09

There are two ways to do it without Changing the nvram

1) Use the JM2033X FW Update Utility ticking RD Version and unitcking Include NVRAM (you can also use this to backup your complete JMS583 firmware with nvram vars)
or
2) Use JMMassProd_v1_16_15_12 and setting EnEEPROMUpdate=0 in the ini this way it only updates the firmware and nothing else

There are so many downsides to changing the nvram var's that its just not worth it

NVME Passthrough doesnt work so you cant access the smart data or the NVME drive firmware etc for flashing/dumping nand info
you have to go chasing down everything for the JMMassProd.ini
VenderID=13FE
ProductID=2570
StringA=Phison PU31
StringB=PU31
StringC=Phison
String3=MYSERIAL

Now im sure i could get NVME Passthrough working with a setting in the ini
but im not going to get every var 100% the same

I really advise anyone doing this to take a complete backup of the firmware with the nvram
and only flash the firmware without messing with your nvram


Internals 1.jpgInternals 2.jpgInternals 3.jpgInternals 4.jpgInternals 5.jpg
 
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Jun 10, 2020
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I tried to fill missing info and avoid confusion since you mentioned usb gen 3.2 which may just be a marketting trap if advertised as 3.2 but perform same as 3.0 as described above (i.e gen 1) but again it may be gen 2 with 10Gbps Support. So what is important is gen 1 vs gen 2.
 

Andalu

Member
Jun 25, 2020
82
56
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Lately in this thread you can read some posts containing statements as if they were absolute truths even if they do not come from direct experiences that can be replicated and verified by anyone or for which no reliable source is quoted.

Some of them ("RTL9210 is faster and also supports 10Gbs on USB-A"), seems to be the proof of the non-reading of the whole thread and has already been opportunely rejected by @apoelistasaudi.

About the same statement and another one, perhaps the most interesting in the part concerning the reachable peak (1.212 MB/s vs 1 GB/s) (for the effective lanes no source has been provided until now, although explicitly requested by another user) from the two JMS583 and RTL9210 chipsets, I asked myself: what better opportunity to find a confirmation to this thesis than to use a PCI Express to USB 3.2 Gen.2x2 card (ASM3242 chipset) with a bandwidth of 20GBps?

And that's exactly what I did, using the same samsung 970evo NVMe and a Thunderbolt3 cable for both chipsets.
Here are the results, verifiable and replicable by anyone interested, where a different reality is highlighted:
the JMS583 chipset got better results in almost all the tests performed and I don't see the RTL9210 chipset reach the peak of 1.2 GB/s in any benchmark.

On the left side information and results for the RTL9210 chipset (firmware 1.23.9) and on the right side those related to the JMS583 chipset (revision A0 - firmware 2.0.9):

1. RTL9210 info.png 2. JMS583 info.png

1a. RTL9210 Anvil.png 2a. JMS583 Anvil.png

1b. RTL9210 AS.png 2b. JMS583 AS.png

1c. RTL9210 Atto.png 2c. JMS583 Atto.png

1d. RTL9210 CrystalDiskMark.png 2d. JMS583 CrystalDiskMark.png


P.S.: as already said, I didn't want to intervene anymore, but so approximate information has been reported that I couldn't avoid to do it.
 

VirtualLarry

Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
49,609
5,625
126
You should look up the thread that we had here, complaining and asking about Stable USB3.0 external HDDs. I've come to the conclusion that USB 3.x itself is NOT STABLE.

Get a mechanical PCI-E slot internal adapter if you want stable.
 
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cyberjedi

Junior Member
Apr 4, 2010
21
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You should look up the thread that we had here, complaining and asking about Stable USB3.0 external HDDs. I've come to the conclusion that USB 3.x itself is NOT STABLE.

Get a mechanical PCI-E slot internal adapter if you want stable.
Dear VirtalLarry, I have already a PCI-E slot internal adapter, it works as expected. I need the external USB adapter for other purposes.
I do understand that you have found that USB 3.x is not stable - but I can't accept this as a fact or excuse from the manufacturers.
 

Insert_Nickname

Diamond Member
May 6, 2012
3,881
521
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It seems there isn't a lot you can do right now. Most of this type of gear is clearly first generation, and probably needs at least a few firmware revisions before becoming truly stable.

If you need something right now, you may have to settle for 5Gbit USB3 for maximum compatibility. Fortunately it's not too bad, you can get very decent speeds (~450MB/s sequential) with a UASP compatible adaptor. For all practical purposes its completely indistinguishable from an internal SATA drive.

With a decent SATA SSD (Samsung 860EVO, Crucial MX500), I'd question whether anyone really -needs- a faster external drive for consumer applications. Of course, its quite alright to want the fastest gear on the market. No excuses needed.

I do understand that you have found that USB 3.x is not stable - but I can't accept this as a fact or excuse from the manufacturers.
This partly has to do with cable length and quality (shielding). 5Gbit USB3* is picky once you go much over 2m. 10Gbit USB3 is hellishly pickish over much more then 0.5m, you need a cable with really good signal integrity to get more then about a metre. Keep in mind this includes any internal cabling from mainboard to socket. Of course, you can use a powered hub or booster cable if you need longer reach. There are even a few 10Gbit ones slowly creeping onto the market.

*Referring to it that way is easier then trying to keep up with the USB Forums naming conventions... :(
 

cyberjedi

Junior Member
Apr 4, 2010
21
10
81
Okay, so far I've also seen that cables differ in quality. I'm willing to use an aapter that plugs in dierctly to an USB port, without cable (into a laptop, or backside USB port of a desktop, that is soldered onto the motherboard, so there is no cable involved, as in front-USB ports).

Like this one: 61O0e2yV23L._AC_SL1000_.jpg

Still, I'm looking for very stable ones that maintain high speed.
 

aigomorla

Cases and Cooling Mod PC Gaming Mod Elite Member
Super Moderator
Sep 28, 2005
18,293
986
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i noticed most of them connect and then disconnect randomly if left plugged in, which makes using it as a perm drive a PITFA.
 

cyberjedi

Junior Member
Apr 4, 2010
21
10
81

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
11,868
137
106
I've got this one and it's served me well. I'm using it on a USB 3.0 port at 5 Gbps.

 

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