SSN Advice

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
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Hello all,

My wife and I are both Canadian. I am on an H1B and she is on an H4 (spousal non-working equivalent). As such she was not given a SSN. Instead, she was given an Tax-ID.

Unfortunately the vast majority of American lifestyle is built around SSNs. From credit to bank accounts to cell phones to land lines, everything requires a SSN. There are a few exceptions that have gladly accepted the Tax-ID, but most have given problems or down right refused service.

I have phoned SSA, and they said there was nothing that could be done. But I have also been told that the agents who answer the phones aren't necessarily the best people to talk to about this (same problem with phoning Dell CS)

Is there a type of lawyer or organization that I can talk to get a more definitive answer? Are there any ways that I don't know about that will allow my wife to get a SSN? Thanks.
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
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71
Originally posted by: nord1899
An immigration lawyer maybe?

I just did (the one who is handling my H1B port) and he suggested that I call SSA because he thought that she should be able to get one with an H4.

I will talk to him again but he said that it is not an immigration issue but it is instead a social services issue.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
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Mar 20, 2000
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i hate blatant misuse of social security numbers like that
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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First let me assure you with absolute certainty that the monkeys you're talking to in SSA that you get when you call the 1-800 wouldn't even know how to smear their own feces over their bodies if given a 30 minute instructional video tape.

We had a hell of a time with the SSA and MrsSkoorb trying to get an SSN. She was on a TD (it's like an H4 based from your H1, but rather a TD is based off of a TN) and was unable to get one. I spent hours scouring the web and talking to a couple of vegetables at SSA as well and concluded in the end that there was simply no way for her to get one. Given your predicament your wife won't be able to get one through the rarely available means such as qualifying for medicaid (something like that - I can't quite remember the details). I found something minorly encouraging that had to do with her getting a student loan and through some convoluted means would qualify for one then because those who give out the loans need one, and that qualifies her through SSA to get one.

Essentially though your wife probably does not qualify for one. As you've found most places won't even let you take a piss without an SSN, so you run into problems like getting a driver's license, for instance. I know a woman on an H4 who got her license in Alabama (a state that "requires an SSN"). She used either her tax ID or her Canadian SIN. Every office in this state will say unequivocally that you need an SSN, but then what do they know? As I understand it this woman spoke to several people and figured out a deal such that the local SSA office gave her a note saying that she does not qualify for an SSN, and then she found elsewhere proof that in fact an SSN is not needed for a driver's license. Your mileage may vary.

MrsSkoorb finally got hers by qualifying for a TN in Tennessee and then with that work authorization she got her SSN. Since an SSN was _needed_ for a nursing license in AL she then qualified for a nursing license in AL, got it, then went back for a TN Visa in AL and now works here (she originally did indeed plan to work in Tenneesse for a while but the commute became unreasonable in short order). The process was ridiculous, made us angry as hell, and nearly left the country. She graduated as a nurse in April of 02 and because of SSN issues it took her until January of 03 before she was finally able to work where she wanted.

SSA and INS need to sort this situation out because it just does not make sense. Unless various licensing bureaus and other such departments across the country will stop requiring an SSN as absolutely necessary SSA needs to make amends to allow SSNs to be given to legal aliens who do not otherwise qualify for them through work authorization.

As I understand it the only way for the AL board of nursing to have waived their requirement was for the attorney general of the state, who made the rule in the first place, to go back on it. Good freaking luck.

Unfortunately I'm almost totally positive than an H4 holder does not qualify for an SSN. One route that you have of course is to get a greencard and file your wife as derivative status. Once she receives her EAD (employment authorization document), she can then file. If your employment requires a labor certification that is needed first. It takes at least a year, but once you have that you can file for your greencard and the EAD will be in your hands 2-3 months after that.

A good forums for you is at Grasmick.com Click on the forums on the left and post away. It caters specifically to Canadians and you should have a response within a day most likely.
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
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71
Originally posted by: ElFenix
i hate blatant misuse of social security numbers like that

Blatant misuse of SSN where?

I hope you are not referring to my thread.
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
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71
Originally posted by: Skoorb
First let me assure you with absolute certainty that the monkeys you're talking to in SSA that you get when you call the 1-800 wouldn't even know how to smear their own feces over their bodies if given a 30 minute instructional video tape.

We had a hell of a time with the SSA and MrsSkoorb trying to get an SSN. She was on a TD (it's like an H4 based from your H1, but rather a TD is based off of a TN) and was unable to get one. I spent hours scouring the web and talking to a couple of vegetables at SSA as well and concluded in the end that there was simply no way for her to get one. Given your predicament your wife won't be able to get one through the rarely available means such as qualifying for medicaid (something like that - I can't quite remember the details). I found something minorly encouraging that had to do with her getting a student loan and through some convoluted means would qualify for one then because those who give out the loans need one, and that qualifies her through SSA to get one.

Essentially though your wife probably does not qualify for one. As you've found most places won't even let you take a piss without an SSN, so you run into problems like getting a driver's license, for instance. I know a woman on an H4 who got her license in Alabama (a state that "requires an SSN"). She used either her tax ID or her Canadian SIN. Every office in this state will say unequivocally that you need an SSN, but then what do they know? As I understand it this woman spoke to several people and figured out a deal such that the local SSA office gave her a note saying that she does not qualify for an SSN, and then she found elsewhere proof that in fact an SSN is not needed for a driver's license. Your mileage may vary.

MrsSkoorb finally got hers by qualifying for a TN in Tennessee and then with that work authorization she got her SSN. Since an SSN was _needed_ for a nursing license in AL she then qualified for a nursing license in AL, got it, then went back for a TN Visa in AL and now works here (she originally did indeed plan to work in Tenneesse for a while but the commute became unreasonable in short order). The process was ridiculous, made us angry as hell, and nearly left the country. She graduated as a nurse in April of 02 and because of SSN issues it took her until January of 03 before she was finally able to work where she wanted.

SSA and INS need to sort this situation out because it just does not make sense. Unless various licensing bureaus and other such departments across the country will stop requiring an SSN as absolutely necessary SSA needs to make amends to allow SSNs to be given to legal aliens who do not otherwise qualify for them through work authorization.

As I understand it the only way for the AL board of nursing to have waived their requirement was for the attorney general of the state, who made the rule in the first place, to go back on it. Good freaking luck.

Unfortunately I'm almost totally positive than an H4 holder does not qualify for an SSN. One route that you have of course is to get a greencard and file your wife as derivative status. Once she receives her EAD (employment authorization document), she can then file. If your employment requires a labor certification that is needed first. It takes at least a year, but once you have that you can file for your greencard and the EAD will be in your hands 2-3 months after that.

A good forums for you is at Grasmick.com Click on the forums on the left and post away. It caters specifically to Canadians and you should have a response within a day most likely.

Skoorb,

Thanks for the response. This is what I am worried about. I plan on going to the SSA office tomorrow to see if they will make an exception for my wife and I. If not, I will be visiting my local congressman.

This is a major issue because a lot of American services will not touch you if you don't have a SSN even though you are fully legal.

I talked to a couple of representatives at SSA and they were pretty sure that the biggest reason the change was made not to give SSNs out to non-working aliens was because they were running out of numbers. Either way, they have made a very bad situation.
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Well that's a damn silly reason if it's true - and anything those SSA lemmings tell you probably isn't - they will obviously run out of SSNs someday. No point in prolonging the inevitable.

You may get lucky at the SSA office tomorrow but just make sure you go in there not hoping for much. I didn't know about all of this when we first went in trying to get one for MrsSkoorb and it was a disheartening experience. I did hear of somebody who just kept going in to different offices until his wife was approved, but that was a while ago. Risky and I doubt it would work now since they run an INS check for legality when they give you a number.

I wasn't willing to take the congressman step (because I was about to say fvck this sh*t), but I concluded that it was the next thing for me to do, so goodluck!
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Our predicament was especially outrageous because MrsSkoorb was in AL legally. She wanted to work as a nurse. INS however requires a nursing license in this state BEFORE giving a TN. However, to get a nursing license she needs an SSN. But she cannot get an SSN without a TN. So as you can see it was absolutely impossible for her to get a license, an SSN, or a TN. That's so obviously an oversight caused by incompetence that it boggles the mind. When they were making up the rules nobody brought that point up because there was no good reason for this catch 22 situation to exist.
 

nord1899

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
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Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: ElFenix
i hate blatant misuse of social security numbers like that

Blatant misuse of SSN where?

I hope you are not referring to my thread.

No, the SSN is only supposed to be used by the Fed Gov't to identify people (and I think only for tax purposes). But as it is a unique identifier, companies started using it. Now schools at all levels use the SSN to track people.

Basically, the SSN is being abused by everyone who requires it, except for the feds.
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
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fobot.com
Originally posted by: Garet Jax
Originally posted by: ElFenix
i hate blatant misuse of social security numbers like that

Blatant misuse of SSN where?

I hope you are not referring to my thread.

i think he meant all of the people that require/use the SSN for non Social Security purposes

the SSN isn't supposed to be a national ID number, but it has become the defacto national ID number, which causes all of the problems you pointed out

if all of the non-Social Security Administration agencies/corporations/entities/etc used thier own numbers and didn't ask for the SSN, then everybody would be better off
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
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71
Originally posted by: Skoorb
Our predicament was especially outrageous because MrsSkoorb was in AL legally. She wanted to work as a nurse. INS however requires a nursing license in this state BEFORE giving a TN. However, to get a nursing license she needs an SSN. But she cannot get an SSN without a TN. So as you can see it was absolutely impossible for her to get a license, an SSN, or a TN. That's so obviously an oversight caused by incompetence that it boggles the mind. When they were making up the rules nobody brought that point up because there was no good reason for this catch 22 situation to exist.

Man that's frustrating. You can't get one without the other and nobody was budging. I'm glad you worked it out. :)
 

Garet Jax

Diamond Member
Feb 21, 2000
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nord1899/fObOt,

Now that I reread ElFenix's post, I can see what was probably evident to everyone else immediately. :)

I am probably a little too jumpy on the issue.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. :)
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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Originally posted by: Garet Jax
nord1899/fObOt,

Now that I reread ElFenix's post, I can see what was probably evident to everyone else immediately. :)

I am probably a little too jumpy on the issue.

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. :)
Actually at first read I didn't know what he was talking about until it was pointed out to me then I had to hit myself on the head and go "duh" ! :D