SSD (OCZ Vertex 2) is suddenly not being detected. Boot Device Failure..can't load OS

Discussion in 'Memory and Storage' started by RussianSensation, Apr 10, 2011.

  1. groberts101

    groberts101 Golden Member

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    I think I bought some of the "good batch's" then cause all 8 Sandforce drives I have, work just fine. I did see my buddies Intel drive crap out though so I won't be recommending them to anyone until all those bugs get worked out too.

    And the "bad newegg reviews" thing? That's just too funny!

    Anyone basing personal opinions off a bunch of "newegg experts" opinions needs to learn some new study techniques, in my "expert opinion". In fact, does anyone posting over there actually.. NOT.. have "expert experience levels"? Seems like some may have even migrated over here too. LOL
     
  2. Voo

    Voo Golden Member

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    Well the most reliable numbers we have, show that OCZ's return numbers are just as bad as those of the other manufacterer's (including most HDDs, excluding the high risk 2+tb 7.2krpm models), with the exception of Intel who has a way better reliability than the rest.

    Considering that most people can live with the failure rate of HDDs just fine, I wouldn't say that's much of a problem.


    Although compatibility is a different thing and Intel really shines there (although let's see if that stays true after they outsourced their controllers, I wouldn't bet on it)
     
  3. Dadofamunky

    Dadofamunky Platinum Member

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    Well, looks like I'll stay away from sleep mode for the duration. Too bad, it's really handy sometimes. However, given how fast my system boots up with the C300 I think I can live with the sacrifice.
     
  4. Emulex

    Emulex Diamond Member

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    No its firmware. sandforce sf-12xx is bugged. they won't fix it. think of it like ANDROID phones. The G1 never got 2.x - many phones never got 2.2 or 2.3 - many phones will never get 3.0 - well why spend the money fixing something that they have sold already? they are done. washed their hands made their money.

    That is the company you are buying from. realize it.

    Intel on the other hand fixes their isht.
     
  5. Voo

    Voo Golden Member

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    Yep that TRIM support on their G1's is really working well :p
     
  6. Yellowbeard

    Yellowbeard Golden Member

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    This is not entirely accurate. The primary SF issue is more complex than "they won't fix it".
     
  7. Martimus

    Martimus Diamond Member

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    I have read through this thread three times now, and still haven't seen this mythical 20% RMA rate you are claiming people are saying. What are you talking about?

    Two people have a problem here, and instead of trying to hlep them you blast them for asking for help? ...
     
  8. RussianSensation

    RussianSensation Elite Member

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    Quick boot was disabled already. :D

    Not sure where the 20% RMA stat is based on.

    Here is the data I could find:

    Failure Percentage:
    Intel - 0.59%
    Corsair - 2.17%
    Crucial - 2.25%
    Kingston - 2.39%
    OCZ - 2.93%
     
    #33 RussianSensation, Apr 14, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2011
  9. Yellowbeard

    Yellowbeard Golden Member

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    Interesting numbers but, keep in mind that the retailers do not know "failure" rates. That is a return rate you get from retailers. Actual failure rates are somewhat lower than return rates.
     
  10. VerteVache

    VerteVache Junior Member

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    As I was googling for "OCZ Vertex 2 failures", I landed in this thread.

    So, just a bit of personal feedback. Doesn't mean anything as such, it just one particular case, but yet, it gets me puzzled, and it's quite annoying to say the least.

    I bought two Intel M-25 SSDs to use in a PC and a MacBook, and they both have been running fine for more than a year.

    About 10 months ago I bought an iMac and soon after a OCZ Vertex II 240 GB SSD drive. It cost me nearly 600€. It was expensive, but seen how SSDs improve the computer experience, I thought it was well worth the price.
    As a side note, iMac are not really foreseen for easy drive swapping, as you might imagine (A local Apple technical center was asking 300€ just for swapping the drives...), but after following carefully the instructions on some web site (which involves removing the glass panel in front of the screen with suction cups), I could do it myself. But every drive swap is still a risky and difficult operation, so the less the better.
    After two weeks, booting the iMac failed. I had to swap drives again, tested the drive in several other computers : it was dead. I sent it away and got a new one (I checked serial numbers : it was really a new one). Installed it back in the iMac. A few months later, exactly the same problem. Sent it for RMA, got a new one. Bad luck I thought... Until two weeks ago when the third drive failed. I was so fed up I ordered a new Intel SSD and sent the Vertex to the vendor, with a note that they could keep it to put under the foot of a wobbly table, or whatever. Of course, I guess I will get a fourth one, but what to do with it ? Making a full backup before any shutdown ? Go figure out... Next time I'd better send the money right away to charities.

    I'm sure it only affects a small proportion of drives, but at least the whole batch shipped to France seems unreliable.

    Just my two cents... Thanks for your attention.
     
  11. groberts101

    groberts101 Golden Member

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    is related to the sandforce controller incompatibility and is well known by most these days. many have stated that the newest firmware(1.32) has remedied many mac issues.

    can hardly imagine all the hassle that must have been working on that thing repeatedly.

    as for where to put that replacement drive? most PC's would love you for it. Unless of course they suffer from cold boot or sleep issues that your mac suffered from too? lol

    It's one of those controllers that when it's compatible with the system it works very well. When it doesn't?.. it seems like junk. Is a perspective type of thing, for sure.
     
  12. VerteVache

    VerteVache Junior Member

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    Well, actually you mean there's an incompatibility that makes it so that when used in a Mac, a Vertex 2 just dies ? Because when I pulled them out of the iMac, the two previous ones, I put them in an external enclosure and tried them on my PC (even taking into account that the PC might have issues finding a Mac formatted drive, I used special partition tools just to be sure there was nothing readable). It looked more than dead...

    That would also mean then that when I get my new SSD, I should use it first on a PC, flash the firmware and only then put it in the Mac ? If it's true then you're my saviour !!! (except that I have bought an Intel 320 - I think I read somewhere Vortex II are better - I could swap once again and use the intel as a giant USB key for my car radio :)

    I didn't check for a firmware problem since I couldn't think that would completely kill a drive, that it wouldn't even work on a PC thereafter. Strange things those SSDs

    Could the above-mentioned assumptions be right then ?

    Thanks a lot.
     
  13. groberts101

    groberts101 Golden Member

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    to reiterate a bit more here.. the drives actually go into what's called a "panic locked" mode.

    Contrary to all the ones who think the drives are DOA or junk, this is not a damaged, defective, or "bad drive" in any way as all that's required is to destructive flash the firmware and reset the controller for it to become fully functional again. Well.. at least until your bios or sleep transitions kick it out of you system again. lol

    The underlying issue is the Sandforce controller. Not sure why it locks like that but to many it's the same thing as dead and the end result is an RMA and sour taste from the experience.

    Many have wondered why Sandforce doesn't release a destructive flash too to eliminate the need for RMA. Even OZC's Indilinx based drives have a special d-flash that can be requested to eliminate the RMA altogether so why can't they do the same for Sandforce, right?

    Reason is that Sandforce will not allow end users full access to the drives firmware/controller for security/elimination of reverse engineering and all the typical shrouding of their tech. Kinda ridiculous if you really boil it right down as it ends up being like insurance where we all end up absorbing the extra cost in the long run.

    And yes.. you would need to flash to the latest 1.32 firmware before retrying that drive in the MBP. It will most likely already be flashed to the latest version but you should check to be sure. Personally, since the issues hit laptops the hardest and all the bios compatibility/sleep hassles I still see over at OCZ seem to not be fully fixed?.. I would not even consider revisiting a Sandforce controller for that system. And that's coming from someone who loves these drives... so there's that.
     
    #38 groberts101, Apr 20, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2011
  14. neunelf

    neunelf Junior Member

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    Look at the amount of advertising OCZ does. You don;t think that AT is going to bite the hand that feeds him.

    Look at his comment about OCZ using Spectek flash. AT says it's as good as Micron. If it was as good as Micron it wouldn't be spectek. ROTFLMAO
     
  15. Voo

    Voo Golden Member

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    So you've got any reliable proof where a larger quantity of that flash didn't last its published specs? Because if it reaches its 3k PE cycles and the SSD as a whole its specified performance (and yes we all know the problems every SF vendor had with that in the past; at least OCZ is doing something about that - see same article) there's no valid reason to whine around.

    But ah well, just claiming stuff without any proof whatsoever is more fun, isn't it?
     
    #40 Voo, Apr 21, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2011
  16. pw38

    pw38 Senior member

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    I had a Corsair Force 128 do the same thing. Went with a 80 M-25 from Intel and no issues whatsoever. Performance differences aside I just trust Intel drives more now. My previous 40 V-25 never had any issues.
     
  17. VirtualLarry

    VirtualLarry Lifer

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    SpecTek flash memory? Really? I remember back in the days of PC-100 memory. SpecTek was junk, people looked for "real" Micron memory.
     
  18. Voo

    Voo Golden Member

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    Yeah that memory from exactly the same fabric that is used by Intel is really SO much better. And the specs are really not compareable - oh, stop they are, well lets see: 3k PE cycles vs. 3k PE cycles.

    So do you have anything but FUD on this topic, like well, facts?
     
    #43 Voo, Apr 22, 2011
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2011
  19. flinty09

    flinty09 Junior Member

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    RussianSensation did you ever fix this issue? i just came home and my PC was cooked, giving me that bootmrg cazza. I want to try get the stuff off it, they have offered me a replacement
     
  20. Seero

    Seero Golden Member

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    From the OCZ forum, these are the steps you should take:
    Unplug the drive for an hour or so to let it ran out of battery, reset bios to default setting. (some say reset CMOS too). Boot PC and make sure it is AHCI mode. Recoonnect everything and see if you have the luck.

    If that fails, RMA. If it recongize Sandforce instead of Vertex2, reboot until it sees it as vertex (both hard and soft reboot.)
     
  21. Shmee

    Shmee Moderator <BR> Memory and Storage <BR> Video Cards
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    russian, did you try seeing if the windows reinstall media could detect it/fix it? I once had an issue as follows with my agility 2:

    when transferring to my asus p7x58d premium, from my gigabyte UD5, it would not detect in bios or boot windows for some reason. tried all sorts of bios options, couldnt find a sign of the drive. then, I inserted my win 7 usb stick, and it was able to find the drive, and so I simply resintalled. not sure why it wouldnt detect in bios if it was probably a windows transfer issue, but it seemed to do the trick.
     
  22. semo

    semo Senior member

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    a lot of us have done. If it wasn't for a lot of readers' insistence, Anand would not have (I believe) made a three-page coverage of OCZ *** ups, buried in the V3 120GB review. http://www.anandtech.com/show/4256/the-ocz-vertex-3-review-120gb

    The problem is that OCZ have gotten away with it. Just like MS's recent xbox RROD problem. All forgotten/forgiven.
     
    #47 semo, Jul 24, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2011
  23. VirtualLarry

    VirtualLarry Lifer

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    The FACT is that SpecTek is a "lesser" brand than Micron. Why else would they have created the brand, to sell off their "factory seconds"?

    I mean, if the memory is TRULY the same, then why go to the expense of having two separate brands? Answer - they are NOT truly the same.

    Or are you a believer that there is NO DIFFERENCE between consumer and enterprise HDs? After all, just like SpecTek and Micron, they roll off of the same factories, right?
     
    #48 VirtualLarry, Jul 24, 2011
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2011
  24. Elixer

    Elixer Lifer

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    IIRC, they all get made the same, they just go through different qualification tests. If it fails for the enterprise, it still could be accepted for the consumer brand.
     
  25. semo

    semo Senior member

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    I think the biggest mistake OCZ made was to knowingly sell undersized SSDs and hoping that no one would notice. 25nm V2 drives made around the end of 2010 were a few GB smaller than the same V2 models prior the node shrink.

    OCZ refused to take responsibility by not issuing a mass recall of all affected drives. Reviewers did not take responsibility either by letting the issue go unreported for a long time, as well as not putting more pressure on OCZ (hey, why burn bridges with the hottest SSD brand).

    It is a basic consumer right to know that if a drive is labelled as 60GiB, you will get 60GiB of usable capacity (just like you would expect a carton of milk to contain as much milk as it says on the label). This fiasco was never tackled from this angle and OCZ came out better for it. People are instead concentrating on the technicalities (RAISE, node shrinks, Spectek vs. Micron vs. Hynix, etc...) rather than the real consumer right issue