SSD Implications without AHCI

Discussion in 'Memory and Storage' started by jayhawk1, Aug 31, 2009.

  1. jayhawk1

    jayhawk1 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just ordered an Intel 80GB G2 SSD. My motherboard is an old ASUS A8N-SLI Premium without AHCI support. Will I run into trouble getting TRIM to work with Windows 7?
     
  2. Loading...


  3. fleshconsumed

    fleshconsumed Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    4,714
    Likes Received:
    229
    AFAIK yes. TRIM requires AHCI to work.
     
  4. zagood

    zagood Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    0
  5. VirtualLarry

    VirtualLarry Lifer

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2001
    Messages:
    38,217
    Likes Received:
    1,922
    Why would the command require a certain controller interface type to be implemented? I'm genuinely curious.

     
  6. taltamir

    taltamir Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am assuming you mean on an intel G1?
    you would have to custom create one from scratch... and hack the drive firmware as well which I doubt will be doable...
     
  7. zagood

    zagood Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Messages:
    4,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    I actually meant on a G2 for people that aren't using Win7, or have a non-ahci enabled motherboard like OP.

    But, talk about timing...
    http://forums.anandtech.com/me...=2331208&enterthread=y

    -z
     
  8. jayhawk1

    jayhawk1 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    I really appreciate the responses including some hopeful alternatives. Frankly, this was a bit of a careless lack of research on my part. I know that one choice would be to replace the core parts of my system - motherboard, cpu, memory.
     
  9. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've had this board and it supports AHCI.
     
  10. jayhawk1

    jayhawk1 Junior Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2009
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Old Hippie - I don't see anything in the BIOS or manual for AHCI. Did I overlook the answer? I guess it is obvious you are saying I overlooked something for which I am thankful. If you could give me a hint for the basis of your statement that the A8N-SLI Premium motherboard supports AHCI then I would be appreciative.
     
  11. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    I dunno what to tell ya nor do I recall the BIOS version I was using.

    I had an AHCI option in my BIOS but in may have been under the RAID setting.

    I also seem to remember having to update the chipset driver first.

    I know I had it enabled because drive performance was actually worse with AHCI enabled and I disabled it.

    I don't remember going thru all this hassle but I may have used a driver pack from there.

    Sorry I can't remember more details but that's been many Buds ago. :beer::D

     
  12. taltamir

    taltamir Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    0
    For SINGLE file copy or for multiple concurrent file reads and writes?
     
  13. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    As per whatever the HD testing tools I was using at the time.
     
  14. taltamir

    taltamir Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    0
    so that will be the totally irrelevant "MB/s sequential single file only"
    aka, the figure according to which jmicron drives are the fastest drives in the world :)
     
  15. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    I suppose.

    I used 3 different HD utilities and they all showed the same results.

    I do remember disabling "NCQ" and getting better test results.

    IIRC the NForce4 wasn't the best chipset in the world and I pretty much swore off nvidia for my main MBs.

     
  16. Majic 7

    Majic 7 Senior member

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2008
    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is part of an old review at PC Perspective but it shows the difference between IDE and AHCI on a G1. http://www.pcper.com/article.p...=669&type=expert&pid=3 Doesn't help with the trim but some of the articles I have read say that you can probably get by without it for a while.
     
  17. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    Are you saying I should have left AHCI enabled?
     
  18. taltamir

    taltamir Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    0
    i am saying, try resting and paying careful attention to what is being tested.
    NCQ should be slower on single file sequential, but faster at multiple concurrent files (sequential or random, especially random)... which are what really matters in the end.

    NCQ performance also greatly varies depending on the quality of the firmware in the drive that you use
     
  19. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    So you're saying that the HD testing utilities avaliable for the consumer aren't any good for real world desktop use?
     
  20. ilkhan

    ilkhan Golden Member

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,120
    Likes Received:
    1
    tests that exclusively (or heavily, even) use sequential reads are pretty worthless as a desktop benchmark, yes.
     
  21. taltamir

    taltamir Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    0
    that is EXACTLY what I am saying... and I got that bit from anandtechs recent article about SSDs...
    http://www.anandtech.com/stora...howdoc.aspx?i=3631&p=1

    Not on this page... somewhere in there it said that (IIRC)
     
  22. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK.

    What test(s) would you suggest to simulate a desktop environment and why should your suggestion negate every current test result?

    This should include all the test results that you have quoted in the past for your exalted G2.

     
  23. taltamir

    taltamir Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    0
    follow the testing methology used by anand, or pcper, or someone else who knows their stuff.
    When exactly have i exalted the G2 based on canned benchmarks from "testing suites"?

    The G2 gets great results from the testings done by reviewers... and it gets great results from my real world usage, it is the best PC upgrade i have made in a long time. Not based on any "score", but based on my empirical observations. Of course, its amazing performance as reported by the professionals is why I bought it in the first place.
     
  24. Old Hippie

    Old Hippie Diamond Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Messages:
    6,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let's hear a suggestion for the average consumer so we can compare with the "Big Boys", who BTW, use the same tests as I did.

    Are we gonna compare apples and oranges here?

    Gimme a break....

    Here's you and Our tests are a good mix of synthetic and real-world benchmarks. PCMark, IOMeter, HDTach, HDTune, PC Respective on July 22nd, before your purchase.

    It's clear to anyone that's been here awhile and read your posts that an Intel drive was your choice from reading reviews based on the same tests that I used to confirm that a nvidia4 chipset was slower in AHCI mode than IDE.

    My origional question...
    has been answered by a resounding "NO".

    If that's the case, all HD tests by any review site including this one that use consumer based tests, are suspect and should not be trusted?



     
  25. taltamir

    taltamir Lifer

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2004
    Messages:
    13,578
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  26. jimhsu

    jimhsu Senior member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2009
    Messages:
    703
    Likes Received:
    0
    This needs further explanation.

    The perfect disk benchmark is the one that is exactly identical to your user workload.
    There is no such thing, so we try to emulate one by using a benchmark tool.
    If you regularly copy multi-GB files around or edit uncompressed 2X video, then yes a seq write benchmark closely characterizes your workload. However, normal desktop workloads in offices, in computer games... In most activities is better represented as concurrent random IOs. NCQ improves concurrent random IOs at the expense of seq transfer operations.