SSD for XP SP3?

[stahlhart]

Does anyone have any recommendations on how to go about breathing some new life into an older XP box by kicking the boot partition off of the spindle drive in favor of an SSD?

I keep it around for backup storage, playing older games, and some video capture work (it's got an AIW X800 for this). I don't think it's quite up to scratch for an operating system upgrade, due to its age and lack of memory, but for what I'm using it for XP seems okay. It just takes a long time to boot, C: fragments pretty badly pretty quickly with use -- not sure why -- and running MSE puts quite a burden on it. I don't need blinding speed here, but am thinking that a separate boot/data setup will run a little more efficiently.

I've gathered thus far that I'd need an SSD that does not require trim support, and I've seen some articles mentioning things like disabling prefetch, automatic defragmentation, and write caching.

Are there any particular models currently available that might work better than others? I checked the appropriate section in the FAQ, but can't seem to locate any of these models for sale anywhere -- not looking hard enough?

Thanks in advance for any help...

 

[Coup27]

Firstly, all SSDs now have TRIM support - it just depends if the OS decides to use it, and XP won't. As a result, you will want to buy an SSD which has a toolbox from the manufacturer which among other things will allow you to manually TRIM the drive through the toolbox.

It's a safe bet to assume that this rig only has SATA 3Gbps, so the most suitable drive for you is an Intel 320 series.

Partition alignment is vital with an SSD and XP will botch this. The simplist thing to do is if you have access to a Windows 7 machine is to put the new SSD in it and run the Windows installer and make the partition you want on the SSD and format. Exit the installer, turn the PC off and remove your SSD.

Put the SSD into your XP rig, make sure the BIOS is in AHCI mode and run the installer and install onto the new partition you just made. Now they will be aligned as the Windows 7 installer aligns partitions where as the XP one doesnt.

Once you are in XP, install the latest chipset and IMSM (or hopefully RST drivers from Intel) and also the Intel SSD toolbox. Disable system defrag and never defrag the drive and manually TRIM the drive through the toolbox weekly.

Not sure if XP had prefetch but if it did then disable it. You want to leave write-caching on.

Edit: Will he need an F6 driver to install XP in AHCI mode? (waits for someone else)

 

[stahlhart]

Firstly, all SSDs now have TRIM support - it just depends if the OS decides to use it, and XP won't. As a result, you will want to buy an SSD which has a toolbox from the manufacturer which among other things will allow you to manually TRIM the drive through the toolbox.

It's a safe bet to assume that this rig only has SATA 3Gbps, so the most suitable drive for you is an Intel 320 series.

Partition alignment is vital with an SSD and XP will botch this. The simplist thing to do is if you have access to a Windows 7 machine is to put the new SSD in it and run the Windows installer and make the partition you want on the SSD and format. Exit the installer, turn the PC off and remove your SSD.

Put the SSD into your XP rig, make sure the BIOS is in AHCI mode and run the installer and install onto the new partition you just made. Now they will be aligned as the Windows 7 installer aligns partitions where as the XP one doesnt.

Once you are in XP, install the latest chipset and IMSM (or hopefully RST drivers from Intel) and also the Intel SSD toolbox. Disable system defrag and never defrag the drive and manually TRIM the drive through the toolbox weekly.

Not sure if XP had prefetch but if it did then disable it. You want to leave write-caching on.

Edit: Will he need an F6 driver to install XP in AHCI mode? (waits for someone else)

Thanks much for the response -- I'm going to assume that this motherboard is too old to support AHCI (2003 vintage), and that I'm going to need to run the drive in IDE mode, if that's possible. I don't see the option in the board's BIOS.

 

[Coup27]

In that case then you're set.

Out of interest, what CPU, Mobo and RAM is it?

 

[Revolution 11]

Coup, I have a question too. What if you don't need a partition on a SSD for XP (the whole drive will be used). You still have to do the Win 7 partition alignment step?

 

[Coup27]

I think you've misunderstood partitions and unallocated space.

A brand new drive from an etailer will come completely blank, it will have no partitions on it and the whole thing will be 'unallocated space'. You cannot install or use this disk until you put a partition on it. If you want to use the whole disk, you still need to have a partition on it, you just make it the entire size of the disk.

So in your case, yes you will need the Windows 7 installer (or disk management from withing Windows 7) to make a single partition which will be the size of the SSD. From there you go into the XP installer and use the option "leave file system intact" i think its worded and just install onto your single partition.

 

[paperwastage]

Firstly, all SSDs now have TRIM support - it just depends if the OS decides to use it, and XP won't. As a result, you will want to buy an SSD which has a toolbox from the manufacturer which among other things will allow you to manually TRIM the drive through the toolbox.

not unless the SSD itself doesn't use TRIM for garbage collection

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/02/kingston-debuts-96gb-ssdnow-v-100-solid-state-drive-complete-wi/

Thankfully for you dual-boot users, the garbage collection scheme operates independently from the OS -- in other words, it works with both modern, TRIM-supporting systems such as Windows 7, as well as older legacy OS' such as Windows Vista and XP that do not support TRIM.

// reason why I put this in a macbook pro..

not sure if you value a "hands-off" approach vs the loss in speed due how the built-in-GC works... SATA 2 speeds, so there's no "loss" in putting this drive in an older system

got mine for ~ $100 after rebate...(~$1/GB)

 

[stahlhart]

In that case then you're set.

Out of interest, what CPU, Mobo and RAM is it?

It's an XP2500+ on an Asrock K7S8XE+ motherboard, and 1Gb of Crucial RAM (2 x 512Kb), pretty much an old budget build. I thought that mabye a 60Gb SSD with pedestrian performance specs (since it's going to be running in IDE mode anyway) would work better for the OS than the HDD has been, but might still be cheaper than a complete CPU/RAM/mobo upgrade. I'd more than likely just live with it as it is if it got to that point.

It still runs pretty decent for the most part -- only when there's operating system disk access is when the bottleneck shows up, for what I'm using it for.

 

[stahlhart]

not unless the SSD itself doesn't use TRIM for garbage collection

http://www.engadget.com/2010/11/02/kingston-debuts-96gb-ssdnow-v-100-solid-state-drive-complete-wi/



// reason why I put this in a macbook pro..

not sure if you value a "hands-off" approach vs the loss in speed due how the built-in-GC works... SATA 2 speeds, so there's no "loss" in putting this drive in an older system

got mine for ~ $100 after rebate...(~$1/GB)

I think that this is more or less what I'm looking for, the 64Gb version -- though I'll probably wait for the price to come down a little (if I can't get that rebate deal you did ). Thanks much for the heads-up... Newegg's price is real close to my target.

 

[paperwastage]

try to get the v+100, not the v100..

+ is newer, better speeds

EDIT I haven't kept up with new SSD tech... but it looks like the V200 is this year's version of the V+100 (released just this month)... time for me to look at the specs as well, and make sure it still have the built-in GC instead of TRIM
EDIT2: looks like it HAS TRIM support... dunno about the built-in GC, trying to find reviews

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5081/kingston-releases-ssdnow-v200-series

85 after rebate (rebate appears in your cart)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820139949

 

[boochi]

If you don't have a Windows 7 disc to create an aligned partition you can download a free gparted iso that can easily take care of that for you.

http://gparted.sourceforge.net/download.php

 

[stahlhart]

If you don't have a Windows 7 disc to create an aligned partition you can download a free gparted iso that can easily take care of that for you.

http://gparted.sourceforge.net/download.php

I do, but this looks like it will come in handy for the data migration process -- I'll need to move two partitions from the HDD to the SSD. Thanks very much for the info...

 

[stahlhart]

try to get the v+100, not the v100..

+ is newer, better speeds

EDIT I haven't kept up with new SSD tech... but it looks like the V200 is this year's version of the V+100 (released just this month)... time for me to look at the specs as well, and make sure it still have the built-in GC instead of TRIM
EDIT2: looks like it HAS TRIM support... dunno about the built-in GC, trying to find reviews

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5081/kingston-releases-ssdnow-v200-series

85 after rebate (rebate appears in your cart)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820139949

This looks great, if it does! I'll look for them also.

edit: searches seem to keep pointing me back at the V+100 for GC... can't pin it down definitely for the V200 anywhere I've looked so far.

 

[Old Hippie]

dunno about the built-in GC, trying to find reviews

It's pretty easy to remember....ALL SSDs have built-in GC.

Every single one.

 

[Old Hippie]

It's an XP2500+ on an Asrock K7S8XE+ motherboard,

It's got an SiS chipset which doesn't support AHCI.

Bummer!

 

[paperwastage]

It's pretty easy to remember....ALL SSDs have built-in GC.

Every single one.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4010/kingston-ssdnow-v-plus-100-review

yes, but as the anandtech link above shows, the V100/V+100 series do aggressive GC and makes the drive act like "new" all the time, at the expense of slower read times and more wear. would the V200 do less aggressive GC since it has TRIM(even if the system doesn't support TRM?)


anyways, the 64GB V100 is on Staples.. really cheap after rebates and coupons, like $40 ... @OP, I'd go for it
http://slickdeals.net/forums/showthread.php?t=3625884

 

[Old Hippie]

would the V200 do less aggressive GC since it has TRIM(even if the system doesn't support TRM?)

I have no idea but even if it's not that aggressive 20% extra free space would make it a moot point.

 

[taltamir]

Now they will be aligned as the Windows 7 installer aligns partitions where as the XP one doesnt.

Your instructions are correct. But just a note here, every partition is aligned to something. Its not that XP doesn't align, it is just aligning incorrectly.
It is making assumptions that are simply not true for an SSD or a 4K sector drives (which are also incorrectly aligned in XP)

 

[stahlhart]

Thanks, everyone, for the feedback and help. I'll more than likely roll the dice on the Kingston drive. I was looking at the 64Gb model, as I have about 31Gb or so of boot drive data, and figured that leaving 50% unused would be safe.

On a side note, I knocked about 5C off of the operating temps by moving the build into an Antec 300 -- they were on sale for $35 at MC; really nice case for the money. That just got me thinking about what other improvements I could make.

 

[blckgrffn]

An SSD is such a good move for a system! That Intel 80GB at NewEgg for $80 + $10 giftcard is pretty attractive - especially if you buy that $20 for $40 Google Offer coupon! You just need to be able to stomach the big rebate.

I would say to buy as much space as your pocket book allows - you need to keep at least 10% free space from what I can tell.

Of course I use a 40GB Intel for my boot drive w/W7, so...