Spy Agencies Say Iraq War Worsens Terror Threat

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: alchemize
Isn't this the same report that Bush relied upon for Iraq WMD's? So I guess the Dems say the NIE is a valid report and Bush didn't lie? Can't really have both can you?

Even if that was true (and it's not), my worldview allows for a report to get some things right and some things wrong.

 

[Rainsford]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: DealMonkey
Nah, I place the blame firmly where it belongs: Bush, his neo-con advisers and administration members, Rumsfeld, and then the gung-ho, pro-war yahoos like you.

I could really do without war... completely.

However, when we are in one, it really would nice to have a country that allows us to fight it until we actually win it; and one that allows the military to fight it as they see fit without 24/7 interference and intervention! The populace and politicians have been forcing us to suffer through half-fought wars for over 40 years, and it pisses me off. In fact, it angers me even more than our irrational cowardly enemies do. Doesnt that say something about the collective caliber of our populace and policians?

period.

And you people spend more time whining about how bad everything is than brainstorming realistic solutions to the situation. I still haven't seen one damn opposition leader come forward with a well thought out plan for peace in Iraq. not ONE!

So guess what, I think I'll stick with the 5-10 year plan that Bush has already begun, keep fighting them, and pray that the Iraqi security services can get their sh*t together within 10 years. That sounds fine to me, and I'm willing to serve until it's done.

kkthx

Oh good, a faith based long term strategic plan...you Republicans really know what it takes to win! Did they teach you that in your military training, or is it just something righties "know"? :roll:

See, this is the problem, the country didn't stay unified behind the war because it is being run by a bunch of morons. If you'll recall, the country was VERY united by the idea of fighting terrorists, even fairly unified behind invading Iraq. But instead of getting in there are doing what was necessary to win, Bush and Co. half-assed it from day-one, thinking that they could just fly Bush out to a carrier, declare "Mission Accomplished" and be done with it. Shockingly enough, this is one problem their rhetoric couldn't solve, and now we have a problem. You'll pardon me for not having the faith in Bush's "plan" that you do, but here on planet Earth, we need some kind of actual PLAN to either win or leave. Since no one on either side seems to have a plan for the former option, I guess it's down to the latter. Don't complain about it, Bush had his chance, and if he had done things properly, we'd either be out of Iraq by now or the country would be united behind getting things done. But Bush bungled it, and we're STILL just left with some vague bullshit about "staying the course"...and I'm clearly not the only one who noticed that the course isn't really working out so well.

Here's the deal, when you first start out doing something like this, I think it's reasonable to complain if people aren't behind it...but when you have spent the last several years just fvcking everything up, you sort of lose your moral high ground to complain that everyone isn't behind you. It's like Bush has driven my car off the road and into a ditch and spent the last few hours just digging it deeper. You'll forgive me if I'm not too wild about the idea of him continuing to try and get it out.

You want to bitch about "half-fought" wars...fine by me, but let's start with the fact that we've spent the last 40 years getting INTO stupid ass wars in the first place, and doing a terrible job when we get there. Conservatives seem to look back fondly on WWII, but they seem to be missing the fact that it's not just the population as a whole that's changed, war just isn't what it used to be any more either. WWII was a very necessary conflict to save our country and the rest of the free world from certain destruction or occupation, tell me what the fvck was so important about Vietnam that it was worth expending even ONE American life for? You want to avoid "half fought" wars, how about we stop getting into them in the first place.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: alchemize
Isn't this the same report that Bush relied upon for Iraq WMD's? So I guess the Dems say the NIE is a valid report and Bush didn't lie? Can't really have both can you?

Even if that was true (and it's not), my worldview allows for a report to get some things right and some things wrong.

does your worldview allow for Presidents, or entire administrations, to do the same?

 

[DealMonkey]

nm

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Termagant
So how will the Sunnis get access to oil revenue? They will never agree to a plan like that if they are cut out of the oil game, as they geographically are.

The oil revenue would be totaled for Iraq as a whole, then the federal government can remove the funds they need to pay for federal projects and expenses, and finally all 3 virtual partitions (we can call them "states" if that makes it easier) receive an even split of the remaining funds to pay for state-specific projects and expenditures.

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: ProfJohn
So we should pull a Vietnam and hand the terrorists a victory and then cross our fingers and hope that some how Iraq can solve its own problems and the terrorists don't take over or Iran doesn't take over... hmmmm not sure I agree

Too late to avoid a Vietnam. In that war, our President and his adminstration led us into a war based on lies... just as the Bushwhackos did in this one. What makes absolutely no sense is to trust the criminal assholes that put us there to get us out. :thumbsdown: :| :thumbsdown:

To bad we can't go back in time and just not invade Iraq in the first place, but since we are there we have to win.

Assuming we even define what "winning" is under the current situation, assming we can win takes more ego than I'd be willing to venture.

ProfJohn -- Your reality check bounced a long time ago. Go home and practice.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: alchemize
Isn't this the same report that Bush relied upon for Iraq WMD's? So I guess the Dems say the NIE is a valid report and Bush didn't lie? Can't really have both can you?

Typical Limbaught mentality. Take two disparate reports and try to equate them.

1) The NIE surrounding the push to invade Iraq was stripped of qualifications and doubts and alternative uses re: the WMDs. This has been known pubicly for a very long time. Have you already forgotten your recent history? Sad.

2) This NIE has been kept from the public eye for 5 months. Why is that, eh? Because it speaks to the truth. The truth which this completely incompetent and criminal administration wants to keep hidden.

Bush playing with intelligence again . . .

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- An angry President Bush Tuesday said he would declassify an intelligence document that reportedly finds that the Iraq war increased the terrorist threat to the United States, saying the American people should come to their own conclusions.

The president said the media accounts of the leak was meant to "create confusion in the minds of the American people" and suggested that the report had been leaked for political purposes.

Is it just me . . . but didn't the previous NIE and 'official' leaks create confusion (if not clearly mislead) the American people?

On Monday evening, the Negroponte rejected the argument that the Iraq war had increased the terrorist threat against the United States.

Negroponte conceded that Iraq had become a training ground for a new generation of jihadists.

But he said the report doesn't "really talk about" the U.S.-directed threat, according to The Associated Press.

How exactly do these people expect to square this circle?

1) Iraq is the central front in the war on terror.
2) Iraq has become a training ground for a new generation of terrorists.
3) The threat to the US is diminished b/c we are in Iraq? According to Bushistas.
4) The threat to the US isn't really mentionedin the NIE? According to Negroponte.

Somebody is confused . . .

"The best way to protect America is to defeat these killers overseas so we do not have to face them here at home," Bush said.

See #2 . . .

 

[RapidSnail]

AnandTech - 99% liberal, 1% conservative, and a whole bunch of atheists.

 

[umbrella39]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
AnandTech - 99% liberal, 1% conservative, and a whole bunch of atheists.

Go back to OT. This forum is far too advanced for you.

 

[BaliBabyDoc]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
AnandTech - 99% liberal, 1% conservative, and a whole bunch of atheists.

Before you leave . . . why would political or religious affiliation have any bearing as to whether our excellent adventure in Iraq has worsened the terror threat?

1) More terrorists . . . maybe.
2) More public (international) outrage at US policies . . . definitely.
3) NEW breeding and training ground for terrorists in Iraq . . . definitely.
4) US public itching for an exit strategy . . . definitely.
5) Bush Regime have an exit strategy . . . does hopes and dreams count?
6) Afghanistan at best a failed state in evolution . . . probably.
7) Opium funding insurgents/Taliban/warlords . . . yep.
8) Record poppy crop . . . 4 years and counting.
9) Karzai the mayor of Kabul . . . 3 years and counting.
10) Bush Regime have an exit strategy . . . pawn it to NATO and tell the American public 'nothing to see here but democracy in action . . . '

 

[DealMonkey]

Welp, the shrub is all pissed off.

Bush to declassify parts of leaked intelligence report
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- An angry President Bush Tuesday said he would declassify an intelligence document that reportedly finds that the Iraq war increased the terrorist threat to the United States.

Hmmmm, I wonder if the Administration can get all the "bad" stuff redacted in time?

 

[Harvey]

Originally posted by: RapidSnail
AnandTech - 99% liberal, 1% conservative, and a whole bunch of atheists.

I think your stats are a little off, but I'm proud to be one of those you describe. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Now, why don't you squeeze that infantile brain of yours to see if you can tell us what being a "liberal" or an atheist has to do with the fact of Bush's incompetence and criminality?

Here, little boy. You need these...