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Sprint- I am about to enter my final form in dealing with the.

Hayabusa Rider

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Four phones were upgraded with some increase in rental charges. I knew that. I was guaranteed that my old date plan would remain. Fine. My charges just went up 150 bucks the next month from what it should have been. I'm on hold with first level support who I did the courtesy of informing that our conversation is being recorded. He said I couldn't do that and I read him the friggin NY law verbatim.

Now I'm at escalated level service and I read to them the riot act and told them that if not satisfied I will end the contract to which they replied that I'd be subject to substantial penalties in the thousands or so as I just upgraded phones and that is in the lease.

No, don't try that, ever. I then explained that the lease does not apply when they breach the contract and if they did not cooperate or did not let me walk away without penalty of any kind I would report this to every NY and Federal agency I can find and then take them to court to not only seek reimbursement but a substantial penalty. Right now were escalating the escalated call to escalated and skipped one to escalated escalated escalated escalated management level. I told them to call the Board if needed.

Bottom line- I'm getting a call back in a few days from top-level senior management (or so they say). In the meantime I'm going to spend some time becoming a legal expert to the best of my ability, finding federal and state laws and precedents and let them know that fuckery is off the table.

😀
 
Exactly why I do my best to buy unlocked phones cash. Once they get you locked in that's when they get bad. If it makes you feel any better the same happened to me on T-Mobile. Only difference was that we had no contract and our phones were both unlocked. We just cancelled and went to AT&T. I pay more but my service is better and my bill is the amount I agreed upon.
 
It's odd how dreadful firms in the communications business are at communicating.

Drives me crazy when I have to go through hours on hold and multiple levels of phone menu hell, followed by offshore-call-centre minions following scripts (with no authority to actually do anything) to get to speak to a human with authority.

It's two-pronged - they replace humans with robots, and then force their remaining human employees to act _as if_ they were robots (probably on pain of being fired if they ever deviate from the prescribed algorithm)

You only get to speak to a human being being human if you are out-of-contract and they want to sign you up again. Then suddenly all the disempowered people disappear and you find yourself talking to a fluent English speaker with authority to actually do things.
 
Hayabusa Rider said:
Four phones were upgraded with some increase in rental charges. I knew that. I was guaranteed that my old date plan would remain. Fine. My charges just went up 150 bucks the next month from what it should have been. I'm on hold with first level support who I did the courtesy of informing that our conversation is being recorded. He said I couldn't do that and I read him the friggin NY law verbatim.

Now I'm at escalated level service and I read to them the riot act and told them that if not satisfied I will end the contract to which they replied that I'd be subject to substantial penalties in the thousands or so as I just upgraded phones and that is in the lease.

No, don't try that, ever. I then explained that the lease does not apply when they breach the contract and if they did not cooperate or did not let me walk away without penalty of any kind I would report this to every NY and Federal agency I can find and then take them to court to not only seek reimbursement but a substantial penalty. Right now were escalating the escalated call to escalated and skipped one to escalated escalated escalated escalated management level. I told them to call the Board if needed.

Bottom line- I'm getting a call back in a few days from top-level senior management (or so they say). In the meantime I'm going to spend some time becoming a legal expert to the best of my ability, finding federal and state laws and precedents and let them know that fuckery is off the table.

😀
Click to expand...
That's why I always take detailed, time and date stamped notes in these cases, also asking for the name, call center location and employee # of the rep I'm talking with.

Because, when there's a discrepancy, they always want to cast doubt on your understanding of the terms you agreed with, "Who did you speak with? Who told you that?"

It at least helps when you can respond, "Well Jeremy from your Ogden, Utah office, employee# 7652, told me that in detail that I confirmed with him three separate times, starting at 8:38 pm on July 7th. The convo ended at 8:52pm. And I re-confirmed every detail with Bob, emp# 4774, at 6:54pm on July 9th.

It also helps to be firm and unwavering and patient and to never try to make an enemy of whomever you're speaking to. Speak to them as if they're an ally who, of course, understands your side.

People skillz, you must haz dem.

And as you outlined, never take "no" or "we can't do that." At such junctures, it is always, "Please let me speak to your immediate superior." ESCALATE, ESCALATE, ESCALATE.

Many here love video games. On a remuneration per hour basis, many of these battles don't yield even the equivalent of minimum wage, but I view them as a challenge and a hobby, my game of choice, if you will.

But, mostly, it just pisses me off when the weasels try to take a weasel bite out of my hard earned dough. So I go to war. But I do so as intelligently and as well armed as possible.
 
Perknose said:
But, mostly, it just pisses me off when the weasels try to take a weasel bite out of my hard earned dough. So I go to war. But I do so as intelligently and as well armed as possible.
Click to expand...

A trick is to not scream and make an enemy as you know but I have limited tolerance when it is presumed that a sucker is on the line. Putting the reps on notice that I was recording them (absolutely my right in NY) so there was no he said/she said scenario possible gave them a clue as well as cutting to the chase as well as not being diverted by irrelevancies. I did speak in a clear slow and firm tone and explained what they had to do and gave them options and explained the consequences. I think you know me well enough that I like being accommodating but being screwed is not happening.
 
Bought a call recorder for my customers. Have never used it for them but ATT, Verizon, Atlantic broadband, medical....every time. Lying bastards.

Took 6 calls to get ATT to release my # so I could VOIP with someone else.

1 party state.
 
s0me0nesmind1 said:
Cell phone companies and cable companies always have these in common:

1. They will at random get your billing/contract wrong.
2. It will only ever be wrong in the sense that it's in their favor.
Click to expand...

Cincinnati bell sent me $20 over payment reimbursement checks every month for about 8 months one time. Kicker was I had cancelled the line and wasn't paying anything. I don't recall they ever owed me $20 in the first place either but they might have.
 
Yeah, have fun with that OP. Don't be surprised if you constantly have to call in to get them to fix things after they do it for a month but it resets because they figure you're either going to get tired of it and just pony up, or that you'll move to another carrier (and then they'll ding you with early termination fees and everything which they'll probably do anyway after shunting you and "fixing" it for a month after which you'll be past being able to get a full refund).

Perknose said:
Would you kindly share the details of both of your deals?
Click to expand...

I'm guessing he bought the phone used and that's the standard intro offer from Mint Mobile right now.

https://www.mintmobile.com/product/03-month-small-sim-card-plan/
 
Good luck ever suing in a court if it doesn't go your way. Your contract probably had an arbitration agreement in it. Thanks SCOTUS for effectively legalizing large scale theft, as long as it's a company stealing relatively little from a whole lot of people.
 
darkswordsman17 said:
Yeah, have fun with that OP. Don't be surprised if you constantly have to call in to get them to fix things after they do it for a month but it resets because they figure you're either going to get tired of it and just pony up, or that you'll move to another carrier (and then they'll ding you with early termination fees and everything which they'll probably do anyway after shunting you and "fixing" it for a month after which you'll be past being able to get a full refund).



I'm guessing he bought the phone used and that's the standard intro offer from Mint Mobile right now.

https://www.mintmobile.com/product/03-month-small-sim-card-plan/
Click to expand...
Yeah, that $15/mo Mint price is a pre-paid 3 month teaser, after which it goes up to $25/mo. The S9 price is exceptionally good for a refurb, though.
 
Brainonska511 said:
Good luck ever suing in a court if it doesn't go your way. Your contract probably had an arbitration agreement in it. Thanks SCOTUS for effectively legalizing large scale theft, as long as it's a company stealing relatively little from a whole lot of people.
Click to expand...

I though arbitration was a good thing in cases like this. Its something you can file yourself but it still costs companies a lot of money to defend with lawyers so if the amounts small they tend to settle.
 
darkswordsman17 said:
Yeah, have fun with that OP. Don't be surprised if you constantly have to call in to get them to fix things after they do it for a month but it resets because they figure you're either going to get tired of it and just pony up, or that you'll move to another carrier (and then they'll ding you with early termination fees and everything which they'll probably do anyway after shunting you and "fixing" it for a month after which you'll be past being able to get a full refund).
Click to expand...
I've had this issue "fixed" twice and now I'm recording the conversations for court if necessary. We are small fish but we can sometimes slip the hook they set.
 
skull said:
I though arbitration was a good thing in cases like this. Its something you can file yourself but it still costs companies a lot of money to defend with lawyers so if the amounts small they tend to settle.
Click to expand...
Binding arbitration is generally a bad thing overall for consumers, because the companies are the ones setting the arbitration terms and the arbitrators are inherently biased to the people that consistently hire them (the companies). It also keeps you from filing in small claims court or going after them with a class-action if they are doing the same thing to a lot of people. In the end, arbitration makes the barrier to resolving a claim higher and it is more likely to end up in the company's favor.

You should really read the NYTimes series on arbitration:
Part 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/...-everywhere-stacking-the-deck-of-justice.html
Part 2: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/...on-a-privatization-of-the-justice-system.html
Part 3: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/...arbitration-scripture-is-the-rule-of-law.html
Some arbitration stats: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/30/business/dealbook/arbitration-trends.html
 
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Hayabusa Rider said:
I've had this issue "fixed" twice and now I'm recording the conversations for court if necessary. We are small fish but we can sometimes slip the hook they set.
Click to expand...

That sucks. Good luck on that! (Not being facetious, really, good luck, hope you can legally tell them to fuck off.)

Its why I was apprehensive about going from prepaid MVNOs to an actual carrier, but T-Mobile has been decent (aside from when we got hit with charge for extra free optional "actually unlimited" thing that we told the guy we didn't want knowing we'd probably get billed for it but he added it anyway and yep got dinged but they got the charge removed immediately and its been an actual flat amount we signed up for since). Its also why, even though there's some decent deals, I'm probably going to buy our next phones outright and just drop in our SIM cards since I'm fairly certain that if we do it through T-Mobile it'll alter our plan and I don't trust any of the stores (too many horror stories of people buying phones through T-Mobile stores).
 
Brainonska511 said:
Binding arbitration is generally a bad thing overall for consumers, because the companies are the ones setting the arbitration terms and the arbitrators are inherently biased to the people that consistently hire them (the companies). It also keeps you from filing in small claims court or going after them with a class-action if they are doing the same thing to a lot of people. In the end, arbitration makes the barrier to resolving a claim higher and it is more likely to end up in the company's favor.

You should really read the NYTimes series on arbitration:
Part 1: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/01/...-everywhere-stacking-the-deck-of-justice.html
Part 2: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/02/...on-a-privatization-of-the-justice-system.html
Part 3: https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/03/...arbitration-scripture-is-the-rule-of-law.html
Some arbitration stats: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/30/business/dealbook/arbitration-trends.html
Click to expand...

Yep, this arbitration garbage is definitely bullshit and I can't believe it was ever allowed without clear consent and even then it should require multiple independent arbiters for a consensus.
 
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