Spreadsheet Programs blamed for Economic Crisis and other Ills

[Zepper]

It has now been 30 years since the introduction of VisiCalc, the first widely available spreadsheet program. In honor of that, John Dvorak took the time to point out how the proliferation of them and their "what if" scenarios, may have largely contributed to where we find ourselves today.

Here's the link:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2338796,00.asp

I tend to agree that corporate executives need to be "big picture" types while the bean counters are likely to be quite detail oriented - seldom do those two characteristics exist in the same individual. The fine-focus types can get so obsessed with some minutia or other to the complete exclusion of the possibility of any broad perspective.
. Anyway, I enjoyed reading it and above is a link so that you can enjoy it as well.

I took the time to familiarize myself with several Spreadsheet programs over the years. Now wondering whether that might have been a waste of time. OTOH, I was able to apply those skills to several technical projects in which there was no "what if" involved - perhaps not a total waste after all.

Enjoy,

.bh.

PS: Even though this has a political bent, perhaps it belongs in the "Software" section. Feel free to move it there if deemed appropriate. .bh.

 

[fleshconsumed]

What a worthless article.

What it comes down to is author blames one's inability to use the tool and inability to understand its limitations on the tool itself. Worthless.

 

[blackangst1]

OT, but is this the creater of the Dvorak keyboard?

 

[LegendKiller]

What a fucking moron. To relate spreadsheets to the subprime and other problems is stupid. Most of the programs operate off of complicate black-box custom programmed systems that has OUTPUTs to excel, but everything else is calc'd internally. That's nothing more than deduction, not spreadsheets.

As always, Dvorak sucks.

 

[JS80]

lol wow what a fucking idiot who has no idea how anything works.

i want to believe this is a parody piece but 404 sarcasm not found.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller
What a fucking moron. To relate spreadsheets to the subprime and other problems is stupid. Most of the programs operate off of complicate black-box custom programmed systems that has OUTPUTs to excel, but everything else is calc'd internally. That's nothing more than deduction, not spreadsheets.

As always, Dvorak sucks.

and even if it were on spreadsheets (and he would probably argue the black box programs are just glorified spreadsheets) it's the human part that make the assumptions for the drivers.

 

[SMOGZINN]

Originally posted by: Zepper
It has now been 30 years since the introduction of VisiCalc, the first widely available spreadsheet program. In honor of that, John Dvorak took the time to point out how the proliferation of them and their "what if" scenarios, may have largely contributed to where we find ourselves today.

Here's the link:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2338796,00.asp

I tend to agree that corporate executives need to be "big picture" types while the bean counters are likely to be quite detail oriented - seldom do those two characteristics exist in the same individual. The fine-focus types can get so obsessed with some minutia or other to the complete exclusion of the possibility of any broad perspective.
. Anyway, I enjoyed reading it and above is a link so that you can enjoy it as well.

I took the time to familiarize myself with several Spreadsheet programs over the years. Now wondering whether that might have been a waste of time. OTOH, I was able to apply those skills to several technical projects in which there was no "what if" involved - perhaps not a total waste after all.

Enjoy,

.bh.

PS: Even though this has a political bent, perhaps it belongs in the "Software" section. Feel free to move it there if deemed appropriate. .bh.

Spreadsheets are just the latest iteration! I blame the abacus! It is pretty obvious that if it wasn?t for abacuses we would never have come up with such ideas as spreadsheets in the first place!

 

[Zebo]

LOL what a moron. We can now add: Speadsheet causes depressions to Guns cause Murders and Weapons Cause Wars to the tool blamers arsenal.

 

[GroundedSailor]

I can agree with this section:

In fact, the spreadsheet has resulted in the rise of the once-lowly accountant/bean counter to a position of influence?and often the executive suite. How often in years past?the pre-spreadsheet era, that is?did an accountant take over a company? When and why did the CFO become a title? These people, at best, were once known as comptrollers.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
I can agree with this section:

In fact, the spreadsheet has resulted in the rise of the once-lowly accountant/bean counter to a position of influence?and often the executive suite. How often in years past?the pre-spreadsheet era, that is?did an accountant take over a company? When and why did the CFO become a title? These people, at best, were once known as comptrollers.

You think CFOs are accountants?

Comptrollers = Corporate Controller, who still exist.

Since when do accountants run the show?!?!

 

[dphantom]

Originally posted by: SMOGZINN

Originally posted by: Zepper
It has now been 30 years since the introduction of VisiCalc, the first widely available spreadsheet program. In honor of that, John Dvorak took the time to point out how the proliferation of them and their "what if" scenarios, may have largely contributed to where we find ourselves today.

Here's the link:
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2338796,00.asp

I tend to agree that corporate executives need to be "big picture" types while the bean counters are likely to be quite detail oriented - seldom do those two characteristics exist in the same individual. The fine-focus types can get so obsessed with some minutia or other to the complete exclusion of the possibility of any broad perspective.
. Anyway, I enjoyed reading it and above is a link so that you can enjoy it as well.

I took the time to familiarize myself with several Spreadsheet programs over the years. Now wondering whether that might have been a waste of time. OTOH, I was able to apply those skills to several technical projects in which there was no "what if" involved - perhaps not a total waste after all.

Enjoy,

.bh.

PS: Even though this has a political bent, perhaps it belongs in the "Software" section. Feel free to move it there if deemed appropriate. .bh.

Spreadsheets are just the latest iteration! I blame the abacus! It is pretty obvious that if it wasn?t for abacuses we would never have come up with such ideas as spreadsheets in the first place!

Gotta disagree with you. The root of all problems lay with the invention of the number 0 (zero).

 

[NeoV]

CFO's are accountants, not sure what in the hell you are talking about

 

[racolvin]

Dvorak has always been a tool ...

 

[heyheybooboo]

John C. Dvorak? I thought you were dead ...

He does have a point - however limited. 'Cookin' the Books' was around long before spreadsheets and 'what-if'.

 

[StageLeft]

That article is remarkable in that literally every paragraph is pure pig sh*t.

 

[mugs]

Originally posted by: fleshconsumed
What a worthless article.

What it comes down to is author blames one's inability to use the tool and inability to understand its limitations on the tool itself. Worthless.

He's not blaming the tool, he's blaming the misuse of spreadsheets and other financial tools.

 

[Lemon law]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
John C. Dvorak? I thought you were dead ...

He does have a point - however limited. 'Cookin' the Books' was around long before spreadsheets and 'what-if'.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I have to agree, spreadsheets allow rascals to compute fantasies and dream scenarios so much faster and add 99. 44% of extra legitimacy because computers never make simple math errors.

Of course long before this latest article, the rational were pointing to GIGO, which is garbage in, garbage out, but as usual, some writer gets to claim they are the smartest man in the room by repackaging an old idea in a new form.

So join us in a new Jihad against spreadsheets. The root of all evil. No longer should we think of original sin in the form of Eve eating the apple, when reading the spreadsheet is the new high tech way.

 

[GroundedSailor]

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
I can agree with this section:

In fact, the spreadsheet has resulted in the rise of the once-lowly accountant/bean counter to a position of influence?and often the executive suite. How often in years past?the pre-spreadsheet era, that is?did an accountant take over a company? When and why did the CFO become a title? These people, at best, were once known as comptrollers.

You think CFOs are accountants?

Comptrollers = Corporate Controller, who still exist.

Since when do accountants run the show?!?!

Yes, all those number cruncher who end up telling the rest what they can and cannot do. I remember the days when we would tell the bean counters, "This is what we intend to do. You figure out how".

 

[theeedude]

Actually he's not that far off. Look at your average business case, and it's loaded with spreadsheets with bogus/optimistic assumptions made to make data look nice. These are used by investors to (mis) allocate money.

 

[Zedtom]

There are millions of middle management drones whose jobs depend upon them presenting reports at their weekly meetings. They have to come up with something of value or their bosses might start to consider them dead weight.

The database speculation strategy is their salvation. They issue demands for new reports to their staff and order more data to be organized and delivered promptly. Then they can sit back and do "what if?" scenarios in their database programs all day.

 

[LegendKiller]

Originally posted by: Zedtom
There are millions of middle management drones whose jobs depend upon them presenting reports at their weekly meetings. They have to come up with something of value or their bosses might start to consider them dead weight.

The database speculation strategy is their salvation. They issue demands for new reports to their staff and order more data to be organized and delivered promptly. Then they can sit back and do "what if?" scenarios in their database programs all day.

That's never been the case before spreadsheets?

I love how every 20-30 something can come on here and opine how businesses ran before spreadsheets. Or, how Dvorak can do the same when he's probably got no fucking clue about a corporate system, especially with financials of a large bank or financial company.

I'm sure every 20-30 something can just jump in their way-back machine and see how businesses were run.

 

[zephyrprime]

This article is so ridiculous it's boggles the mind. Dvorak is clueless.

 

[Zedtom]

Originally posted by: LegendKiller

Originally posted by: Zedtom
There are millions of middle management drones whose jobs depend upon them presenting reports at their weekly meetings. They have to come up with something of value or their bosses might start to consider them dead weight.

The database speculation strategy is their salvation. They issue demands for new reports to their staff and order more data to be organized and delivered promptly. Then they can sit back and do "what if?" scenarios in their database programs all day.

That's never been the case before spreadsheets?

I love how every 20-30 something can come on here and opine how businesses ran before spreadsheets. Or, how Dvorak can do the same when he's probably got no fucking clue about a corporate system, especially with financials of a large bank or financial company.

I'm sure every 20-30 something can just jump in their way-back machine and see how businesses were run.

Nice rant. I have been doing books since before you were born. I stand by my remarks. The database programs for personal computers are miles beyond working out computations with an adding machine and pencil.

 

[JS80]

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor

Originally posted by: JS80

Originally posted by: GroundedSailor
I can agree with this section:

In fact, the spreadsheet has resulted in the rise of the once-lowly accountant/bean counter to a position of influence?and often the executive suite. How often in years past?the pre-spreadsheet era, that is?did an accountant take over a company? When and why did the CFO become a title? These people, at best, were once known as comptrollers.

You think CFOs are accountants?

Comptrollers = Corporate Controller, who still exist.

Since when do accountants run the show?!?!

Yes, all those number cruncher who end up telling the rest what they can and cannot do. I remember the days when we would tell the bean counters, "This is what we intend to do. You figure out how".

I'd like to understand your faulty perspective. What do you do for a living?

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: Zepper
-snip-
while the bean counters are likely to be quite detail oriented - seldom do those two characteristics exist in the same individual. The fine-focus types can get so obsessed with some minutia or other to the complete exclusion of the possibility of any broad perspective.

That's a mistaken assumption.

Details are important, but for doing anything much beyond the lower-level tasks it's essential you have the 'big picture'. Those in audit or consulting can't even begin to do their jobs without such an understanding.

There are times where I've had a beter understanding of a client's business model etc than the client themselves.

Otherwise I can't agree with this article. He's got too many things factually incorrect.

CEO's were once mostly out of engineering. Accountants, for good reason IMO, then became the favored candidates for that position (accounting was not created to do tax returns or annual finacial statments etc. It was created a couple of thousands of years ago to help manage a business). But by the 80's it shifted to marketing types (and that's when big problems began given their habit of hyping stuff).

The authors acts like accountants are now the CEO's; he's off by a magnitude of decades.

As far as spreedsheets, they are a tool for both accountants and upper management. It's flat out stupid not to plan out all types of senarios (which is what spreadsheets allow us to do, before PC's it was all done manually and therefore too time consuming/expensive to examine so many senarios). Planning = success; spreadsheets are powerful planning tools.

Fern